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CGSSA Range Cleanups Schedule dates and time to clean up outdoor ranges. If we don't who will?

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  #81  
Old 09-24-2009, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
Trust me, with BLM it *does* matter who did it. If they decide to pin it on shooters, yes, we're all screwed. I've got just as big a stake in it staying open for shooting and on-trail exploring (great fossil beds in the area) as everyone else, maybe more so, since it serves more than one of my hobbies.

If you legitimately can pin it on the OHV crowd then BLM isn't going to shut Panoche down to shooters; they will realize that ticked off bikers and quad riders are the ones to blame and will focus their attention in that community.

We need pungi sticks!
Ok, let's follow through with what I think you're saying. Let's say it does matter who did it, and they shut down access to the OHV crowd.

How do they selectively shut down public land to just OHV'ers? If the gate is locked, how does a shooter get in yet keep others out?

I don't see the practicality of the BLM rangers trying to screen out who can use the land and who can't. I do see them shutting down Panoche completely so as to avoid having to tackle this screening issue.

Let's try a different analogy. We're all shooters, whether we shoot shotgun, rifle, or pistol; whether we hunt or target shoot. If there's an ammo ban or a feature ban, the bigger implications affect everyone equally no matter what your shooting discipline might be. I see Panoche and the abuse to be the same. Remember, united we stand, divided we fall..

Turby
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  #82  
Old 09-24-2009, 6:32 PM
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Regardless if it were shooters or ohv'ers who yanked it off the hinges the gate was full of bullet holes
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  #83  
Old 09-24-2009, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sorensen440 View Post
Regardless if it were shooters or ohv'ers who yanked it off the hinges the gate was full of bullet holes
Yep, Chris hit the nail on the head. Some parts looked like swiss cheese.

Ok let's get back to the repair needed. Looks like we are not getting any offers of someone with a mobile welder. What if we rented a welder and a generator to run it and found a calgunner who can weld to do the work? I'm going to ask my maintenance lead to check into what it would cost for renting a unit and generator for a couple of days. Then all we need is a pick up to haul it down. OH yeah will need a torch to burn a hole in the top hinge point.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
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Last edited by BroncoBob; 09-24-2009 at 7:03 PM..
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  #84  
Old 09-25-2009, 3:39 PM
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Missing the point. If BLM attributes to shooters, the whole place goes away. If blamed on OHVers, BLM has no deterrent option except enforcement. When CC had certain trails closed, BLM upped outreach and patrols when closed trails were found to be freshly disturbed. They didn't bother hunters and shooters since they were not responsible. Realizing that they had to stop an impacted group of overall users led to a proportional response. It wasn't until the EPA involved its bogus science that BLM completely closed the area.

Same with Panoche. BLM does have the resources to conduct more enforcement and outreach and if they determine it's OHVers they are less likely to totally shut down Panoche. They're an institution, they have SOPs. They tend to stick to them. In dealing with BLM for the last 12 years I've seen the pattern repeated over and over again in California and Nevada.

That's why it is important, if it can be shown, to distance shooter abuse (or lack thereof) from OHV abuse.



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Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Ok, let's follow through with what I think you're saying. Let's say it does matter who did it, and they shut down access to the OHV crowd.

How do they selectively shut down public land to just OHV'ers? If the gate is locked, how does a shooter get in yet keep others out?

I don't see the practicality of the BLM rangers trying to screen out who can use the land and who can't. I do see them shutting down Panoche completely so as to avoid having to tackle this screening issue.

Let's try a different analogy. We're all shooters, whether we shoot shotgun, rifle, or pistol; whether we hunt or target shoot. If there's an ammo ban or a feature ban, the bigger implications affect everyone equally no matter what your shooting discipline might be. I see Panoche and the abuse to be the same. Remember, united we stand, divided we fall..

Turby
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  #85  
Old 09-26-2009, 6:23 AM
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so, how bout a google map link
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  #86  
Old 09-26-2009, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
That's why it is important, if it can be shown, to distance shooter abuse (or lack thereof) from OHV abuse.
Compeletely appreciate your experience and perspective, but I think you've overlooked the detail that the gate has been shot and the rangers I'm in touch with specifically stated that the hinges have been shot enough to compromise their function.

Therefore, I can only presume that shooters of some kind were involved.

Turby
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  #87  
Old 09-26-2009, 10:26 AM
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There is a google map somewhere around here but I cant find it so I made a new one. We should put this on the first post about Panoche threads because people always ask for directions. If anyone can think of anything I can change or add let me know.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=panoch...N&hl=en&tab=wl
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  #88  
Old 09-26-2009, 12:36 PM
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There is a google map somewhere around here but I cant find it so I made a new one. We should put this on the first post about Panoche threads because people always ask for directions. If anyone can think of anything I can change or add let me know.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=panoch...N&hl=en&tab=wl

Mike sometimes you amaze me.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
Michael Reagan
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  #89  
Old 09-26-2009, 1:32 PM
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Mike sometimes you amaze me.
Sometimes? How about the rest of the time?

Turby
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  #90  
Old 09-26-2009, 2:12 PM
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Sometimes? How about the rest of the time?

Turby
The words astonish or astound come to mind
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  #91  
Old 09-26-2009, 3:39 PM
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The words astonish or astound come to mind
No more fear, duck, weave anything to keep out of the line of hot brass rain
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
Michael Reagan
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  #92  
Old 09-26-2009, 3:58 PM
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acorn might have missed you but I wont. I might not be able to hit my target with a bullet but I sure can hit you with hot brass.
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  #93  
Old 09-27-2009, 3:45 PM
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acorn might have missed you but I wont. I might not be able to hit my target with a bullet but I sure can hit you with hot brass.
Yeah, you've proved that many times. Job well done.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
Michael Reagan
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  #94  
Old 09-27-2009, 8:32 PM
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Heads up, I saw Big5 is selling one of those popup canopies for $69 after $10 instant rebate. I'm going to get one, it's 10x10, and bring it to use at Panoche. I didn't have one last time, I'll be sure to get one this time.

Turby
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  #95  
Old 09-27-2009, 8:34 PM
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Cool thanks I'll see if any local big5s have them
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  #96  
Old 09-27-2009, 8:57 PM
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I went to one Big5 today, they were out of stock. I'm going to check another one on Monday.

Turby
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  #97  
Old 09-28-2009, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BroncoBob View Post
After reviewing sorensen440's photos the fix is fairley simple. However it would take a torch and portable welder to be done in the field. To make the repair the top plate for the hinge system would have to have a hole cut in it the same size as the pipe on the lower hinge point. Then have a prefabbed section of pipe with a top cap welded on it. Once the gate is lifted into position the new pipe section with the cap is slipped into the top hinge point. Then weld around the cap to the top hinge point. Question now is who has the equipment to do this?
If welding in the field, don't forget water & shovels ...
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  #98  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:03 PM
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Default shade canopy

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Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Heads up, I saw Big5 is selling one of those popup canopies for $69 after $10 instant rebate. I'm going to get one, it's 10x10, and bring it to use at Panoche. I didn't have one last time, I'll be sure to get one this time.

Turby
Be careful; the cheaper ones I've seen don't look too durable. I just saw the FirstUp model at Walmart for $89 or so (<100). I love my First Up and constantly get compliments on it.

And yes, a definite must have for Panoche ...
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  #99  
Old 09-29-2009, 8:11 AM
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Be careful; the cheaper ones I've seen don't look too durable. I just saw the FirstUp model at Walmart for $89 or so (<100). I love my First Up and constantly get compliments on it.

And yes, a definite must have for Panoche ...
I picked one up just yesterday, I'll set it up and see if it's good - if not, back to Big5 it goes. Thanks for the Walmart tip - I'll have to check that one out.

Turby
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  #100  
Old 09-29-2009, 8:19 AM
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A tip re: Eazy-ups... In windy places (like Panoche sometimes) you need to figure out a way to anchor them down, otherwise they take off like a kite and go bouncing down the landscape like a big tumbleweed.

At my daughter's swim meets we used to use bungee cords and 5-gallon buckets filled with water from the pool, but you get the idea. There's lots of ways to do it.
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  #101  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:40 AM
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Out at Panoche some Tent stakes work took. Not much fun hauling around 5 gallon buckets full of weights.
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  #102  
Old 09-30-2009, 4:34 AM
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Out at Panoche some Tent stakes work.
Yes - in the past we've staked down our popup tents.

Turby
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  #103  
Old 09-30-2009, 6:11 AM
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Yes - in the past we've staked down our popup tents.

Turby
I haven't used 'em yet but OSH has a set of long stakes that have nice heads you can grip made by Coleman (long silver stake w/grey head that kinda looks like the charging handle of an AR15; set of 6 or 8 I think). The cash register gal was gaga over how good they were and it was only $4-6.

The canopy makes a real nice moving target when it blows down range

ric
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  #104  
Old 09-30-2009, 12:17 PM
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If it gets real windy and the steaks hold, the canopy roof can buckle.
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  #105  
Old 09-30-2009, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ricochet View Post
I haven't used 'em yet but OSH has a set of long stakes that have nice heads you can grip made by Coleman (long silver stake w/grey head that kinda looks like the charging handle of an AR15; set of 6 or 8 I think). The cash register gal was gaga over how good they were and it was only $4-6.

The canopy makes a real nice moving target when it blows down range

ric
Thanks for the OSH tip - I'll see if this thing comes with stakes and then go from there.

Turby
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  #106  
Old 09-30-2009, 3:28 PM
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Folks, update from the rangers -

Quote:
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I wanted to do some checking on the gate before I gave you an answer. We're actually getting ready to build a new gate down the road and put up a welded pipe fence in front of the target shooting area with a gate in the middle of it. The reasoning behind this is that people can still park near the road and walk out with legal targets, but they can't unload a refrigerator, etc. The vandalized gate will be going away.

Construction will probably take place next spring. If you or your guys would be interested in helping with that project, we would be more than happy to have your help. A dedication sign with your organization could also be placed on-site to reflect the BLM/club cooperation. No worries if you can't, though.
So - key points:

1) Calguns rebuilding the gate - squash this idea for now, looks like the rangers will do it in the spring.

2) Volunteer to help rebuild in the spring - let's think about gathering a list of volunteers who will help with this activity - I'm in for it!

Turby
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  #107  
Old 09-30-2009, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Folks, update from the rangers -



So - key points:

1) Calguns rebuilding the gate - squash this idea for now, looks like the rangers will do it in the spring.

2) Volunteer to help rebuild in the spring - let's think about gathering a list of volunteers who will help with this activity - I'm in for it!

Turby
Hey Turby, put my name on the list to assist with the spring rebuild project.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
Michael Reagan
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  #108  
Old 09-30-2009, 6:40 PM
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Add me as well. I think that will go a long way with them if we can have a few guys volunteer some time.
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  #109  
Old 09-30-2009, 9:36 PM
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Interesting post... I've seen the gate and the upper hinge has been shot off. It needs a new one fabricated. Why the morons didn't just shoot the padlock, I don't know. Probably couldn't hit it at 4 feet. A sign is a good idea, But it would just be used as a target unless posted on the bulletin board near the road. We should state that this area will be closed if this dumping continues. The camera is the best idea so far. Video evedence can prosecute. All we need is a license plate no.
I always bring my little weber folks. You're welcome to toss something on. I just bought a gunsafe. It was way out of my budget but a good deal, so I'm not sure if I can make this one. I'll certainly give it a shot though. If I don't go to Panoche at least once a month, I have a kiniption.
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  #110  
Old 09-30-2009, 9:38 PM
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Default fix the Panoche gate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Folks, update from the rangers -



So - key points:

1) Calguns rebuilding the gate - squash this idea for now, looks like the rangers will do it in the spring.

2) Volunteer to help rebuild in the spring - let's think about gathering a list of volunteers who will help with this activity - I'm in for it!

Turby
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  #111  
Old 09-30-2009, 9:48 PM
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Default eye in the sky (well, on the Panoche gate)

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Interesting post... I've seen the gate and the upper hinge has been shot off. It needs a new one fabricated. Why the morons didn't just shoot the padlock, I don't know. Probably couldn't hit it at 4 feet. A sign is a good idea, But it would just be used as a target unless posted on the bulletin board near the road. We should state that this area will be closed if this dumping continues. The camera is the best idea so far. Video evedence can prosecute. All we need is a license plate no.
I always bring my little weber folks. You're welcome to toss something on. I just bought a gunsafe. It was way out of my budget but a good deal, so I'm not sure if I can make this one. I'll certainly give it a shot though. If I don't go to Panoche at least once a month, I have a kiniption.
I have a camera brand new in the box that I'd be willing to donate. It's a consumer version of a surveillance camera. I believe it has RCA outputs to hook to TV/VCR (not wireless). Not like it's self contained for "out in the middle of nowhere" use but it might do the job. Sounds like just the gesture made to the BLM rangers would generate good will even if it doesn't get used.
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  #112  
Old 09-30-2009, 9:50 PM
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Good idea but nowhere to plug it in.
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  #113  
Old 10-01-2009, 8:28 AM
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Good idea but nowhere to plug it in.
Plus a camera would get shot up faster than any gate or sign ever has been. Nice gesture though.
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  #114  
Old 10-01-2009, 8:48 AM
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I'll do the welding. Let me know when.
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  #115  
Old 10-01-2009, 1:15 PM
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I'll do the welding. Let me know when.
Wow, thanks. Looks like the welding won't be needed for now, we'll revisit the gate fix in the spring when the rangers get something official together.

Turby
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  #116  
Old 10-01-2009, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ricochet View Post
I have a camera brand new in the box that I'd be willing to donate. It's a consumer version of a surveillance camera. I believe it has RCA outputs to hook to TV/VCR (not wireless). Not like it's self contained for "out in the middle of nowhere" use but it might do the job. Sounds like just the gesture made to the BLM rangers would generate good will even if it doesn't get used.
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Originally Posted by xrMike View Post
Plus a camera would get shot up faster than any gate or sign ever has been. Nice gesture though.
It's possible to build an enclosure for the camera but you'd also have to figure out how to power the camera and wirelessly transmit the signal to the ranger station. Currenty, there isn't any wired communication lines out there. Transmitting any signal wirelessly for long distances with any significant amount of power would imply getting the FCC and licensing involved.

All in all, I agree with nagorb that it isn't practical right now to do it that way. We just need to concentrate our efforts to help the rangers out in the spring when they're ready to put in the new gate.
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  #117  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:15 AM
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WWRTW
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  #118  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WeekendWarrior View Post
I cant make the weekend of the 17th, but I'm heading out there with a couple buddies on the 11th. Will make sure to bring some contractor bags with us and do some cleaning to help pave the way for you guys.
Hey that's a great attitude! Really appreciate the effort.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle..

Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution.
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  #119  
Old 10-02-2009, 3:39 PM
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Turbinator Turbinator is offline
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Originally Posted by WeekendWarrior View Post
I cant make the weekend of the 17th, but I'm heading out there with a couple buddies on the 11th. Will make sure to bring some contractor bags with us and do some cleaning to help pave the way for you guys.
Awesome, thanks! Leave the bags in a pile somewhere neatly - we'll add to it and I'll alert the rangers where to pick up the stuff.

Turby
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  #120  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:47 AM
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Doesn't look like I'll be able to make it as of now. Things might change but I could be missing out on the cleanup and shoot. Have fun. Be safe. Give Bob a break from the brass. Oh and don't forget to let him tell you about his ONE SHOT ONE KILL tannerite experience last time.
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