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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:22 AM
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Default Worlds’ biggest AK 47 manufacturer,Kalashnikov, is bankrupt

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2cf_1253643351
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 AM
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Wow how said its true tho sad but true there is so many competitors out there now.

heres the story


Worlds’ biggest AK 47 manufacturer,Kalashnikov, is bankrupt

CLOSE [X] For years, the AK-47 assault rifle has been the world's most popular weapon, the gun of choice for dictators, gang members and Third World revolutionaries.

But the global recession and a proliferation of copycats has left the Russian maker of the Kalashnikov, OAO Izhmash, in financial turmoil.

Monday, a court in Russia said it will consider a bankruptcy application filed against Izhmash by a supplier owed more than $13-million (U.S.). According to reports out of Russia, Izhmash has been losing money for years on its small-arms business and closed its largest gun factory in Izhevsk for much of 2009.

The company, which makes other military weapons and hunting guns, has blamed its problems on falling orders from the cash-strapped Russian army and a flood of AK-47 look-alikes from factories in China, Bulgaria, Poland and elsewhere.

By some estimates, copycat versions of the gun outsell Izhmash's legitimate variety 10 to one.

“They have been having this trouble for at least five years,” said Larry Kahaner, a Virginia-based journalist.

“We are at the point now that because it's so easy to make, anybody can make it,” said Mr. Kahaner, who wrote a history of the gun called The AK-47: The Weapon That Changed the Face of War .

Izhmash's troubles stand in contrast to some U.S. gun makers, such as Sturm Ruger & Co. Inc. and Smith & Wesson Holding Corp., whose sales and profits jumped sharply this year. That's largely due to specialty products and political issues in the United States where people have been buying guns out of concern President Barack Obama will tighten gun control during his tenure.

But international sales by both U.S. companies have not been as strong and military suppliers around the world have been coping with shrinking government spending on the military because of the recession. Izhmash is facing similar economic pressures along with an oversupply of discount look-a-likes.

Even the gun's inventor, Mikhail Kalashnikov who lives in Izhevsk, has complained about the counterfeits. “They just use the brand, the fame. It's not fair,” Mr. Kalashnikov told reporters in 2007.

Mr. Kalashnikov, a former Russian soldier, designed the gun while recovering from injuries during the Second World War. His work culminated in the AK-47 – taking its name from “automatic,” “Kalashnikov” and 1947, the year it was introduced.

Although less accurate than other machine guns, the AK-47 is easier to use and more durable. “It's simple, it's cheap, it's indestructible,” Mr. Kahaner said. “You can fix it with a coat hanger and a piece of gum. You can bury it for 10 years in the sand, pick it up out of the ground and it still works.”

The gun “was designed to be used by people with a minimum amount of training,” added John Hipwell of Wolverine Supplies, a gun dealer in Virden, Man. “And it was designed to be made with a minimum amount of expensive machinery.”

The Soviet Union not only adopted the AK-47 for its military but granted production licences to dozens of friendly states. However, Mr. Kalashnikov's design was never patented and the production agreements were largely handshake deals.

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, those client states began pumping out volumes of AK-47 variations, often charging much less than Izhmash. Today there are an estimated 70 million AK-47-type guns in circulation around the world, and in some countries the weapon can be bought for as little as $50.

Izhmash has tried to fight back with newer versions of the gun, such as the AK-100 series, which features a lighter design and more accuracy. And it recently signed production contracts with India and Venezuela. But Mr. Kahaner doubted those moves will be enough.

“There's no profit margin in small arms, that's the bottom line,” he said.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:32 AM
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Wow... hope I get my saiga 12 before they shut down
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:53 AM
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man...i need to get my 5.45 and maybe another S12
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:20 PM
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bankrupt does not equal stop manufacturing.....

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Wow... hope I get my saiga 12 before they shut down
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by evollep3 View Post
Today there are an estimated 70 million AK-47-type guns in circulation around the world, and in some countries the weapon can be bought for as little as $50.

thats why i have such a hard time shelling out 1K for siaga conversion...
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:30 PM
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thats why i have such a hard time shelling out 1K for siaga conversion...
you mean restoration
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:31 PM
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This news article just blew my f'in mind.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:37 PM
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Very curious. I wonder if this means that IZMASH may consider licensing designs like the Saiga-12.

Even if they do NOT stop permanent production @ the facility in Russia, this article clearly states that the IZMASH facility was closed for much of 2009. Production interruptions of the Saiga are likely (example: remember how hard it was to get a Saiga 12 in late 2008) and if the employees aren't given steady work, we may just see more "vodka specials."

-g
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZL View Post
bankrupt does not equal stop manufacturing.....
True, but who knows what kinds of changes will be made in the company that affect the quality of the firearms produced during and after the bankruptcy?
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:15 PM
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It's funny to hear this considering the US will buy just about every Saiga they import. We are just a drop in the bucket compaired to military contracts.
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Old 09-22-2009, 1:20 PM
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True, but who knows what kinds of changes will be made in the company that affect the quality of the firearms produced during and after the bankruptcy?
thats too bad....i hope everything works out. i really like my saigas
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Old 09-22-2009, 2:15 PM
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wow... I would love a $50 AK! That's sad that the ones who started it all is having $$$ problems.. It's just a sign of the times.
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Old 09-22-2009, 2:25 PM
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good thing i just bought my Saiga today
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2009, 2:27 PM
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Just because they are bankrupt doesn't mean they will stop manufacturing weapons. Look at GM...
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Old 09-22-2009, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ams30gts View Post
Just because they are bankrupt doesn't mean they will stop manufacturing weapons. Look at GM...
Something tells me IZMASH wont be getting a bailout from our government though..
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Old 09-22-2009, 2:52 PM
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Just because they are bankrupt doesn't mean they will stop manufacturing weapons. Look at GM...
Obama is behind it all LOL
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Old 09-22-2009, 3:15 PM
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Magpul should buy/bail them out!
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  #19  
Old 09-22-2009, 3:25 PM
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“There's no profit margin in small arms, that's the bottom line,”
Then close the Russian factories, downsize, and move the operation to the U.S. I'll pre-order one each of the AK 100 series, plus the SVD, SVDS, SVD bullpup, Saiga-12K...
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  #20  
Old 09-22-2009, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Z ME FLY View Post
wow... I would love a $50 AK! That's sad that the ones who started it all is having $$$ problems.. It's just a sign of the times.

$50 for a used one in africa but chances are you will be robbed before you can even get to the guy selling one for $50 and that is part of the problem they dont wear out and get resold over and over

if they are smart they would sell parts kits ready to add to our usa receivers and furniture preferably without their saiga ak chamber
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Old 09-22-2009, 9:45 PM
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From another board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishaco
Ok, the Izhmash thing....

was just talking about this with the wife. Reading some russian language sights and news articles.

Yes its true that on Oct 7th, there is a hearing in court to determine the future of the company.She is very confident that the Russian gov't will either buy out Izhmash or at least prop them up.
It is also true that they stopped making new AKs this past summer, due to not enough money to meet payroll. So there will probably be a supply shortage with Saiga imports in the next few months. Say around febuary or March.

Izhmash will survive that seems clear. What is less apparent is the future of Saiga imports, especially SGL type guns, into the USA. On the one hand, they are a good source of hard cash for the company but on the other the RF gov't has never really liked the idea of exporting military style arms into the USA--1994 Treaty as one example. The SGLs are coming in through loop holes and the standard Saigas we get now are easily converted. Either condition could be changed practically over night. There could be many manufacturing changes they could do, to make it more difficult to convert a saiga hunter into a military type configuration.

Of course, nothing might change at all, and prices might drop more as Izhmash becomes more hungry for higher sales volume. Their products are rather popular on the US market and i am sure peopel with brains over there realise this and don't want to loose out.
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Originally Posted by ShaiHulud
Pravda post-Yeltsin is the Russian equivalent of the National Enquirer or any other supermarket tabloid. Since Izhmash absorbed Molot they've had more capacity than work orders, and the shareholders voted in May not to take a dividend, so this isn't unexpected news. The automotive division filed over a month ago. This will be more of a GM bankruptcy than a Circuit City bankruptcy; the production of small arms at Izhmash will continue, and barring increased foreign demand (bush wars) or the clearing of the red tape and horse**** that requires Izhmash to sell many of their products in the U.S. through an intermediary they'll continue to operate at the same reduced capacity they have since the Cold War ended. The Russian government will tap a cooperative oligarch to relieve the debt problem if they don't just step in and take a controlling stake directly. Prices for Saigas will continue to rise steadily, but I'm predicting a spike for the next month or so as the internet flips out over this.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:45 PM
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Time for an American AK47!
It may cost more in the beginning, but the quality, and performance would be better. We can even modernize the AK47!
Earlier in the year we had a similar discussion and fear about the end of Imported AK47 here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=165022

If you think about it we already have American:
1. Barrels
2. Milled Receivers
3. Stamped Receivers
4. Muzzle Devices
5. Gas Pistons
6. Furniture
7. FCG
8. Rivets
9. Magazines
10. Adjustable Gas Blocks
11. Rear Trunions

We just need:
1. Standard Gas Blocks
2. Sight Blocks
3. Front Trunions
4. Top Covers
5. Front Sights
6. Bolt Carriers
7. Bolts

Too bad I don't have millions, I'd go to Russia and try to buy some tooling and data package.

Last edited by NSR500; 09-22-2009 at 10:55 PM.. Reason: #4 was missing and added #6, #7
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2009, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NSR500 View Post
We just need:
1. Standard Gas Blocks
2. Sight Blocks
3. Front Trunions
5. Top Covers
6. Front Sights
4 is missing
or maybe there are only 5
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:49 PM
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LOL... I must have messed up my list. I'll fix it...
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:50 PM
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I don't think you can make a better AK than the ones they are pumping out.

If you mean modernized, then yes. But they can easily offer a modernized one (but import laws would get in the way).

Not saying an American one would be bad, but it would just cost more.

But it would be nice, since we don't have to mess around with conversions and whatnot.

If an American company can make a high quality AK for $500-600, then that would be great. But a $800-900 AK is getting too expensive IMO.



I think it will get blown out of proportion, and the prices will go crazy again. Which is too bad, they were finally starting to settle back down.

Last edited by Flogger23m; 09-22-2009 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:53 PM
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Just import the damn factory into So. Cal.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flogger23m View Post
I don't think you can make a better AK than the ones they are pumping out.

If you mean modernized, then yes. But they can easily offer a modernized one (but import laws would get in the way).

Not saying an American one would be bad, but it would just cost more.

But it would be nice, since we don't have to mess around with conversions and whatnot.

If an American company can make a high quality AK for $500-600, then that would be great. But a $800-900 AK is getting too expensive IMO.



I think it will get blown out of proportion, and the prices will go crazy again. Which is too bad, they were finally starting to settle back down.
I don't think the prices will be too far off if there is an American AK47. As far as quality goes, an American AK47 has a better chance of having higher quality (excluding Century ).
If you look at all the cheaper AK type rifles they've all suffered some quality issue. There were Dragunovs that came with a 3rd hole, Saigas that came with a 3rd hole, the dimpled/undimpled controversy, canted sights, messed up WASR, Vodka Special Saiga12 with messed up gas ports, and the list can go on and on.
The most consistent AK imports have to be the Arsenal Bulgarian type, but with that, the prices were higher. You did however get a very, very high quality AK47, just look at their SAM-7 Milled.
I'd pay between $100-$200 more for a quality American AK47 especially if it was modernized. What I mean by modernization is getting rid of the side mount optics, improving the sight radius, better sights, etc...

To support my position think about the Valmet, and the Galil. Both based on the AK47, but improved and manufactured in another Country.

Last edited by NSR500; 09-22-2009 at 11:09 PM..
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  #28  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Just import the damn factory into So. Cal.
But there are so many to choose from . . . IMBEL, Izhmash, the Bulgarians . . .
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Old 09-23-2009, 2:48 AM
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Meh. Old news.. We need AN94 and AK-108 parts kits.
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Old 09-23-2009, 3:10 AM
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I would jump on an Abakan parts kit like a starving chihuahua on a porkchop if it was available.
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Old 09-23-2009, 3:12 AM
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I found a source a while back for them but they're expensive. I think kit was 2-3k.
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Old 09-23-2009, 7:57 AM
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Quote:
Even the gun's inventor, Mikhail Kalashnikov who lives in Izhevsk, has complained about the counterfeits. “They just use the brand, the fame. It's not fair,” Mr. Kalashnikov told reporters in 2007.
All of a sudden he is a capitalist? If I remember correctly, he was such a devout commie that he did not even make a patent on his design! Its his fault!
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Old 09-23-2009, 8:00 AM
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All of a sudden he is a capitalist? If I remember correctly, he was such a devout commie that he did not even make a patent on his design! Its his fault!
Ha ha, his face and name are on everything. Pay him, and he'll endorse what ever you want.
Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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On a televised interview, he actually claimed something along the lines of "I'm glad my gun is made everywhere." I just find the changing view a bit of an irony. I also have a great article about him titled "Russian gun maker lament his success" I cut it out of the Sac bee a while back. It was about how sad he was that his weapon has caused so much destruction.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayashi Killian View Post
I would jump on an Abakan parts kit like a starving chihuahua on a porkchop if it was available.
What's the point in a semi-auto AN-94?
It's built around the 2 round high cyclic rate burst fire concept.
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:12 AM
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half my arsenal is from izmash
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:33 AM
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Old 09-23-2009, 11:41 AM
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Saiga 22 WOULD BE A HUGE HIT & make a big profit .
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  #39  
Old 09-23-2009, 4:48 PM
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It's funny that the selling strengths of the AK47 are exactly the reasons why its maker is going bankrupt. Cheap to manufacture, lasts forever, etc. They should've followed the design principles of planned obsolescence, proprietary parts from a single source, high-cost-of-manufacture, high profit margin--LIKE THE SCAR, lol.
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Old 09-23-2009, 4:52 PM
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iTrader: 1 / 100%
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If they would just send some retro AK's over here I think they would sell like hotcakes
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Some say that he once mooned two prostitutes just for a round of drinks, but wasn't surprised by the reply......They call him, the Hutch
Some say that he rode a dirtbike 7k miles across the country and that he once applied Bengay to his own testicles for a mere $50............They call him, the Hutch -Top Gear

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