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  #1  
Old 10-06-2009, 5:24 PM
fd15k fd15k is offline
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Default utility bill copies as proof of residency

Guys,

I've stopped paper bills at some point with my gas and electrical companies, and I was
wondering if FFL's would accept a print out (read a "copy") of such bills as proof of residency.
Anyone tried that ?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2009, 5:37 PM
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We do. It should be fine.

Don't ask here though, ASK YOUR FFL. It's acceptable and legal, but that doesn't mean your FFL will take it, and that's all that matters.
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2009, 5:50 PM
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Mine does it as well. You don't get any other formal mail though? No credit cards, bank statements, etc?
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Old 10-06-2009, 5:50 PM
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It fulfills the requirements for establishing proof of residency, and I suspect most FFLs will accept it.
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2009, 5:51 PM
leelaw leelaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin_5585 View Post
Mine does it as well. You don't get any other formal mail though? No credit cards, bank statements, etc?
None of those are acceptable statements for establishing proof of residency. Neither are cell phone bills.
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Old 10-06-2009, 6:40 PM
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Thanks guys! I will double-check with my favorite FFL
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2009, 6:42 PM
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As easier one perhaps if they get weird about it is if you have a car, truck, or motorcycle. Then you have a current DMV registration.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2009, 6:52 PM
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I'm not a citizen, got to provide 3 months worth of stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by odysseus View Post
As easier one perhaps if they get weird about it is if you have a car, truck, or motorcycle. Then you have a current DMV registration.
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Old 10-06-2009, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leelaw View Post
None of those are acceptable statements for establishing proof of residency. Neither are cell phone bills.
I didn't realize that. I have never had to show more than my CDL to buy though, so that may be why...
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Old 10-06-2009, 7:25 PM
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Doesn't apply to your situation but a letter signed by a parent was enough to be a 2nd proof of residency for me. The car is registered to my father(I drive it tho) and I'm living with my parents at the moment so I don't have any utility bills or lease agreements under my name. The FFL said I have to bring a letter signed by a parent stating how long I've been living at the house and that I pay no utilities and that I would be good to go. All I did was write a statement saying all those things and handed it to my Dad to sign. That was it.

When he said that I actually remarked, "What?! My parents?". And he looked at another guy and said, "Yes...hard to believe, but a signed letter is enough proof in CA". Which is good, no reason why a legal law abiding citizen should be banned from owning a handgun just because his parents provide everything for him >_>
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Old 10-06-2009, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin_5585 View Post
I didn't realize that. I have never had to show more than my CDL to buy though, so that may be why...
You must show proof of residency if you are purchasing a handgun or purchasing a long gun and your actual address no longer matches your DL/ID address.

Otherwise, for non-handgun purchases all you need to show is CDL/CID.
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Old 10-06-2009, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fd15k View Post
I'm not a citizen, got to provide 3 months worth of stuff
If you are a permanent resident, then you will need to show 3 latest consecutive months utility bills as proof of residence if purchasing / transferring any firearm through a CA FFL01.

I am in the same boat as you, and print out the first page of my Edison utility bill every month out of habit habit, just in case I want to make a purchase. My billing is paperless, so I print the bill from online. Never had a FFL say anything about it.

I always ask the FFL to photocopy my copies of the utility bills so I don't have to keep remembering to reprint the bills.
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2009, 9:02 PM
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fyi,

some accept bank statements instead of ubills.
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2009, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnout View Post
fyi,

some accept bank statements instead of ubills.
They shouldn't. Bank statements are not to a physical address, and therefore are not allowed as proof of residency.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2009, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fd15k View Post
I'm not a citizen, got to provide 3 months worth of stuff
The feds care about the 90 days prior, and credit card statements are expressly permitted:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13
An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.
This is also mentioned on the 4473... I think it's in the help section for 20(c), but I'm probably wrong about the exact number.

-- Michael
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  #16  
Old 10-07-2009, 5:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
The feds care about the 90 days prior, and credit card statements are expressly permitted:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13
An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.
This is also mentioned on the 4473... I think it's in the help section for 20(c), but I'm probably wrong about the exact number.

-- Michael
Form 4473 instructions for Line 20c:

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Sale of Firearms to Legal Aliens:

...Acceptable documentation to prove 90-day continuous residency must be original documentation (e.g. utility bills, current bank statements, rent receipts, mortgage payments, lease agreements, personal property tax bills documents issued by by Federal, State, or local government agencies, first-class mail issued by government agency, insurance policies, or bill with current address or major credit card bill).
Interestingly, for legal aliens, as long as the proof offered is the original documentation, items that are not acceptable for citizens are acceptable for aliens.
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2009, 6:17 AM
fd15k fd15k is offline
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Yeah, and there is that "original documentation", which kind of relates
to my original question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
Form 4473 instructions for Line 20c:



Interestingly, for legal aliens, as long as the proof offered is the original documentation, items that are not acceptable for citizens are acceptable for aliens.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fd15k View Post
Yeah, and there is that "original documentation", which kind of relates
to my original question...
Interestingly, "original documentation" only appears in the context of required proof for legal aliens.

The online bills look pretty much like the paper bill you would have gotten, doesn't it? Should be OK.

I've accepted them.
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:23 PM
fd15k fd15k is offline
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Content looks the same, but the bills sent by LADWP and SocalGas were on colored (green
and blue respectively) special paper, so visually they would look very different...

Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
Interestingly, "original documentation" only appears in the context of required proof for legal aliens.

The online bills look pretty much like the paper bill you would have gotten, doesn't it? Should be OK.

I've accepted them.
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  #20  
Old 10-07-2009, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fd15k View Post
Content looks the same, but the bills sent by LADWP and SocalGas were on colored (green
and blue respectively) special paper, so visually they would look very different...
I should have said I've accepted computer print-outs for citizen's POR because the were just .pdf copies of the hard copy that would have come in the mail.

I would not be able to accept them for legal alien documentation because of the "original documentation" requirement.

The OP is not asking about alien documentation requirements though.
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2009, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekker View Post
Doesn't apply to your situation but a letter signed by a parent was enough to be a 2nd proof of residency for me. The car is registered to my father(I drive it tho) and I'm living with my parents at the moment so I don't have any utility bills or lease agreements under my name. The FFL said I have to bring a letter signed by a parent stating how long I've been living at the house and that I pay no utilities and that I would be good to go. All I did was write a statement saying all those things and handed it to my Dad to sign. That was it.

When he said that I actually remarked, "What?! My parents?". And he looked at another guy and said, "Yes...hard to believe, but a signed letter is enough proof in CA". Which is good, no reason why a legal law abiding citizen should be banned from owning a handgun just because his parents provide everything for him >_>
Next time I buy a handgun at Rettings, I'll bring a note from my 86-year old mother. That'll have them rolling on the floor.
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