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| Hunting and Fishing Rifle, Shotgun, Handgun, Archery, Blackpowder Saltwater and Fresh Water |
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#1
09-30-2009, 4:58 PM
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Distance from road to shoot...
This is a fun one, and really there is no code that I could find that states a minimum distance from the road to shoot in an otherwise legal area to shoot/hunt.
PC374(c) Every person who shoots any firearm from or upon a public road or highway is guilty of a misdemeanor. This seems very ambiguous to me. Does anyone have more information or case law on this? My friends and I were talking about this, mostly related to hunting issues, and I'm sure if you ask your buddies you'll hear a lot of different responses...How far do you have be off the road to drop a deer, beer, whatever??? Most people will probably answer with 150 yards because that is the "safe area" for buildings, dwellings, etc... I've had 4 different game wardens give me 4 different answers. In addition, these same game wardens gave different opinions on various subjects, like carrying firearms through a state game refuge, shooting across the road, etc... I'm not bashing on game wardens, I've had nothing but positive encounters with them...but it's a sad state of affairs when we have so many codes on the books that the guys enforcing them can't even keep up! 
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#2
09-30-2009, 5:07 PM
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I just assumed you had to step off it, even if it's just a couple paces. Also, if you're hunting you can't carry a loaded firearm on a road.
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#3
09-30-2009, 5:28 PM
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3004. (a) It is unlawful for any person, other than the owner, person in possession of the premises, or a person having the express permission of the owner or person in possession of the premises, to hunt or to discharge while hunting, any firearm or other deadly weapon within 150 yards of any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding used in connection therewith. The 150-yard area is a "safety zone." (b) It is unlawful for any person to intentionally discharge any firearm or release any arrow or crossbow bolt over or across any public road or way open to the public, in an unsafe manner. Which is kind of funny because in the current regulations it states: §354. Archery Equipment and Crossbow Regulations. e) No arrow or crossbow bolt may be released from a bow or crossbow upon or across any highway, road or other way open to vehicular traffic. If I was archery, I would side with the regulations.
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#5
09-30-2009, 7:05 PM
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150 yards away from any public road (if you own the road then you can do whatever), 150 yards from any body of water, and 150 yards away from any building.
This is what both the Forest Service and DFG told me when I was researching laws for my camping in Kern
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#7
09-30-2009, 7:14 PM
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#8
09-30-2009, 7:16 PM
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I also have the same question concernig shooting from a road. Does it matter if it is paved or dirt. I have heard so many different answers.
When we hunt out of state its a step off of the road. I thought it was the same here, but then Ill hear someone say no its 150 yards.
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#9
09-30-2009, 7:25 PM
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PC374(c)
Every person who shoots any firearm from or upon a public road or highway is guilty of a misdemeanor. Where does it say anything about 150 yards??? All you have to do is step off.
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#10
09-30-2009, 7:42 PM
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there is no distance from roads or water, only buildings without permission. if i remember correctly, you cant shoot lead shot over a body of water, only steel.
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#11
09-30-2009, 7:47 PM
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It is only mentioned that "Other than the owner or person with permission... It is unlawful to hunt or discharge while hunting any firearm within 150 yards of any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn..... The 150 yard area is a safety zone (FGC 3004)"
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Last edited by Bigballaizm; 09-30-2009 at 7:49 PM..
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#12
09-30-2009, 7:59 PM
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Sounds pretty cut & dry to me, step off of the road and open fire!
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War is when your Government tells you who the enemy is...... Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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#13
09-30-2009, 8:09 PM
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As for the building part, we're assuming here that there is no permission.
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#14
09-30-2009, 8:12 PM
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The 150 yards specifically applies to dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding used in connection. This means a temporary residence may not qualify if it is not occupied. That is my guess, I have nothing other than my guess to support that claim.
California Fish And Game Code Section 3004 a) It is unlawful for any person, other than the owner, person in possession of the premises, or a person having the express permission of the owner or person in possession of the premises, to hunt or to discharge while hunting, any firearm or other deadly weapon within 150 yards of any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding used in connection therewith. The 150-yard area is a "safety zone." The road is a different creature entirely. I've already posted the code for the road and here it is again under the 3004 section. (b) It is unlawful for any person to intentionally discharge any firearm or release any arrow or crossbow bolt over or across any public road or way open to the public, in an unsafe manner. No minimum distance is mentioned. I won't mention the name of a very friendly and candid warden I spoke to, but he told me I could shoot from 1 inch off the road, actually fire back across the road to take my kill. The only catch is it had to be a rifle and not a bow. Kind of ironic. I didn't think of it at the time, but the current regulations on archery state you cannot shot across a road. My guess is the warden assumes the current reg would superceed any Fish and Game Code. I have no idea, and I can verify after speaking with multiple wardens that they all have a different idea of what is an offense and what is legal. The point being is you cannot rely on what a warden says unless you have code to back it up, and in the case of how far you need to be off a road it is definitely ambiguous. But if you are in a legal area to hunt, you step off the road, take your shot (after making sure it is safe), then you should have nothing to worry about. I was looking for some specific case law, if any exists. I was sure there would be case law out there, but I haven't been able to find anything yet. I haven't put the full court press on an internet search, but I've done a fair share of different Goggles.
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#15
09-30-2009, 8:21 PM
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I've talked with a few wardens i've never heard anything mentioned about a distance from the road. At the refuges everyone hunts right alongside the road for pheasant.
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#18
09-30-2009, 8:28 PM
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Stepping off "the road" can mean different things. There are travelled roads and paper roads. Many times a travelled road is only paved (or graded) on a portion of the legal road. Most freeways and highways are legally a lot wider than just the improved areas. That why you often see fences over 100' from the sides of the highways. So, who can tell me exactly what the law means when it says "upon a public roadway or highway"? Does it mean the legal roadway or just the improved/travelled roadway? If you just step off the pavement and shoot, you could be convicted of a crime according to the letter of the law.
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#19
09-30-2009, 8:34 PM
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also, no shooting across a road.. and i am too lazy to look that one up
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#20
09-30-2009, 9:23 PM
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PUBLIC ROAD OTHER WAY OPEN DEFINED: “Public road or other way open”, particularly, with respect to safety regulations, includes any roads, dirt or otherwise, trails, open fields, parking lots, etc., open to public access. Fish and Game Code specifically states you cannot shoot across the road in an "unsafe manner"...Nowhere does it say you cannot shoot across a public road in a safe manner. Here is the same safety regulations defined from the same booklet: SAFETY: It is always unlawful to: Hunt while intoxicated (FGC 3001); Shoot at any game bird from a powerboat, sailboat, motor vehicle, or aircraft while under power or still moving from use of sail or motor (CCR/T14, Section 251); Shoot any firearm from or upon a public road or highway PC 374(c)). Even in the Fish and Game regs they defer back to a piece of PC that was established back in the 1930's (according to the CHP I spoke to). So back to my OP, I am extremely interested in finding some relevant case law...Ultimately this crap isn't going to apply to me when/where I hunt, but I have to say this has been pretty fun. Feel like I'm back in school 
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#21
10-01-2009, 8:55 AM
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__________________
War is when your Government tells you who the enemy is...... Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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#22
10-01-2009, 9:23 AM
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150 yards from any county maintained road.
You may not shoot across roads. Why would you want to risk injuring someone. The unsafe matter pertains to shooting in the air or in crowded areas.
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#23
10-01-2009, 9:42 AM
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The "150 yard " from the road is BS. Like stated before it pertains to structures, not roads. You can shoot off the road, but not across it. This will be a long argument, but it is what it is. Everyone has their opinion, but there is no law of "how far off" you need to be. I guess many of you never hunted WILD pheasants before. Their called ditch chickens for a reason. The ditches we hunt are next to the road next to our property. We never had any problems.
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#24
10-01-2009, 9:50 AM
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#25
10-01-2009, 9:51 AM
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#28
10-01-2009, 10:29 AM
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I just wrote Craig Stowers of the Main DFG ion Sacramento to clarify this for us and put it to rest for all of us.
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#29
10-01-2009, 1:08 PM
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I'd love to hear what your warden in Rancho Cordova says. I left a message there for Cpt Mark Lucero but I didn't recieve a call from him. I've heard different things from different wardens. One left a voice message on my cell phone with a hearty explanation. I have that message saved for a rainy day should I ever need it.
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#30
10-01-2009, 1:10 PM
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#31
10-01-2009, 1:11 PM
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I stand corrected. It is the shoulder of the road. In NC it was always 150 feet from any road. But that was also on a military installation where they are much more strict.
Here is the email. read from bottom to top. nope - wardens I talk to interpret it to be the shoulder of the road. Craig Stowers >>> curtis wright <curtisdunnitwright@yahoo.com> 10/1/2009 1:48 PM >>> But there is no distance stated to how far from the road you must be. Curtis ________________________________ From: Craig Stowers <CSTOWERS@dfg.ca.gov> To: curtis wright <curtisdunnitwright@yahoo.com> Sent: Thu, October 1, 2009 1  23 PMSubject: Re: Sport hunting of Rock Doves Fish and Game Code 3004(b) - "It is unlawful for any person to intentionally discharge any firearm or release any arrow or crossbow bolt over or across any public road or way open to the public, in an unsafe manner" and Penal Code 374(c) - "It is always unlawful to shoot any firearm from or upon a public road or highway". Clear as mud?? Craig Stowers Ca. Dept. Fish and Game Deer Program Coordinator 1812 Ninth Street Sacramento, CA 95814 (916) 445-3553 >>> curtis wright <curtisdunnitwright@yahoo.com> 10/1/2009 11:28 AM >>> I'm sorry to bother you but there is a question on a forum that pertains to how far off of a road you need to be to be legal. Can you tell me the law on this or where to look it up? Curtis
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#32
10-01-2009, 1:15 PM
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OK, so my question is where is the shoulder or edge of the road. Is it the travelled road or the legal road (often much wider than the improved or travelled area)?
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#33
10-01-2009, 1:19 PM
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For example, if there is a guard rail, other side of the guard rail is gtg. Sitting on the guard rail would probably be a bad idea.
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"People who think they know everything are especially annoying to those that do"
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#34
10-01-2009, 2:48 PM
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thank you ricewatcher for showing me. I missed it.
Here is an opinion by THOMAS C. LYNCH, Attorney General; Edward W. Bergtholdt, Deputy to questions presented by the head of DFG. (Do not rely on it because it is from the 1964, but it might help clarify) 1. Does the term "firearm" as used in Penal Code section 12031 include rifles and shotguns? 2. Does Penal Code section 12031 prohibit the carrying of a rifle or shotgun with unexpended shells or cartridges in the magazine on a public road in an unincorporated area where there are no local ordinances or other laws or regulations prohibiting the discharge of firearms? 3. Does Penal Code section 374c make every "public road or highway" a "prohibited area," as defined in section 12031? 4. Is the term "public street" as used in section 12031 synonymous with "public road or highway" as used in Penal Code section 374c? 5. Would the "safety zone" described in Fish and Game Code section 3004 be considered a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031(d)? The conclusions are: 1. The term "firearm" as used in Penal Code section 12031 includes rifles and shotguns. 2. Penal Code section 12031 does not prohibit the carrying of a rifle or shotgun with unexpended shells or cartridges in the magazine on a public road in an unincorporated area where there are no local ordinances or other laws or regulations prohibiting the discharge of firearms. Question No. 2 requests an opinion whether section 12031 prohibits the carrying of a loaded firearm on a public road in an unincorporated area. We conclude that section 12031 does not prohibit the carrying of loaded firearms on such public ways. For the reasons set forth in our answer to question No. 4, the term "public streets" in section 12031 (a) must be given a narrow construction. There is a distinction between [*8] "public roads" and "public streets" which is discussed more fully below. The proscriptions of section 12031 are therefore not applicable to "public roads" because they are not "public streets" as that term is used in section 12031. n2 3. Penal Code section 374c does make every "public road or highway" a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031. requests an opinion whether Penal Code section 374c n3 makes every "public road" a "prohibited area" as defined by section 12031. Because [*9] the discharge of firearms is prohibited on "public roads and highways," these public ways are by definition "prohibited areas" (section 12031 (d)). This does not, however, alter our conclusion that the proscriptions of section 12031 are not applicable to such public ways because, as set forth in our response to your question No. 4, the term "public road or highway" is not synonymous with the term "public street." 4. The term "public street" as used in section 12031 is not synonymous with "public road or highway" as used in Penal Code section 374c. Additionally, earlier versions of A.B. 1591 would have amended Fish and Game Code section 2006. Such amendment was designed to conform the definition of a loaded rifle or shotgun in Fish and Game Code section 2006 to the definition of a loaded firearm in Penal Code section 12031. Section 2006 applies on all "public highway [s] or other way[s] open to the public." The failure of the Legislature to enact such an amendment to section 2006 suggests that it did not intend that section 2006 be superseded by section 12031. Had it desired section 2006 to be superseded, it would have either amended its definition of a loaded weapon to conform to section 12031 or repealed it entirely. For these reasons we must conclude that the Legislature intended the term "public streets" be given a narrow meaning. It is not synonymous, then, with "public roads and highways," but includes only the public ways of towns and villages and not the "open roads" in rural sections of unincorporated areas. 5. The "safety zone" described in Fish and Game Code section 3004 is a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031, but carrying of loaded weapons is proscribed therein only when it coincides with a "public place." Hope this does not muddy the water or get me in trouble for copy right violations
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#35
10-01-2009, 3:52 PM
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Pheasant opens in another month or so I think ill run out to Grizzly Island and take some photos of the hundreds of pheasant hunters working the sides of the roads while DFG wardens are driving down them.
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#36
10-01-2009, 4:06 PM
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I wonder the same. Here in the AV I would like to see people shoot a coyote from the side of the road and not get fined or ticketed.
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#37
10-01-2009, 4:29 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=186457 How far off the road do you need to be in the National Forest before you can fire? Unfortunately, their regulations don't say. 
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#38
10-01-2009, 4:45 PM
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WRONG AGAIN!!! you are confusing national parks with national forests
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#39
10-01-2009, 5:06 PM
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http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title36...8.1.29.12.html "The following are prohibited... d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:... Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge." Since you can't discharge a firearm from a National Forest service road, as per the above, 12031 then kicks in (if you are in CA) and you therefore can't even carry loaded on those roads: http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html Q.E.D.
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#40
10-01-2009, 5:13 PM
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Yes you cant shoot while your standing on the road or shoot across it but you can step 1 inch off the road and shoot. You cant carry loaded meaning chambered on those roads. Your fine if they are in the magazine. Last edited by pieeater; 10-01-2009 at 5:16 PM..
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