[mikehaas]

NRA Members' Councils of California

CALNRA: AB962 Ammo Sales Ban Heavily Amended on 9/4
9/8/2009 1:15 AM - PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY

Update - AB962 Handgun Ammo Sales Registration - Sales Ban

The bill was drastically amended on Friday, 9/4/2009. Some of the provisions deleted:

1. The new license for handgun Ammo Dealers
2. Ban on the transfer of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammo between private persons
3. Use of the DROS Fee (background Check Fees) monies for implementation of the Program

NRA and CRPA remain opposed to the bill. It still requires the:

1. Registration and finger printing of handgun Ammo Purchasers
2. Mandatory storage / Display requirements for Ammo Dealers
3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order

Stay tuned to...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962
...for more information. The bill can come up for a vote on Wednesday, 9/9/2009. If it passes the Senate it must go back to the Assembly for a final Vote. The Legislative Session ends on Friday, 9/11/2009.

Updates and contact tools available at:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962

Stop to Cow Palace Gun Show Ban!
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=sb585

[bwiese]

Thanks, Mike.

ALL: even though somewhat moderated, THIS PROPOSED LAW IS THE CAMEL'S NOSE UNDER THE TENT TO FURTHER NONSENSICAL AMMO REGULATIONS.

Please remember that once something becomes law, no matter how trivial, it's much more readily amendable in future legislation: the subsequent legislation is seen as minor increments by many, even fairly neutral-to-guns parties. Look what happened with the 'safe handgun' law - first it was just a drop test and a Roster, then it was safeties and LCIs, and finally they glued in microstamping.

DON'T LET THEM SLIP IN A FRAMEWORK FOR PATCHING IN FUTURE AMMO LEGISLATION!!! It's an attack on FFLs and an attack on ammo pricing for the everyday shooter.

If there were ever a time to spend your cell minutes, and some time faxing and emailing, it's NOW. EVERYONE'S HELP IS NEEDED.

Hell, I'll prob have $70 extra cellphone bill this month. If everyone just makes a few calls and faxes etc WE CAN KILL THIS.

We have victory in our sights, however, since they're trying to amend it to supposedly make it more passable. Let your representatives know you say NO to camel's-nose-incrementalism.

IMHO it sounds like they're trying to split the likely compromiser gun orgs away from the stance NRA+CRPA.
Let's hope these other groups don't get baited.

[jeffsenpai]

As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.

[Gh0sT]

3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order

This is a BIG WTF. Seriously, more stupid laws for the law abiding.

[cousinkix1953]

Originally Posted by jeffsenpai

As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.

And for a good reason too. The law does NOT require the PRK stores to stockpile ammo in all calibers. Most stores only have the common stuff. Your right to shoot your Nambu, Makarov, Nagant revolver etc becomes merely just a dream. Imagine the blank stares that you'll get asking for some 9mm Largo at WalMart.

I know of one place up around Sacramento which hase some this oddball ammo; but it isn't much help if somebody lives hundreds of miles away. They can't fingerprint a customer like a criminal on the telephone; so they won't be shipping ammo to so-Cal buyers either.

Most of the stores aren't stocking .357 or .44 AutoMag any more either. When's the last time that you saw a box of commercially loaded Ruger .357 Maximum, that was popular in the 80s? So much for your 2nd amendment rights in this case too.

If ammo for a legally owned handgun becomes a hassle to obtain; then maybe another lawsuit and a second Heller decision is in order down the road...

[trashman]

Time to light up the phones....the mail-order ban really would be crushing folks.

--Neill

[glockman19]

Originally Posted by Gh0sT

3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order
This is a BIG WTF. Seriously, more stupid laws for the law abiding.

This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

[trashman]

If you think the line at the Miwall booth is bad now, just imagine what it will be like at every gun show if this bill becomes law.

We need to beat this one back hard folks!

--Neill

[obeygiant]

Originally Posted by Anthonysmanifesto

AB 962 is on Second Reading. It can be taken up for a Vote on Third Reading only.

Barring a rule waiver to move up the second reading file to Third reading immediately, this bill will be eligible to be heard on Wednesday.

2nd Reading only today

A.B. No. 962-De Leon et al. (Cedillo)
An act relating to ammunition.
Vote required: 21
2009
Jun. 3-Read third time, passed, and to Senate. (Ayes 42. Noes 31. Page
2069.)
Jun. 4-In Senate. Read first time. To Com. on RLS. for assignment.
Jun. 18-Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 22-From committee chair, with author's amendments: Amend, and
re-refer to committee. Read second time, amended, and re-re-
ferred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 29-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 1-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 8-From committee: Do pass, and re-refer to Com. on APPR. Re-
referred. (Ayes 4. Noes 3.) (July 7).
Jul. 23-Joint Rule 62(a) suspended.
Aug. 31-From committee: Do pass. (Ayes 7. Noes 5.) (August 27).
(received by desk August 28, 2009 pursuant to JR61(a)(11))
Sept. 1-Read second time. To third reading.
Sept. 3-Passed on file.
Sept. 4-Read third time. Amended. To second reading.

[formula502]

So it looks like they temporarily amended to use DROS fees just for the purposes of getting it past the senate Finance committee?

Now it's again funded by the state's general-fund? Is that fatal flaw now back in?

OR

Does dropping the license requirement for vendors slash the costs of implementing this making it "not-so-bad" from a pure budget perspective?

[KylaGWolf]

Formula in otherwords they claim to raid one fund to get it past the finance committee then struck the change to get it through the senate. There is no way to make this bill less bad regardless. This is a bad zombie bill that refuses to die. The fact this bill has been through the process at least seven times and failed everytime up till now should say something. I just hope the members here on Calguns and NRA and SAF have been lighting up the phone lines and fax lines saying just how wrong this bill is.

[KylaGWolf]

Originally Posted by glockman19

This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

Since when does our Government care about interstate commerce laws.

[formula502]

Thanks Kyla.

Please do not take my "not-so-bad" comment the wrong way. I'm just trying to wrap my head around their strategies for chipping away at our arguments in an attempt to make this more palatable for fence-sitters.

Why wouldn't they leave the DROS funding in for the full senate vote?

Is it b/c they killed the dealer license requirement making the bill much cheaper to implement and thereby taking the funding arguments mostly off the table?

In the current climate, the funding arguments are a fantastic card to play. If this thing is still expensive AND coming from the general fund, we have good leverage w/ the Governor.

"Look at this dirty-pool that was used to skirt the Finance committee! This is exactly what you've been admonishing against, Governor. What message would it send to sign this bill (which is bad to begin with) after all this?"

Of course this thing is ALL KINDS of wrong, I'm just trying to figure out if one of our hole cards is still playable.

[xxG3xx]

This bill is stupid and the only point to this bill is to bring down the people that obey the laws...If gang members want guns and ammo they will get them without the 10 day wait or the limit to how many bullets they buy. The damage has been done as far as gang crime goes and its gonna still happen no matter what happens with this bill. The bill is hurting the good people and that's wrong!

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by glockman19

This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

I believe it would have to go back to the Assembly for concurrence in the Senate amendments.

Better it doesn't get through the Senate at all.

[bwiese]

Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

[HowardW56]

Originally Posted by bwiese

Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

E-mails sent.... Lots of e-mails....

[unusedusername]

Originally Posted by bwiese

Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

I've got a fax machine churning them out...

[Legasat]

Emails and faxes sent to ALL Senators!

[mfmayes49]

I hope it doesn't pass, but since this is a socialist state, it does have a good chance of becoming law. I called my state senator for all the good it will do. I hope I'm proved wrong. This is not gun control, it's people control.

[KylaGWolf]

Originally Posted by formula502

Thanks Kyla.

Please do not take my "not-so-bad" comment the wrong way. I'm just trying to wrap my head around their strategies for chipping away at our arguments in an attempt to make this more palatable for fence-sitters.

Why wouldn't they leave the DROS funding in for the full senate vote?

Is it b/c they killed the dealer license requirement making the bill much cheaper to implement and thereby taking the funding arguments mostly off the table?

In the current climate, the funding arguments are a fantastic card to play. If this thing is still expensive AND coming from the general fund, we have good leverage w/ the Governor.

"Look at this dirty-pool that was used to skirt the Finance committee! This is exactly what you've been admonishing against, Governor. What message would it send to sign this bill (which is bad to begin with) after all this?"

Of course this thing is ALL KINDS of wrong, I'm just trying to figure out if one of our hole cards is still playable.

I didn't take it wrong so no worries . As to your question yes our cards are still playable. The question is that hand a winning one...that is the million dollar question. I am hoping they don't pass this bill but worse case I say we start calling the governers office, faxing, emailing and snail mail it till he gets the message this bill is a bad idea and best to veto it.

[barrykay]

Originally Posted by jeffsenpai

As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.

I doubt you will find any Ca. Firearms/Ammo retailers against this bill. I know if I were a retailer of ammo I would be in favor of the not having to compete with Internet sales

[dfletcher]

Considering that pretty much any centerfire cartridge can be used in the T/C Encore handgun, I'd expect that on line vendors would stop shipping pretty much all ammo to California, not just "handgun" calibers like 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc. Is there even a definition of handgun ammo in the bill?

[LAWABIDINGCITIZEN]

Originally Posted by bwiese

Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

FAXes sent to assemblymember and senator. (I like sending a FAX because they have to do physically something with it. )


Arnold is next.

[dantodd]

Originally Posted by glockman19

This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.

I'm sure the Obama administration will make sure your rights are protected and pursue this if it passes.

[Trench Broom]

Just sent off my e-mail blast!

[cousinkix1953]

A.B. No. 962-De Leon et al. (Cedillo)
An act relating to ammunition.
Vote required: 21
2009
Jun. 3-Read third time, passed, and to Senate. (Ayes 42. Noes 31. Page
2069.)
Jun. 4-In Senate. Read first time. To Com. on RLS. for assignment.
Jun. 18-Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 22-From committee chair, with author's amendments: Amend, and
re-refer to committee. Read second time, amended, and re-re-
ferred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 29-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 1-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 8-From committee: Do pass, and re-refer to Com. on APPR. Re-
referred. (Ayes 4. Noes 3.) (July 7).
Jul. 23-Joint Rule 62(a) suspended.
Aug. 31-From committee: Do pass. (Ayes 7. Noes 5.) (August 27).
(received by desk August 28, 2009 pursuant to JR61(a)(11))
Sept. 1-Read second time. To third reading.
Sept. 3-Passed on file.
Sept. 4-Read third time. Amended. To second reading.

Wow! This POS is the brainchild of a moron who beat us to death with Kommiefornia drivers licenses bills for illegal aliens that were defeated several times. Never mind that the DMV's plastic cards can be used for voter registration fraud and illegal purchases of firearms and ammunition in the stores, by individuals not allowed to posess guns under a federal law.

Don't these stupid f---- ever read the form #4473s? This alone should have been the kiss of death for a crackpot license scheme.

AB 962 is a case of "here we go again". How many times have I said, "that candidates supported by the Brady Bunch are the first ones to make a mockery of existing gun control laws? Nice to know this kind of BS is supported by corrupt anti-gun police chief in our crime infested sanctuary cities. They won't call ICE if an illegal alien gang banger is caught with a banned assault rifle...

[POLICESTATE]

I don't see why I should have to be fingerprinted for buying ammo, I don't get fingerprinted for buying beer, for all they know I've been passing out free bottles to preschoolers for years!

It's insulting, and I need to find a fax machine tomorrow.

[Ifticar]

Originally Posted by dfletcher

Considering that pretty much any centerfire cartridge can be used in the T/C Encore handgun, I'd expect that on line vendors would stop shipping pretty much all ammo to California, not just "handgun" calibers like 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc. Is there even a definition of handgun ammo in the bill?

That is a pessimistic result. The optimistic result is the the buyer certifies that the ammo is to be used in a long gun. This is what is currently done with .22LR.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by POLICESTATE

I don't see why I should have to be fingerprinted for buying ammo, I don't get fingerprinted for buying beer, for all they know I've been passing out free bottles to preschoolers for years!

It's insulting, and I need to find a fax machine tomorrow.

But beer doesn't kill other people!






Oh, wait. . .

[steelrain82]

you know i feel like i cant participate because i wouldnt know what to say or who to say it to. i feel like those people that talk the talk but cant walk the walk. and thats only because i dont understand even a fraction of the stuff most people mention. im just so new to the gun community as far as being involved with laws and stuff. but i do know that this bill is garbage. i sure dont want to have to pay $40 for 20 rds of .303 when i can get 60 rds of prvi for the same price

[cousinkix1953]

Originally Posted by Theseus

But beer doesn't kill other people!

Oh, wait. . .

Neither do guns. When is the last time that you saw an unoccupied car (with empty beer cans on the floorboards) driving itself and running somebody over?

People kill other people, when they drive dunk and misuse firearms...

[woodsman]

Lets not get complacent. Keep the contacts going and spread the word.

[bwiese]

PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."

[IGOTDIRT4U]

Originally Posted by bwiese

PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."

Maybe that's just the thing we need; JB's condemnation of this bill. After all, wouldn't the program be run through his dept? His budget? His loss of potential 2A voters? (for those of us that support him for possible Gov)

[nick]

Question. I called, faxed, and sent emails to all assemblymembers and all senators, as well as the Governor's office. Would it help or hurt if I do it again (and again )?

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by nick

Question. I called, faxed, and sent emails to all assemblymembers and all senators, as well as the Governor's office. Would it help or hurt if I do it again (and again )?

RINSE, LATHER & REPEAT!!

It will not hurt and will only help.

[cousinkix1953]

Originally Posted by bwiese

PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."

If the mass media wasn't so lame, they would ask Jerry Brown about this too. Maybe he recognizes some of the problems we mention here too. What good is your 2nd Amendment rights, if the local stores don't stock ammo for your old gun and you can't buy it on the internet either?

[mmartin]

so I one-clicked and sent email. I got several replies of this variety: "Due to the overwhelming volume of e-mails I receive each day, I ask that you visit my website to submit your comments"
does anyone know if that means my email went in the trash and will only get read if I go to the website? or do they get seen anyway?
thx, megan

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by mmartin

so I one-clicked and sent email. I got several replies of this variety: "Due to the overwhelming volume of e-mails I receive each day, I ask that you visit my website to submit your comments"
does anyone know if that means my email went in the trash and will only get read if I go to the website? or do they get seen anyway?
thx, megan

Depends on whether the staff (whether or not as directed by the Elect) agree with your position expressed.

If they agree, they count it. If they do not agree, most seem to be less than accurately reported.

Now and again one of the Elect actually takes Real Responsibility™ and listens to both sides, but it is not so common as it should be. IMHO.