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  #1  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:29 PM
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Default 07FFL/01FFL

Hello all,

So I was having a hypothetical conversation with a hypothetical 01 FFL today and the plus/cons of an 07ffl came up. I am confused on what you need an 07 for.

Would you need an 07FFL to:

1) Assemble AR-15 type firearms...
a) From stripped lowers
b) Have disassembled complete AR shipped it, then add bullet button and reassemble.
c) Same with AR pistols


Thanks for the help,

Mike
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:33 AM
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anyone?
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2009, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
Would you need an 07FFL to:

1) Assemble AR-15 type firearms...
a) From stripped lowers
b) Have disassembled complete AR shipped it, then add bullet button and reassemble.
c) Same with AR pistols
a) yes.
Manufacturing an "other" into a "long gun" or "handgun"

b) depends.
01-FFL dealer with an assault weapon permit can recieve an AW and modify it to be a non-AW.

c) yes.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-02-2009 at 3:07 AM..
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2009, 9:03 PM
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No reply needed well said Quiet.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2009, 8:57 AM
freakshow10mm freakshow10mm is offline
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Yes on all three. According to the law, only an 07 FFL may add parts to a weapon before final 4473 transfer. This is federal, not state.

All 07 FFLs must also register with the US State Department under ITAR. Even if you don't export, you must register. The law is very clear on this. Cost for registration is $2250 yearly. Your liability insurance is also going to be much higher than an 01 FFL.
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  #6  
Old 09-20-2009, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Yes on all three. According to the law,
All 07 FFLs must also register with the US State Department under ITAR.
Not quite. The law requires you to submit a Commodities Jurisdiction Request to the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls for every thing you manufacture. If your weapon is specifically designed for military use and has no predominate civilian use then you must register. I have talked to two different people there and they both told me that no matter what I was manufacturing, be it a scope on a .22, they wanted a CJR. They told me such a thing would probably get tossed back in the 15 day "early decision" period, but if it was questionable they might take the entire 65 days to decide.

Last edited by billslugg; 10-04-2009 at 4:30 PM.. Reason: removed the word "not'. It must be designed for military use.
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2009, 7:25 PM
freakshow10mm freakshow10mm is offline
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US State Department told me as an ammunition, bullet, firearm, machine gun, and silencer manufacturer my company must be registered with the State Dept under ITAR regardless if my products are intended solely for domestic civilian or LE use only.

Quote:
Part 122

Registration of Manufacturers and Exporters

Sec. 122.1 Registration requirements.

(a) General. Any person who engages in the United States in the business
of either manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing
defense services is required to register with the Office of Munitions
Control. Manufacturers who do not engage in exporting must nevertheless
register.


(b) Exemptions. Registration is not required for: ...

(2) Persons whose pertinent business activity is confined to the
production of unclassified technical data only. ...

(4) Persons who engage only in the fabrication of articles for
experimental or scientific purposes, including research and development.

(c) Purpose. Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S.
Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain
manufacturing and exporting activities. Registration does not confer any
export rights or privileges. It is generally a precondition to the
issuance of any license or other approval under this subchapter.
Did some searching on ITAR.

Quote:
Sec. 120.3 Policy on designating defense articles and services.

Designations of defense articles and defense services are based primarily
on whether an article or service is deemed to be inherently military in
character.
Whether it has a predominantly military application is taken
into account.
The fact that an article or service may be used for both
military and civilian purposes does not in and of itself determine whether
it is subject to the export controls of this subchapter. (Narrow
exceptions to this general policy exist with respect to exports of certain
spare parts and components in Categories V(d); VIII (e) and (g); XI(e);
XII(c); and XVI(b).) The intended use of the article or service after its
export (i.e., for a military or civilian purpose) is also not relevant in
determining whether the export is subject to the controls of this
subchapter.

Sec. 120.4 Relation to Department of Commerce regulations.

If an article or service is placed on the United States Munitions List,
its export is regulated exclusively by the Department of State. Exports
which are not subject to the controls of this subchapter are generally
under the regulatory jurisdiction of the Department of Commerce pursuant
to the Export Administration Act of 1979, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2401
through 2420) and the implementing Export Administration Regulations (15
CFR parts 368 through 399).

Sec. 120.5 Commodity jurisdiction procedure.

The Office of Munitions Control will provide, upon written request, a
determination on whether a particular article is included on the United
States Munitions List. Such requests should be accompained by five copies
of the letter requesting a determination and any brochures or other
documentation or specifications relating to the article.
A "commodity
jurisdiction" procedure is used if a doubt exists within the U.S.
Government on whether an article is on the Munitions List. The procedure
entails consultations among the Departments of State, Commerce and
Defense.
Interesting. You may be onto something. I'll get my 5 letters and documents typed up and sent to the US State Department first thing tomorrow. If you are correct and it is deemed my domestic only products are not defensive articles, then the government owes my company the $4,500 it paid to the US State Department under ITAR.
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2009, 4:50 PM
billslugg billslugg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Interesting. You may be onto something.
If you note the first quote you made, it refers to "any manufacturer of defense munitions." I went to the list of defense munitions and found that all firearms qualify. But then I found the exclusion for "non military design and predominant civilian use." Then I found the Commodities Jurisdiction Request procedure. I plan to file one requesting a ruling on adding a scope to a .22 for squirrel hunting and see what they say.

Domestic use has nothing to do with it. The keys are "designed for the military" and "no predominant civilian use". Even if you do not plan to export them, you would still have to register.

If all of your CJR's come back negative then you do not have to registrer. They were very clear to me on this.

Last edited by billslugg; 10-04-2009 at 4:31 PM.. Reason: again, it must be designed for military use with no predominate civilian use.
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2009, 4:52 PM
freakshow10mm freakshow10mm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billslugg View Post
But then I found the exclusion for "non military design and predominant civilian use."
What CFR is this specifically?
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
What CFR is this specifically?
It is in the Code of Federal Regulations,
Title 22 - Foreign Relations,
Chapter 1 - Department of State
Subchapter M - International Trade in Arms Regulations

Part 120.3 - Policy on Designating and Determining Defense Articles and Services
An article...may be designated..a defense article if it:
(a) Is specifically designed, developed, configured, adapted or modified for a military application, and
(i) Does not have predominant civil applications, and
(ii) Does not have performance equivalent (defined by form, fit and function) to those of an article or service used for civil applications; or...

also:

Part 120.4 Commodity Jurisdiction
(b)Registration with the DDTC ...is not required prior to the submission of a commodities jurisdiction request.
(d)(1) The determination that an article...does not have predominant civil applications shall be made by the Department of State...on a case by case basis...

Last edited by billslugg; 10-05-2009 at 11:51 AM.. Reason: added 120.4
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2009, 11:47 AM
freakshow10mm freakshow10mm is offline
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I'll have to look into that. Would save me $2250 a year.

Then over the weekend I signed up as a government contractor, so I don't know how that will play out now.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2009, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Then over the weekend I signed up as a government contractor, so I don't know how that will play out now.
The registration requirements and exemptions are outlined in 122.1 (a) and (b).

The only exemptions are:
1) US government employees while on the job
2) Purveyors of unclassified technical data
3) Anyone covered under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954

122.1(c) says that registration is a prerequisite to any license issued under ITAR.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2009, 5:34 PM
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R&D is also exempt.
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