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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2009, 7:35 PM
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Default Gunnies Registered to Vote?

I'm not sure I'm in the right forum for this but I wanted to ask.

Has there ever been a concerted effort to find gunnies who are not registered to vote? And get them registered and out to the polls?

I'm fairly new to this forum and the RTKB issue in CA. But it's obviously extremely important for us to get 2A friendly legislators in office. And rid ourselves of the likes of DeLeon and Feuer and a host of others.

Along with strengthening our numbers and making it more of a liability for anyone to run on the anti-gun platform.

When these jakelegs start to get the idea that the gunny vote can actually break their chances of getting elected, we'll see less new gun laws.

Does anyone know if their are gunnies in them thar hills that we could get registered and voting for their 2A rights?
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Old 09-27-2009, 8:41 PM
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well being that guns aren't registered and voters are how would this be possible.
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Old 09-27-2009, 8:52 PM
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The obvious challenge would be to find people that are pro 2A but not registered to vote, and get them to do so.
Increase our numbers at the polls.
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Old 09-27-2009, 9:05 PM
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The difficulty is in the law. I believe there are some complicated legal issues in a political organization registering people to vote. We all recall when Michael Moore threw packs of ramen and underwear at college students last year, and nearly got in trouble for "selling votes."
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Old 09-27-2009, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lioneaglegriffin View Post
well being that guns aren't registered and voters are how would this be possible.
Gunnies, not guns. lol.
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2009, 9:33 PM
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Does anyone know if their are gunnies in them thar hills that we could get registered and voting for their 2A rights?
Going to them thar hills and asking guys with guns who aren't registered to vote to give their info to the gubmint on a voter registration form sounds like a good way to get disappeared.
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Old 09-27-2009, 9:45 PM
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This sort of outreach effort is a bigger challenge than it may seem at first glance (both legal and political obstacles); at some point someone will turn a non-partisan voter registration into a partisan one. Keep in mind that we may very well produce a voter guide at some time in the future.

Though not impossible, it would be on the losing side of the cost/benefit analysis.

Picture this (in front of Safeway/Stater Bros./Trader Joes/Whole Foods):

"Hello, sir. Are you by chance registered to vote?"

"No, actually I'm not. Haven't voted in years. Damn politicians always get elected no matter who we vote for."

"Well, if you'd be able to spare just a moment of your time, we have registration cards right here. It's very important that we all participate in our government. This only takes a moment and you can have your ballot mailed right to your mailbox- doesn't get any easier to get involved than that!"

"Well, what party would you recommend for me as a Californian? I'm a huge firearms buff and want to make sure that my second amendment rights are protected."

[long pause]

"Well..."

[longer pause]

"You know, I'm just not interested in signing anything today. Sounds like politics hasn't changed enough for me to get back into voting and all that."
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2009, 10:03 PM
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Gunnies, not guns. lol.
how do you know who the gunnies are if you don't know who owns the guns? there isn't a (legal) database of gun owners.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:33 PM
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A possible way to make it easy for Calguns members and readers to register would be to supply a link like this: http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm with an encouraging word reminding them if we don't vote them out we're never going to change the climate in Sacramento.

Perhaps make it a sticky.

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Old 09-27-2009, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lioneaglegriffin View Post
how do you know who the gunnies are if you don't know who owns the guns? there isn't a (legal) database of gun owners.
Not legal, but I am sure there is one...you don't actually trust bureaucrats to toss out ANY info that won't indict them, do you?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lioneaglegriffin View Post
how do you know who the gunnies are if you don't know who owns the guns? there isn't a (legal) database of gun owners.
I think the OP's idea originally was just directed more at, well, asking - see people shooting guns, ask if they're registered, encourage them to register if not. Despite the comment about gunnies "in them thar hills," I don't think he actually was looking to go on a manhunt for unregistered gun owners. Nothing that would require access to some all-encompassing list of gun owners.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2009, 11:36 PM
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i see for some reason i was thinking of a mailer.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2009, 7:04 AM
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Going to them thar hills and asking guys with guns who aren't registered to vote to give their info to the gubmint on a voter registration form sounds like a good way to get disappeared.
Indeed true.
A fact we are recently reminded of in the case of the census taker that was found hanging from a rural tree in Kentucky.

I'm not about to drive 20 minutes up a dirt road in Kern County and knock on someone's door and ask them if they have guns and would they like to give some information to the government.

I was speaking euphemistically about the hills, meaning are there gunnies out there, be they in the city or the country that might not be registered voters that could somehow be encouraged to register and help vote these antis outta here.

I am very enamored of the concept that a person who covets office in CA would have to concern themselves with how the 2A voters perceive him or her. Right now they know if they come out as anti, they'll get more votes.
LeRoy Baca is my High Sheriff here in LA. He knows damn well he can speak loud about taking everyone's guns and it will help, not hinder his re-election chances. Pretty sickening.

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Originally Posted by lioneaglegriffin View Post
how do you know who the gunnies are if you don't know who owns the guns? there isn't a (legal) database of gun owners.
I wouldn't have a clue how to do this to be honest. Or the legal remifications. Set up a booth at a gun show specifically dedicated to educating gunnies on the inportance of registering to vote?

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Originally Posted by kf6tac View Post
I think the OP's idea originally was just directed more at, well, asking - see people shooting guns, ask if they're registered, encourage them to register if not. Despite the comment about gunnies "in them thar hills," I don't think he actually was looking to go on a manhunt for unregistered gun owners. Nothing that would require access to some all-encompassing list of gun owners.
Exactly. I'm painting in broad strokes.
I am about to go pick up flyers and distribute them to in an attempt to motivate more people to call the Governor and urge him to veto AB 962.

It occurred to me that I would like to apply that same amount of energy to the cause of trying to keep people like DeLeon out of office in the first place.

And it seems like getting a gunny to vote who otherwise isn't, would be an easier task than trying to convert a bunch of antis.

If this is a real Gomer of an idea, what else can we do or what else is being done?

More crap like AB 962 is going to keep coming down the Pike from the same like-minded politicos.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2009, 9:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
I was speaking euphemistically about the hills, meaning are there gunnies out there, be they in the city or the country that might not be registered voters that could somehow be encouraged to register and help vote these antis outta here.

I am very enamored of the concept that a person who covets office in CA would have to concern themselves with how the 2A voters perceive him or her. Right now they know if they come out as anti, they'll get more votes.
LeRoy Baca is my High Sheriff here in LA. He knows damn well he can speak loud about taking everyone's guns and it will help, not hinder his re-election chances. Pretty sickening.

I wouldn't have a clue how to do this to be honest. Or the legal remifications. Set up a booth at a gun show specifically dedicated to educating gunnies on the inportance of registering to vote?
Reaching those last holdouts is tough. I have a feeling many of those hold outs have decided to opt out. My vote, as an example, is meaningless beyond strictly local issues so I understand the feeling of hopelessness. Convincing opted out gunnies to opt back in is a tough sell. They can be told about the devious acts of candidates with an anti record but beyond that it's all guessing games. We run the risk of reinforcing their alienation by going negative.

There's no penalty for being an anti. The game is fixed until reapportionment. No legislative district from the statehouse on up has a majority of voters registered as republicans and unfortunately gun issues are seen as a conservative republican issue instead of a civil rights issue.

Voter registration is a great idea. A gunshow is an ideal place to reach gunnies. That said gunshows, like at the Cow Palace, draw gunnies from many counties and that issue presents a logistical nightmare with registration forms if the folks at the booth aren't on the ball at all times. One wisecrack from a booth worker along the lines of "why the heck are you registering as a democrat, don't you know they want our guns" gets us in a heap of trouble.

Perhaps the best thing to do is have a table with info about candidates at the shows closest to elections and let gunnies draw their own conclusions based on the candidates records.

Last edited by berto; 09-28-2009 at 9:06 AM..
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:56 PM
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Reaching those last holdouts is tough. I have a feeling many of those hold outs have decided to opt out. My vote, as an example, is meaningless beyond strictly local issues so I understand the feeling of hopelessness. Convincing opted out gunnies to opt back in is a tough sell. They can be told about the devious acts of candidates with an anti record but beyond that it's all guessing games. We run the risk of reinforcing their alienation by going negative.

There's no penalty for being an anti. The game is fixed until reapportionment. No legislative district from the statehouse on up has a majority of voters registered as republicans and unfortunately gun issues are seen as a conservative republican issue instead of a civil rights issue.

Voter registration is a great idea. A gunshow is an ideal place to reach gunnies. That said gunshows, like at the Cow Palace, draw gunnies from many counties and that issue presents a logistical nightmare with registration forms if the folks at the booth aren't on the ball at all times. One wisecrack from a booth worker along the lines of "why the heck are you registering as a democrat, don't you know they want our guns" gets us in a heap of trouble.

Perhaps the best thing to do is have a table with info about candidates at the shows closest to elections and let gunnies draw their own conclusions based on the candidates records.


When I think of real effective change in the gun laws of CA, I think of politicians in office other than the ones we have.

What's the most effective thing we can do to acconplish a change like that?

Or is it a lost cause and will our energies be better spent in efforts to challenge the laws that get passed?
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Old 09-28-2009, 1:31 PM
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When I think of real effective change in the gun laws of CA, I think of politicians in office other than the ones we have.

What's the most effective thing we can do to acconplish a change like that?

Or is it a lost cause and will our energies be better spent in efforts to challenge the laws that get passed?
Your guess is as good as mine.

The reapportionment process should help in terms of creating more competitive districts. Identifying and supporting pro-2A candidates is the next step. It's not necessarily an easy step because many gun owners refuse to look beyond the D or the R next to a candidates name. A pro-2A democrat getting elected is better than a pro-2A republican going down in flames. It's not that simple though as many gun owners don't vote 2A rights as a single issue.

What we need are pro-2A candidates palatable to a majority of the electorate, what we get are candidates chosen by the more extreme elements of each party leaving us with unelectable republicans and anti-2A dems. Since 2A issues aren't of supreme importance to the vast majority of the electorate we need to find folks we can work with. It really comes down to what each one of us holds dear and what each one of is willing to compromise on in order to elect more gun friendly legislators. There are no perfect candidates.

We can't give up on the statehouse because stopping bad bills before they get passed is easier, cheaper, and less disruptive than going to court.
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Old 09-28-2009, 2:08 PM
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Real change will come via a solid legal foundation and working within our communities to modify our culture to become gun-friendly (or, at least, neutral).

Vote for candidates who support RKBA and urge others to do the same.
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Old 09-28-2009, 2:09 PM
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Or is it a lost cause and will our energies be better spent in efforts to challenge the laws that get passed?
Not a lost cause, but to be effective we need to wake people up to the positive aspects of gun ownership and change their perspective of us.
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Old 09-28-2009, 2:20 PM
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Not a lost cause, but to be effective we need to wake people up to the positive aspects of gun ownership and change their perspective of us.
Yes.

Guns aren't scary, we're not crazy for having them, we aren't a bunch of loony camo wearing bigots, etc.

2A support should be no more of an issue than support for any other amendment.
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Old 09-28-2009, 2:34 PM
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Not a lost cause, but to be effective we need to wake people up to the positive aspects of gun ownership and change their perspective of us.
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Yes.

Guns aren't scary, we're not crazy for having them, we aren't a bunch of loony camo wearing bigots, etc.

2A support should be no more of an issue than support for any other amendment.
I keep seeing references (some here on CG) to statistics that indicate 10% of all gun sales in the U.S. occurred in CA last year.

That seems like a lot of gunnies, but then we always seem outnumbered when it comes to who gets elected.

I vote 2A across the board, whether that's considered a responsible thing to do or not. By gunnies and antis alike.

It's a never-ending battle either way. Which is fine. It's manageable.
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Old 09-28-2009, 2:42 PM
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Not all gunnies vote, I'd say less than 20%, I did a poll here awhile back asking if you voted. Simple question with a yes or no answer, results were disappointing.

Also not all gunnies who are registered to vote will vote the way I'd like them to vote. Which means in the big picture there are more Democrat votes with or without guns.

I'd say the first step to a get out the vote drive is to start right here on Calguns.


Here is the Poll I posted on 7 March 09, while not scientific only 115 Calgunners bothered to give a yes or no to a simple question. My thoughts are that I got more positive votes simply because no one wanted to admit on this board that they do not vote.

I would sincerely like to think that 98% of Calgunners do vote but after a few years of reading these threads I am not that naive. Also in another thread Ralph Weller of CRPA stated that only 6% of California gun owners actually vote which prompted me to post the Poll.

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Old 09-28-2009, 4:42 PM
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Not all gunnies vote, I'd say less than 20%, I did a poll here awhile back asking if you voted. Simple question with a yes or no answer, results were disappointing.

Also not all gunnies who are registered to vote will vote the way I'd like them to vote. Which means in the big picture there are more Democrat votes with or without guns.

I'd say the first step to a get out the vote drive is to start right here on Calguns.


Here is the Poll I posted on 7 March 09, while not scientific only 115 Calgunners bothered to give a yes or no to a simple question. My thoughts are that I got more positive votes simply because no one wanted to admit on this board that they do not vote.

I would sincerely like to think that 98% of Calgunners do vote but after a few years of reading these threads I am not that naive. Also in another thread Ralph Weller of CRPA stated that only 6% of California gun owners actually vote which prompted me to post the Poll.

Vick

It's kind of depressing to find this out. Because one of our greatest strengths could be in our voting numbers.
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Old 09-28-2009, 4:53 PM
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The obvious challenge would be to find people that are pro 2A but not registered to vote, and get them to do so.
Increase our numbers at the polls.
Let's start our own acorn organization for Republicans and call it almond
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Old 09-28-2009, 5:13 PM
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It's kind of depressing to find this out. Because one of our greatest strengths could be in our voting numbers.
Yes indeed, especially since we are doing a statewide outreach and adding to those numbers.

I'd like to find a way to get them all to register (1st step) and then vote (2nd step). It may be just too difficult for most folks to sort through the crap and do research issues and candidates.

But if we figure roughly 20-30% of us will vote out of 100,000 that will be a bloc of 20-30,000 votes. Means we have to get much bigger to have an affect. That's an optimistic number as its confined to just Calguns and not the general population like Mr. Weller brought up.

So we need to educate our fellow Calgunners and encourage them to get in and register to vote and then vote.
Oddly enough a deterrent I often hear is the likelyhood of being summoned to Jury Duty once registered.

Another example is how many do you figure actually called the Governor asking him to Veto AB 962 and SB 585?
Even though it is all automated where you do not have to talk to a real people, just punch in numbers and listen.

Maybe the CRPA or the NRA may have a better data set to analyze regarding California voters.

Not registering and not voting seems to be an institution.

Vick
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  #25  
Old 09-28-2009, 5:16 PM
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The difficulty is in the law. I believe there are some complicated legal issues in a political organization registering people to vote. We all recall when Michael Moore threw packs of ramen and underwear at college students last year, and nearly got in trouble for "selling votes."

LOL I remember reading about that!
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
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Old 09-28-2009, 6:16 PM
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Yes indeed, especially since we are doing a statewide outreach and adding to those numbers.

I'd like to find a way to get them all to register (1st step) and then vote (2nd step). It may be just too difficult for most folks to sort through the crap and do research issues and candidates.

But if we figure roughly 20-30% of us will vote out of 100,000 that will be a bloc of 20-30,000 votes. Means we have to get much bigger to have an affect. That's an optimistic number as its confined to just Calguns and not the general population like Mr. Weller brought up.

So we need to educate our fellow Calgunners and encourage them to get in and register to vote and then vote.
Oddly enough a deterrent I often hear is the likelyhood of being summoned to Jury Duty once registered.

Another example is how many do you figure actually called the Governor asking him to Veto AB 962 and SB 585?
Even though it is all automated where you do not have to talk to a real people, just punch in numbers and listen.

Maybe the CRPA or the NRA may have a better data set to analyze regarding California voters.

Not registering and not voting seems to be an institution.

Vick

I've encouraged many people to join this forum. Not all of whom are all that active in shooting, but do own guns.

Increasing membership here, and then promoting registration to vote amongst all members, combined with good information on which candidates are the most 2A friendly would at least be a decent start.

I would love to see LeRoy Baca forced to be less vocal as a gun control advocate for fear of losing an election. And all other anti-gun candidates.

Jury duty.
I'm not trying to foment breaking the law, but I once had a lawyer tell me that a letter in the mail does not carry the same weight as a subpoena. And there are few, if any cases where someone was prosecuted for not responding to the letter calling them to jury duty.

Mail, after all, does get lost. Especially the kind that was not signed for.
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  #27  
Old 09-28-2009, 7:07 PM
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wildhawker wildhawker is offline
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Electing a Republican in California does not mean you've placed a RKBA-supporting person into public office.

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Originally Posted by M9Man View Post
Let's start our own acorn organization for Republicans and call it almond
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