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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 08-15-2009, 9:18 AM
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There is always a risk of private property owners trying to restrict carry (or any fundamental right) on their premises. In California state courts in a case called Pruneyard many large commercial properties were deemed to be the equivalent of the public square for the expression of speech. I don't think we can get that but we may try at a later date.

However, the realities of California carry law are this. When we get shall issue through the courts, there will be much less publicity leading to property owners posting signs. In all likelihood, no laws will be passed so the current Penal Code will be what we all carry under. Property owners have no ability to stop someone from concealed carrying beyond asking them to leave if they find them concealed carrying - an unlikely event. When they ask you to leave, then you have to leave or be arrested for trespassing. Moral of that story is, be properly concealed.

As to the supposed moral and legal right of property owners - that's not such a clear argument. Just because they post a sign on their property that says they can strip search you randomly doesn't mean that they can.

In addition I hear some fear mongering that cities or counties are going to do everything they can to stop shall issue. That argument shows a strong lack of understanding of the Federal Courts. Southern cities tried to frustrate desegregation all the time - until Federal Courts ruled against them. Once we have an appellate decision that the right to carry is a fundamental right, the additional cases against those who are recalcitrant are virtual cake walks that pay the plaintiff's attorney's fees.

Finally, there seems to be an undercurrent that we should keep "may issue" so that we don't run into these problems. That smacks of a certain class of cutting of your nose to spite your face. What that does is denies the right of self defense to anyone who lives in an urban county - 70-80% of the population of California - just to protect the current privileges of a small minority in this state.

-Gene
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  #42  
Old 08-15-2009, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Finally, there seems to be an undercurrent that we should keep "may issue" so that we don't run into these problems. That smacks of a certain class of cutting of your nose to spite your face. What that does is denies the right of self defense to anyone who lives in an urban county - 70-80% of the population of California - just to protect the current privileges of a small minority in this state.
Only a naïve fool would fail to recognize or acknowledge that he is one sheriff election, recall, or heartbeat away from losing his CCW for the foreseeable future. Just ask Orange County.

Ideally, Shall Issue in CA is administered with the ease I described in the “OR Non Resident Application” thread and maintains the freedoms experienced by current CCWs.

I know, I know… have your cake and eat it…

It will be interesting to see where we land and how the anti’s respond.
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  #43  
Old 08-15-2009, 6:10 PM
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Only a naïve fool would fail to recognize or acknowledge that he is one sheriff election, recall, or heartbeat away from losing his CCW for the foreseeable future. Just ask Orange County.
Pre Sykes, yes. Post Sykes revoking a CCW will be like revoking a newspaper's business license.

-Gene
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  #44  
Old 08-15-2009, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Pre Sykes, yes. Post Sykes revoking a CCW will be like revoking a newspaper's business license.

-Gene
My statement is in reference to current "May Issue", not future potential "Shall Issue".
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2009, 11:51 AM
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My statement is in reference to current "May Issue", not future potential "Shall Issue".
Yes and he's agreeing with you while providing a with a possible glimpse into the future.
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
Yes and he's agreeing with you while providing a with a possible glimpse into the future.
Simply reinforcing clarification. I didn’t want Gene to misinterpret my statement as implying that he was the “naïve fool” I made reference to.
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