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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-22-2005, 1:47 PM
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This is a cross post from lightfighter.com

I've been thinking about making a custom setup for my SOCOM but being in PRK makes things a little difficult. The goal is to have something that is compact enough that I can throw in the trunk and go plinking in the near by range but still able to go hunting in my friends private ground and shoot some long distant iron also. And one of these days if I go to a tactical carbine class, I hope I won't get laugh at if I take this gun.
Since I am a southpaw, the setup is also is altered a little to fit my strong and weak side.

With the socom scout rail and a smith enterprise mount, I really don't need to get a top rail so I decided to just add side and bottom rails to the stock. I did add tail switch slot for on the stock. Also the left and right switch location is offset to fit my weak hand.

A cheek rest is almost a necessity for any scope use in M1A. And the LOP is shorten to 11.5 inch for a better carbine type use.

Being in PRK, a pistol grip is impossible so I had the stock made as vertical as I can without pissing CA DOJ. This is very similar to McMillan's M3A stock for M1A. Front vertical grip is also a no no so I made the extend mag well grip shamelessly borrowed from LAW483.

The sling hook is tricky to locate to say the least. I want it to be a single point attachment but it cannot interfere the op-rod nor my grip hand. The current location is a good compromise.

Finally, the Horus 1-4x Talon complete the optic side for me.




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Old 02-22-2005, 2:10 PM
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VERY NICE!
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Old 02-22-2005, 2:27 PM
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I concur, so are the McMillian style stocks not considered a pistol grip? Anything in writing?
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Old 02-22-2005, 2:38 PM
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this is not considered pistol grip because per DOJ page:

pistol grip description

"Although these firearms are centerfire, semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting detachable magazines, they do not have conspicuously protruding pistol grips because none of the grips allow for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing."
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2005, 2:42 PM
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I checked with McMillan before on M3A (don't confuse it with the M2A which is no no).
The key is the imaginary line drawn from the top of the trigger. Your thumb webbing cannot drop below that.
As usual, this is not a legal opinion. YMMV, so this is not a writing
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2005, 4:05 PM
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CAKE-N
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2005, 5:13 PM
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I bet if you sent a picture to 2 people at the DOJ, 1 might say yes it's ok & 1 will say NO! & where do you live?


just kidding.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2005, 7:38 PM
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It's very different. Who made the stock?
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2005, 8:33 PM
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It's done by a member in Battlerifles.com. He lives in Nor Cal so it is easy for me to really custom made by stock. The grip is made to measured, so are the tape switch slot. The rail and sling location is also tailored my southpaw and my two surefires light. I also have to give credit to LAW483 on the enhance magwell which I shamelessly copied. The overall cost of the stock with everything is $340 shipping included. That's a very good price when compared with any other custom stock you can find in the market.
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Old 02-23-2005, 9:13 PM
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I like it! Very cool indeed.
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2005, 12:45 PM
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1) I like the ergo with vertical type grips, but its a personal subjective preference

2) I wish I could but VFG is an evil feature according to CADOJ
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2005, 4:23 PM
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If there is a chance to have VFG, I wouldn't copy the extended magwell. It takes up significant space on the shorty 10 rnd mag.
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Old 02-24-2005, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LAW483:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jjc:
If there is a chance to have VFG, I wouldn't copy the extended magwell. It takes up significant space on the shorty 10 rnd mag.
Quote:
I also have to give credit to LAW483 on the enhance magwell which I shamelessly copied.
jjc,

Your right. I designed the magwell partially as a very natural place to put your support hand. If you look at pictures of our troops overseas with M14s, you will see they put their hand exactly where the magwell is. If you want a VFG don't get the magwell. Also a good point about 10 rnd mags, I designed it with 20s in mind.
Updated 22 may 05
I though some of these pics would also be of interest to those who are viewing this thread. The stock below is finished and ready to ship. It was duplicated and is available in laminated wood at this time. It's my Vertical Grip Off-Hand Stock. This particular one will has a thumbwheel adjustable cheekpiece and buttstock spacer system installed. Although this customer did want the LAW483 Enhanced Mag-Well (TM) He did not want the LAW483 Enhanced Forend with Rails (Shown on the two stocks below)






Take Care,

Tony </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2005, 10:20 PM
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Tony,
Great looking stock. Do you mind letting me know how much did it cost for all the mods?
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2005, 11:13 PM
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Cool, Tony. How difficult is it to pop the trigger guard with the grip snugged up like that?
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2005, 3:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jjc:
Tony,
Great looking stock. Do you mind letting me know how much did it cost for all the mods?
jjc,

Thanks for the compliment!

I'll have to get back with you later on that as I have made some changes. I'll have prices posted on my website and place an ad on the buy-sell forum when I have these all set in laminated wood.

Take Care,

Tony
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2005, 3:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by esskay:
Cool, Tony. How difficult is it to pop the trigger guard with the grip snugged up like that?
esskay,

It's easy. I made the clearances just right and easy to grip the trigger guard. It's purpose is to index the shooting hand on the grip. It also is visually pleasing as it does fill the gap.

Take Care,

Tony
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2005, 1:00 PM
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Good job! That thing looks awesome!
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:45 AM
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w o w

Quite the investment.
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  #20  
Old 04-06-2005, 1:21 PM
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Not really, it's just a regular SOCOM with a $340 stock. Cheaper than SOCOM II with a lot more custom things I like as a carbine and lighter too.
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Old 04-16-2005, 3:12 PM
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Yet another update.
I got myself a Sage EBR-Cali and I am still trying to decide to put the SOCOM to it or a full length M1A. Here is a comparison between the stock lengths. The back of the Sage is basically a Remington 870 like tail so Sage choose to use the Speedfeed high comb stock (bottom one). I found the LOP a little too long (~15 inch) and so I experiment with the Youth stock which seems to give a more reasonable LOP with a ITC cheek pad.
I will work with Tony LAW483 to see if there is a better stock end that will be more suitable for the EBR. Another interesting note, with the chopmod EBR being standard from Sage now (shorter front length). The net weight with the youth stock and cheek pad is just 3.5lb !! Almost equal to a standard synthetic M1A stock. No more complain of heavy stock.

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Old 04-16-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jjc:
Yet another update.
I got myself a Sage EBR-Cali and I am still trying to decide to put the SOCOM to it or a full length M1A. Here is a comparison between the stock lengths. The back of the Sage is basically a Remington 870 like tail so Sage choose to use the Speedfeed high comb stock (bottom one). I found the LOP a little too long (~15 inch) and so I experiment with the Youth stock which seems to give a more reasonable LOP with a ITC cheek pad.
I will work with Tony LAW483 to see if there is a better stock end that will be more suitable for the EBR. Another interesting note, with the chopmod EBR being standard from Sage now (shorter front length). The net weight with the youth stock and cheek pad is just 3.5lb !! Almost equal to a standard synthetic M1A stock. No more complain of heavy stock.
Hey jjc,
Where did you get the Cali-Sage stock? Fulton used to have them but I don't see them on their site anymore (they also used to have one with a wood stock, looks like Sage modified it to take Remington shotgun stocks instead?)
Thanks!

Oh, and how about keeping the Socom as is and putting a 18" bush barreled LRB railed receiver in the Sage?
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2005, 11:41 PM
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www.securityarms.com has the cheapest price. But I choose to use Reed's because they are local and from what I gether installing the EBR is not a trivia task and I want Reeds guys to walk it through with me once. So I use a local shop.

Authorized Cali delears

REED’S INDOOR RANGE
SANTA CLARA – 408-970-9872

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greg@socalgun.com

I sorta want to make the EBR a precision shooting platform other than a carbine door kicker type of rifle. Afterall, those stock tail ends don't lend themselves for those type of use. But the free bedding and semi-floating barrel makes the EBR a good accurizing option. Plus now there is LaRue EER mount which will make the front rails ideal for any scope mounting.

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Old 04-17-2005, 3:15 AM
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Thanks for the info!!

That LaRue mount is interesting... so I presume you're thinking about mounting it backwards on the front rails so the scope would then be hanging over the receiver? Clever...
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2005, 9:37 PM
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Ok, after "weighing" in the options (literally ) I decided to put the SOCOM in the EBR and get a scout on the custom stock. The combined SOCOM and Sage EBR with the youth stock is only 10 lbs. 1 lb more than a standard SOCOM and 1 lb less than the SOCOM II.
My custom stock with the Smith mount is just slightly heavier so the scout barrle will go to the custom stock.

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Old 04-30-2005, 10:34 AM
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I'm also interested in replacing my SOCOM 16's stock with a sage EBR-Cali stock.

jjc, Can you answer a couple of questions for me?

1) Can you still use the iron sites with the EBR Cali stock?

2) After having the guys at Reed's walk you through the installation of the stock, how hard would it have been to do yourself?
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2005, 11:33 AM
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Actually, I ended up putting it in myself one night.

The answers :
1) Yes. But you need the ARMS #22 High to see thru with the scope ring or pop the QD ring out.

2) Warifle has a good thread on lessons learned on installing EBR, read careful especially the advice given by SecurityArms.
100% of people have the most problem in getting the rod guide block out and putting in the EBR rod guide and align it with the stock. Get a good barrel clamp and carefully hammer it out. It is also very important to put the screws in for the op rod guide block while you are hammering it back in. The block in some area is quite thin so if you don't put the screws in as a support, you might bend the area enough you won't be able to put the screw in later.

Keep checking the alignment as you push the rod guide in because you might not be able to twist it back inline after it is fully inserted.

The rest is cake.
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Old 05-22-2005, 12:55 PM
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JJC,

Are you still using your SOCOM in the Sage stock or did you switch back to your custom first custom stock? If you did switch back, can you tell me why?

I was curious, how is the weight distribution with the Sage stock? Is the rifle very nose heavy? I'm very close to picking one of these up myself, but the weight distribution thing has me a little nervous. I'm also looking around for a Remington 870 butt stock with an adjustable cheek piece. All I’ve been able to find so far is something like this, which I really don’t like. What I really want, as far as a butt stock is concerned, is a McMillan M3A type butt stock, but I doubt I can find one that would fit.
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Old 05-22-2005, 1:24 PM
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Mael,

I'm working on what you described. It's basically a Semi-Vertical Ambidextrous Grip version of this:






I can offer this for those who don't whish to wait. (11.5" LOP)




Take Care,

Tony
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Old 05-22-2005, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mael:
JJC,

Are you still using your SOCOM in the Sage stock or did you switch back to your custom first custom stock? If you did switch back, can you tell me why?

I was curious, how is the weight distribution with the Sage stock? Is the rifle very nose heavy? I'm very close to picking one of these up myself, but the weight distribution thing has me a little nervous. I'm also looking around for a Remington 870 butt stock with an adjustable cheek piece. All I’ve been able to find so far is something like this, which I really don’t like. What I really want, as far as a butt stock is concerned, is a McMillan M3A type butt stock, but I doubt I can find one that would fit.
The problem with any Remington stock on the Sage is the LOP. If you are using it with a long barrel M1A, that should be fine (it's about 14-15 inch LOP). For carbine type stock, I really like it to be ~12 inch LOP. You can shorten it a little with the youth stock but you need a high cheekpad like this to work.



The Sage is front heavy but the now standard chop mod makes it better.

The reason why I switch my SOCOM to the Sage is I am saving up the CQB stock for an 18 inch crazy horse type build with the LBR M25 receiver next year. From what little I know the Sage just won't go with the SEI medium heavy barrel without mod so the CQB stock will be a nice fit.

Tony,
You stocks are awesome, as usual.
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Old 05-23-2005, 9:01 AM
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Tony,

That butt stock looks very interesting. Does that black thingie on the end allow you to adjust the LOP? Please IM me when you have the final version available.

JJC,

Thanks for the information. I expected the SAGE to be a little front heavy, hopefully it won't be too annoying. Did you notice any improvement in accuracy at ranges of 100 yards and out after you installed the SAGE?
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mael:
Tony,

That butt stock looks very interesting. Does that black thingie on the end allow you to adjust the LOP? Please IM me when you have the final version available.
Mael,

That is 2ea 1" spacers to make the LOP adjustable from 12.5" to 14.5" per the customer's request. The recoil pad is a Pachmayr D-550.

Take Care,

Tony
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  #33  
Old 05-23-2005, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mael:
JJC,

Thanks for the information. I expected the SAGE to be a little front heavy, hopefully it won't be too annoying. Did you notice any improvement in accuracy at ranges of 100 yards and out after you installed the SAGE?
With my shooting skills and feeding only surplus aussie ammos, no I can't tell any differences .
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Old 05-31-2005, 7:57 PM
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Last edited by donger; 11-26-2012 at 8:09 PM..
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  #35  
Old 05-31-2005, 10:05 PM
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Like I said before, this is a shameless copy of Tony Law483's stock with a few mod for my own personal need. I am sure Tony can set you up with something similar if you contact him. My own stock is a one time favor from a local stock maker who doesn't want to get into large production.
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by donger:
jjc,

I've seen your pics on battlerifles and couldn't help lusting over it. In fact I have a socom 16 on the way and wanted to know if you could pm the info so that I could get the a similar setup as yours. Thanks
donger,

I have more stocks in the works. They will be offered first in laminated wood and months later in fiberglass; new stocks not reworked USGI stocks.

Take Care,

Tony
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Old 06-02-2005, 8:55 AM
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Does anyone here know of a company that manufactures one of these types of stocks for the Robinson M96 California Recon rifle?

It seems like it would be rather easy to make. A stock like this for the M96 would make the rifle WAY easier and nicer to shoot.

Could someone here please photoshop a prototype of this potential configuration?

Thanks
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2005, 9:12 AM
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Quote:
Does anyone here know of a company that manufactures one of these types of stocks for the Robinson M96 California Recon rifle?

It seems like it would be rather easy to make. A stock like this for the M96 would make the rifle WAY easier and nicer to shoot.
From what I remember looking at the M96 the trigger would still be too far from the stock and below the line.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does anyone here know of a company that manufactures one of these types of stocks for the Robinson M96 California Recon rifle?

It seems like it would be rather easy to make. A stock like this for the M96 would make the rifle WAY easier and nicer to shoot.
From what I remember looking at the M96 the trigger would still be too far from the stock and below the line. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, you'd need really long fingers:
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:00 PM
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I've heard of M96 owners in the PRK securely sowing a modified AR type pistol grip into the palm of a glove -- simply slip it onto the post when firing -- technically it isn't permanently attached!
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