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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-21-2009, 8:30 PM
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Default Use 10round .458 socom mag with 5.56 ammo?

Well, in several months I am getting a .458 socom upper. I will be getting some ten round mags for it as well. I know, or at least think i know, the DOJ said that a mag that holds ten of a certain type of bullet is okay, even if it holds more of a other kind of bullet. So that is the case for the .458 socom magazines because in reality they are just 30 round USGI's. So... if I built the magazine as a ten rounder for .458... and the fact that it coincidentaly but now illegally can hold 30 5.56x45mm rounds... could I use that .458 socom magazine in a featureless 5.56x45mm Ar-15? Is this legal? Am I sane for thinking of this? Am I on the DOJ list yet?
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrakid88 View Post
Am I on the DOJ list yet?
I dont have your answer but you are probably on someones list. <jk>
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:37 PM
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No, it's illegal to put more than ten rounds of .223 into a 10-round .458 SOCOM mag, even though they will fit. If you then put that magazine loaded with > 10 rounds into your .223 AR, you have also created an "assault weapon".

Two crimes for the price of one. Not worth it even slightly. Keep the .223 cartridges far away from the .458 socom magazines.


(Turns out I was as wrong as it was possible to be wrong. Sorry about that.)
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Last edited by rabagley; 09-21-2009 at 9:17 PM.. Reason: Retraction and apology
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabagley View Post
No, it's illegal to put more than ten rounds of .223 into a 10-round .458 SOCOM mag, even though they will fit. If you then put that magazine loaded with > 10 rounds into your .223 AR, you have also created an "assault weapon".

Two crimes for the price of one. Not worth it even slightly. Keep the .223 cartridges far away from the .458 socom magazines.
only if its a fix magazine AR- a featureless AR can take 30 rd magazines all day long
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabagley View Post
No, it's illegal to put more than ten rounds of .223 into a 10-round .458 SOCOM mag, even though they will fit. If you then put that magazine loaded with > 10 rounds into your .223 AR, you have also created an "assault weapon".

Two crimes for the price of one. Not worth it even slightly. Keep the .223 cartridges far away from the .458 socom magazines.
Considering you just fud-ed me on the "assault weapon" thing, I cant really take your view seriously. I said in a featureless AR, those can use hi-caps without being AWs
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:49 PM
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I really wondering if this is legal or not. I manufactured a ten round .458 socom magazine. That magazine just happens to hold more that 10 rounds of 5.56... and there is nothing illegal with having a mag that holds more than ten of another caliber... so using it to hold thirty 5.56mm rounds couldnt be manufacture of a high cap, since I manufactured a ten round mag.
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Old 09-21-2009, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabagley View Post
No, it's illegal to put more than ten rounds
of .223 into a 10-round .458 SOCOM mag, even though they will fit.
FUD.

Just about all magazines of one caliber can be misapplied in another.
All 10rd magazines being sold today are 12?15?18? rounds in another caliber.

There is no law banning using a legally-acquired non-hicap mag as a hicap mag.

We have accumulated good material (depositions, history, etc.) on unclarity & vagueness of magazine capacity issues as part of Hunt v. Lockyer=>Brown matter.

Now, saying all the above, it would be wise for folks with 458 SOCOM magazines to have them marked as such, and maybe to own a 458 SOCOM upper too. That just helps "clear the decks".

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabagley
If you then put that magazine loaded with > 10 rounds into your .223 AR, you have also created an "assault weapon".
You're conflating separate issues.

IF AND ONLY IF it gun has a "nondetachable magazine" locked down with a BulletButton, etc.

But if the rifle can use detachable magazines (featureless w/MonsterMan, etc.) it can certainly use a magazine can and does hold over 10 rounds.
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2009, 8:57 PM
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So would it be unwise to go shooting with my future .458 ar and my current 5.56mm ar (which i would convert to featureless) then use the .458 ten round mags (which I would have engraved .458 somom, 10 rounds) in my 5.56 ar?
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2009, 9:16 PM
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Sorry for my mistakes. In all cases, they were more cautious, but as they were incorrect in the specific details, I will amend my post as incorrect.

I'm extremely pleased to know that all of my marked 7 round and 10 round .458 socom magazines can legally hold as many .223 rounds as possible without becoming "high-capacity magazines". My answer is what happens when you try to apply common sense to the law. Again, my sincere apologies.

And also true, I didn't notice the OP's mention of "featureless". As someone who moved to CA after Jan 1, 2000, featureless builds haven't provided any advantage to me, so I don't even think of them when people talk about AR's.

However, I call BS on "FUD". At no time was I trying to create "Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt". I was simply wrong.
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Old 09-21-2009, 9:36 PM
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Do the .458 mags have the same followers as 5.56 mags (in other words, it the 10 rd .458 mag the exact same as a 30 rd 5.56 mag)?
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2009, 9:38 PM
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I understand where you're coming from, but it's certainly not a cut-and-dry situation.

Code:
   (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds
You could argue, the way that Mr. Wiese has, that most any "ammunition feeding device" has the ability to accept more rounds of another caliber than it was designed for. I bet you could dump a whole lot of .22lr into a 10 round FAL magazine. Loading the .458 magazine with .223 seems to be a significantly different situation since it can actually feed the smaller ammunition, and is indeed identical to a 30-round .223 magazine. That, to me, means that you would be taking a big risk by using the .458 magazine in a .223 rifle.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2009, 9:39 PM
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Haha, sorry. I just love calling FUD on people... however i always jump the gun... and get it wrong everytime... but someday I will get a clean FUD slap to someones face
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:29 PM
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On a side note, the 458SOCOM is an enormous round.
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