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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:30 PM
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Default Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry

If you have a concealed permit for California this thread is not for you. You will think its stupid. If you have no desire to protect yourself with a gun outside your home or business this thread is not for you either. I found myself thread jacking some other ops Locked container thread so I decided to start my own.
This is a thread dedicated to LUCC. I have read various threads at different periods here on CalGuns and have come to the conclusion that if I have the funds to defend myself this might be a legal (or defendable) alternative to concealed carry. Here is my photoshop of this idea.

This is not ideal. Ideal would be a permit. but in a crowded theater with a gunman threatening my family It would be faster and more than likely safer than going to my car to get my gun. If someone produced this would you wear it or something similar.
I belive an unloaded gun in a locked container with a full mag in the locked container with it is feasible. The lock is pushbutton so no visualization is necessary. Your combo could be top right button down, the rest up.
With a little training you might add 1-2 seconds to get cartridge in chamber.
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:36 PM
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I love the idea of a locked holster for LUCC. I think the lock may be better if it was incorporated into the strap. You could use the same "push button" idea, but have buttons on the strap or something.

The problem I see with a locked holster, is that everybody will know what you've got in the holster. Then again, it'd be legal to conceal with a jacket or whatnot.
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Old 08-09-2009, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
This is not ideal. Ideal would be a permit. but in a crowded theater with a gunman threatening my family It would be faster and more than likely safer than going to my car to get my gun
.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping
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Old 08-09-2009, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping
I'm thinking the OP had in mind the school shootings in which teachers/staff had CCWs in their cars and ran out to get them. Just my opinion.
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Old 08-09-2009, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
.

At the risk of thread crapping,
If you make it out to your car,you have escaped the danger already,why would you go back in there?You did take your family with you outside right? ........ Just asking/not thread crapping
Its just an example.
I forgot to tell you my son was taken hostage with a knife. The dude is on meth and cant see straight. Looking to protect my son I realize that my gun is in my car as I start to scurry out the theater I remember I am carrying Locked and unloaded so I reach down and hit the lock and in the darkness of the theater. I slide my pistol out and load the magazine while under the sound of my cough I rack the slide.

Thanks for seeing my error.
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Old 08-09-2009, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmaster View Post
Its just an example.
I forgot to tell you my son was taken hostage with a knife. The dude is on meth and cant see straight. Looking to protect my son I realize that my gun is in my car as I start to scurry out the theater I remember I am carrying Locked and unloaded so I reach down and hit the lock and in the darkness of the theater. I slide my pistol out and load the magazine while under the sound of my cough I rack the slide.

Thanks for seeing my error.
In that case,Take care of binness.
I think it's just easy for people to get to thinking that since thet CCW that they are responsible for everybody within eyesight,wich they are not.I'm not saying that I think you are/would be one of these people.I'm just saying this for the benefit of those who may not know.If you are not fearing for your life or families lives,you better act wisely
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Old 08-09-2009, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
In that case,Take care of binness.
I think it's just easy for people to get to thinking that since thet CCW that they are responsible for everybody within eyesight,wich they are not.I'm not saying that I think you are/would be one of these people.I'm just saying this for the benefit of those who may not know.If you are not fearing for your life or families lives,you better act wisely
Desert_Rat:
I appreciate your input.
The point I am trying to make is that we dont wait for our kitchen to catch fire to then run to Home Depot and buy an extinguisher. No different should I go out to my car and get a weapon If Im being shot at in a movie theater.
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Old 08-10-2009, 2:40 PM
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I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge in this area, as this is a new concept to me. I suppose I had wrongly assumed that carrying a concealed handgun, even if it were locked and unloaded, would be breaking some law. Is this actually legal in CA?

Follow-up - How could you convince the police or a jury that you weren't carrying loaded with no CCW and just dangled a lock off your holster so that you could say it was unloaded and locked until danger reared it's head?
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Old 08-10-2009, 2:50 PM
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I understand if this should be taken to a new thread, but since you are locking a holster, and the legalities of such, and have posed a scenario what about this idea? A glock is fairly easy to dismantle, and you can insert any gun easily taken apart, I am just using glock as an example. What if you were carrying the "pieces" of your gun around in this holster, locked or otherwise, and then if in the scenario above, you reassemble the gun pop in your magazine, and then take care of business.

I do realize that in a true danger situation, you will probably be shaking too hard to get the gun back together, but the point is, if you have nerves of steel, why can't you just carry around all of the pieces required to make a gun if needed?
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Old 08-10-2009, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fw10ring View Post
Follow-up - How could you convince the police or a jury that you weren't carrying loaded with no CCW and just dangled a lock off your holster so that you could say it was unloaded and locked until danger reared it's head?
This is why I am bringing this up.
First I must reply by saying I am not a lawyer. I could not imagine to begin to give out any legal advice. No amount of reading or assuming on my part will ever stop a DA from prosecuting someone they belive has broken the law.
IMO This is the PC that a DA will use to convince the jury that you broken the law..

California basically says that there is no way to transport a gun period. Penal Code 12025 creates the crime of carrying a concealed firearm. but.... 12026.1 says no transportation unless locked in container and your in your motor vehicle or to and from directly... read next 12026.2(b)
Here it is if you dont want to look it up.
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the
firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
...
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key
lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

Now here is the exemption to the above law.

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances
.
...
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

This is the part I am interperting. "deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary" could eaisily be where ever I need to protect myself.
So there it is a I read it.
Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry (LUCC) is illegal (PC12025)until 12026.2(b) gives an exemption to 12026.1 which is the exemption to 12025.

The law is not black and white. Unfortunately it is open to interpretation.
Now this is the great part about this forum. Those of us that are misinformed or ill advised can sit back and read the posts of the others that know more than we do and can advise us on this.
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  #11  
Old 08-10-2009, 5:09 PM
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It seems like half the question is, what is a "Place" as defined in this context?


12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
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Old 08-10-2009, 9:40 PM
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could a lock be a type that uses magnet for a key instead of combo or key lock?
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTecalo View Post
could a lock be a type that uses magnet for a key instead of combo or key lock?
Sure why not. It could also be an RF ID tag like the key card in secure work areas. I thought about a simple electronic 2 button lock. Button A and Button B with a combo like AABA. Why cant it be mounted on a sholder rig? Why cant it be red leather with a big white cross on it that says "First Aid"

Cop would have a hard time convincing a jury that it wasnt locked in a "secure" container if even he couldnt open it. Locked around your waist and locked up. Thats pretty secure.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fw10ring View Post
It seems like half the question is, what is a "Place" as defined in this context?


12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision
(a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision
(d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations
between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
12026.2 happily gives a long list of places, and then says
Quote:
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
That (c) clause has been interpreted to mean 'the legislature does not claim to have listed all possible legal instances of carry'.

If you look at the list, you should notice that generally transport is legal between places where it is legal to have or use a handgun. If that's the case for your transport, odds are reasonable that such use might fall under (c).

You are, however, subject to the whim of a court on whether what you do is actually covered by that clause.
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Old 08-11-2009, 6:30 AM
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Under these transportation rules, it might be a tough sell to a jury so say that you were just transporting when you had your weapon at the movies, or the local zoo for instance. Anyone know if there has been any precedence set in court yet?
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Old 08-11-2009, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig View Post
I understand if this should be taken to a new thread, but since you are locking a holster, and the legalities of such, and have posed a scenario what about this idea? A glock is fairly easy to dismantle, and you can insert any gun easily taken apart, I am just using glock as an example. What if you were carrying the "pieces" of your gun around in this holster, locked or otherwise, and then if in the scenario above, you reassemble the gun pop in your magazine, and then take care of business.

I do realize that in a true danger situation, you will probably be shaking too hard to get the gun back together, but the point is, if you have nerves of steel, why can't you just carry around all of the pieces required to make a gun if needed?
And adding the step of having to reassemble the weapon helps how?

Based on your thinking, since the frame is actually the firearm, why not just keep the frame in the holster and hide the individual pieces in different pockets all over your body. Or, you could get a whole group of people together and each of them could carry one of the pieces.

#1 choice = CCW or LOC. CCW not likely in most cases, LOC only in unincorporated areas.

#2 choice = UOC. Allows the individual quick access to both the weapon and the ammuntion, and with some practice the weapon can be at the ready in 1 to 2 seconds. Disadvantage, school zones, overzealous/undereducated LEOs.

#3 choice = LUCC. Allows the individual to carry a weapon, even conceal a weapon with slightly slower access to both the weapon and the ammuntion, and in a "mall shooter" type of situation would allow for the individual to have the weapon ready in maybe 10 seconds with practice.

#4 choice = Call 911 and wait for the Crime Scene Investigators and the Coroner to show up. Have an insurance policy that pays out big bucks to your family.
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Old 08-11-2009, 9:43 AM
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Despite the obvious disadvantages, LUCC seems like a good alternative to the norm-- not carrying at all.

It seems that an enterprising Calgunner could easily design something that would work somewhat effectively in many situations.

I'm envisioning a lockable IWB holster for a Glock 27. And perhaps even a nice little lockable pocket holster for a Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT. This would have to be made out of a lightweight, thin, yet somewhat strong material.

I can envision using the IWB version...
1. Draw loaded mag from pocket with weak hand.
2. Use weak hand to lift shirt.
3. Use strong hand to manipulate the simple integrated lock on holster.
4. Draw with strong hand.
5. Insert magazine. Charge. Ready for action.

Not the quickest operation, but I can see this working in situations where you can see the threat coming with a few seconds to spare (some muggings, scary people approaching from across a parking lot, someone approaching your car while you're in it).
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Old 08-11-2009, 9:48 AM
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I completely understand that my idea is totally ludicrous and it's almost pathetic that we are having to come up with ways like this to have protection on us. But it all boils down to definitions. If you are carrying around the frame in a pocket, or a purse, can you be charged with carrying a concealed weapon? There are numerous discussions on the net about loaded vs unloaded and how close can the magazine be. Same thing. Does carrying a frame even though it's useless without the slide and barrel attached constitute carrying a weapon. Having to reassemble a weapon helps in the fact that maybe you can actually carry this around. Right now, we don't (well the vast majority of us in this state) have the option to concealed carry. I was just posing the idea that maybe it's possible to carry a weapon, just in an unloaded and disassembled state. It might not even be possible as I wouldn't know how to interpret the laws.

My point I believe was pretty similar to carrying a locked unloaded weapon on your side. Carrying a disassembled weapon, if it was easy to assemble wouldn't take much more time in my opinion to reassemble and use under the scenario presented. Neither the locked holster or disassembled would help if you are in a quick draw situation, but that wasn't what was presented. It's all about being prepared, and while you can't prepare for every scenario, I would bet that there are plenty of scenarios where you would give anything to have a gun on you even if you had to assemble it from scratch.

Again, concealed carry would solve all of this, and we wouldn't be having crazy schemes pop up, but right now this is reality.
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Old 08-11-2009, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig View Post

My point I believe was pretty similar to carrying a locked unloaded weapon on your side. Carrying a disassembled weapon, if it was easy to assemble wouldn't take much more time in my opinion to reassemble and use under the scenario presented.

I think in many cases carrying disassembled would be MUCH faster than carrying LUCC.

Think this carry possibility through for a second...

Right Pocket -- subcompact Glock frame
Left Pocket -- subcompact Glock slide, loaded magazine

Glock owners out there know how easy it is to pop the slide back onto the frame. Then just load her up.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig View Post
I completely understand that my idea is totally ludicrous and it's almost pathetic that we are having to come up with ways like this to have protection on us. But it all boils down to definitions. If you are carrying around the frame in a pocket, or a purse, can you be charged with carrying a concealed weapon? There are numerous discussions on the net about loaded vs unloaded and how close can the magazine be. Same thing. Does carrying a frame even though it's useless without the slide and barrel attached constitute carrying a weapon. Having to reassemble a weapon helps in the fact that maybe you can actually carry this around. Right now, we don't (well the vast majority of us in this state) have the option to concealed carry. I was just posing the idea that maybe it's possible to carry a weapon, just in an unloaded and disassembled state. It might not even be possible as I wouldn't know how to interpret the laws.

My point I believe was pretty similar to carrying a locked unloaded weapon on your side. Carrying a disassembled weapon, if it was easy to assemble wouldn't take much more time in my opinion to reassemble and use under the scenario presented. Neither the locked holster or disassembled would help if you are in a quick draw situation, but that wasn't what was presented. It's all about being prepared, and while you can't prepare for every scenario, I would bet that there are plenty of scenarios where you would give anything to have a gun on you even if you had to assemble it from scratch.

Again, concealed carry would solve all of this, and we wouldn't be having crazy schemes pop up, but right now this is reality.
If you are carrying only a frame, yes it is considered carrying a firearm. If you get caught carrying it openly in a school zone, you will get charged with a 626.9 violation. If you get caught concealing it, you will be charged with a 12025 violation.

There are currently as listed in my post above, only 4 legal viable options for carry in California.
1. CCW
2. LOC (where legal)
3. UOC (outside school zones and other prohibited places)
4. LUCC (outside of firearm prohibited areas)

Disassembly of the firearm, even partially, does not change the legal status of any of the carry methods, and imparts no benefit either legal, or tactical.

The benefit to LUCC is that you can legally pass through a school zone and you can legally conceal the firearm. The disadvantages is the time it takes to access the firearm and load it.

The locking holster carried on the belt, is only an advantage over concealing a locked container, if you are able to unlock the holster and have a legal UOC situation. This is because with the holster exposed, everyone already knows you have a firearm. So, no difference from UOC except the time to unlock and the load the firearm. I see this as a benefit for those who would be UOCing annyway and want to lock up when passing through School Zones.

For LUCC to be an acceptable carry alternative in general, I think it needs to be concealed. If you run into a mugger, you wouldn't have time to unlock, load, and use the gun. So why let them know you even have a gun? In a "lone gunman/psycho killer" situation, you would have time to seek cover, and then take the time necessary to unlock, load, and use your firearm.
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
If you are carrying only a frame, yes it is considered carrying a firearm. If you get caught carrying it openly in a school zone, you will get charged with a 626.9 violation. If you get caught concealing it, you will be charged with a 12025 violation.
That pretty much answers it for me. Good info to know, and the reason I posted the hairbrained idea to begin with. Thanks for clearing it up. I would have lost money betting that carrying around a frame would get you in trouble.

Back to LUCC, how about having the holster integrated with the gun/magazine. You insert the magazine into the gun, and it unlocks the gun from the holster. That would save a step.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fig View Post
That pretty much answers it for me. Good info to know, and the reason I posted the hairbrained idea to begin with. Thanks for clearing it up. I would have lost money betting that carrying around a frame would get you in trouble.

Back to LUCC, how about having the holster integrated with the gun/magazine. You insert the magazine into the gun, and it unlocks the gun from the holster. That would save a step.
If there is an opening for the magazine to be inserted through, then the gun would not be considered to be in "a secure container which is fully enclosed."

12026.1 (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device
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Old 08-11-2009, 4:11 PM
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A fanny pack or fully enclosed holster (IWB probably for concealment), with a locking device, along with a loaded magazine on the other side (or pocket) can get one up and running. Nice idea. The to and from issue bothers me a bit. How does one justify going to the theater. You are not transporting the gun from pont A to point B wtih a minor sidestep. The theater would be a major sidestep in most peoples opinion. I like the out of the box thinking on this.
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Old 08-11-2009, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 1923mack View Post
A fanny pack or fully enclosed holster (IWB probably for concealment), with a locking device, along with a loaded magazine on the other side (or pocket) can get one up and running. Nice idea. The to and from issue bothers me a bit. How does one justify going to the theater. You are not transporting the gun from pont A to point B wtih a minor sidestep. The theater would be a major sidestep in most peoples opinion. I like the out of the box thinking on this.
This is the major problem with LUCC.

I see it primarily as a way to have a gun close at hand while driving. If it is inside a motor vehicle, you don't fall under the specific destination rules in 12026.2.

I see it secondly as a means to cross the no-man's-land of the dreaded "School Zone" if you are out walking while UOCing. I personally see something that locks completely around an openly worn holster fully encasing the gun. Then when you are outside of the school zone, you could remove it, and continue on your way legally UOCing. This would preclude having to actually handle the gun, you would just be removing the case from around the gun.
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Old 08-11-2009, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
I see it secondly as a means to cross the no-man's-land of the dreaded "School Zone" if you are out walking while UOCing. I personally see something that locks completely around an openly worn holster fully encasing the gun. Then when you are outside of the school zone, you could remove it, and continue on your way legally UOCing. This would preclude having to actually handle the gun, you would just be removing the case from around the gun.
Would a transparent locked container allow for both UOC and LUCC simply by puting your jacket either on or off.

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Old 08-12-2009, 7:31 AM
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No, you would have created a completely new category of carrying, Locked Unloaded Open Carry (LUOC).


Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmaster View Post
Would a transparent locked container allow for both UOC and LUCC simply by puting your jacket either on or off.

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Old 08-12-2009, 9:56 AM
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Haha. Where's the string with the little hammer to break the glass.
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Old 08-12-2009, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
12026.2 happily gives a long list of places, and then says That (c) clause has been interpreted to mean 'the legislature does not claim to have listed all possible legal instances of carry'.

If you look at the list, you should notice that generally transport is legal between places where it is legal to have or use a handgun. If that's the case for your transport, odds are reasonable that such use might fall under (c).

You are, however, subject to the whim of a court on whether what you do is actually covered by that clause.

I think that is indeed the problem with just driving around with a locked, unloaded handgun in the car all the time.

As I recall, however, there is no such restrictions on rifles (provided they are not registered cali a.w.'s) meaning if you're going to have a "trunk gun," then why not have the additional power of a rifle?

[addendum]

I guess I didn't realize that 12026.1 and 12026.2 are seperate lists. 12026.1 seems the more comprehensive/defensible of the two.

Last edited by JeffW; 08-12-2009 at 4:15 PM..
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Old 08-12-2009, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
I think that is indeed the problem with just driving around with a locked, unloaded handgun in the car all the time.

As I recall, however, there is no such restrictions on rifles (provided they are not registered cali a.w.'s) meaning if you're going to have a "trunk gun," then why not have the additional power of a rifle?

[addendum]

I guess I didn't realize that 12026.1 and 12026.2 are seperate lists. 12026.1 seems the more comprehensive/defensible of the two.
12026.1 is the exemption for in a motor vehicle.

If it is unloaded in a locked container in a motor vehicle, it is exempt from 12025. Period. You only need to qualify for one exemption to be exempt from 12025.

12026.2 is for transporting a firearm in any manner that is not a motor vehicle. Thus is you are walking around without a destination that is listed in 12026.2 with an unloaded handgun in a locked container, then you are NOT exempt from 12025.
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Old 08-13-2009, 4:23 PM
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Just an idea...I know there are clothes (jackets, shirts, pants, etc.) that are designed specifically for CCW. Why not take it one step further and instead of the LUCC weapon locked into a holster, you could instead have it locked well-concealed pocket.
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Old 08-13-2009, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
12026.1 is the exemption for in a motor vehicle.

If it is unloaded in a locked container in a motor vehicle, it is exempt from 12025. Period. You only need to qualify for one exemption to be exempt from 12025.

12026.2 is for transporting a firearm in any manner that is not a motor vehicle. Thus is you are walking around without a destination that is listed in 12026.2 with an unloaded handgun in a locked container, then you are NOT exempt from 12025.
Why cant a theater be the destination. While carrying a gun for self defense your destination could be any non-sterile location where it would be used for self defense. If a LEO could legally use his gun in a theater to protect himself from a madman with gun pointed at him. Then I would be justified in transporting my LUCC gun for my self defense. The point I'm trying to make is anywhere a LEO would take his gun off duty would arguably become a location that would become a necessity in pursuit of self protection and be authorized to be there unless posted otherwise. Thin? Possibly but a law is a law. Someone might give it a try someday.

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

here is the whole thing if someone cares to read

12026.2(a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a
motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment
event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that
production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly
from, that production or event.
(2) The possession of a firearm in a locked container by a member
of any club or organization, organized for the purpose of lawfully
collecting and lawfully displaying pistols, revolvers, or other
firearms, while the member is at meetings of the clubs or
organizations or while going directly to, and coming directly from,
those meetings.
(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter
safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.

(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.

(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or
the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.
(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully
received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of
business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that
person.
(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or
similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of
displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.
(8) The transportation of a firearm by an authorized employee or
agent of a supplier of firearms when going directly to, or coming
directly from, a motion picture, television, or video production or
entertainment event for the purpose of providing that firearm to an
authorized participant to lawfully use as a part of that production
or event.
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.
(10) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a place designated by a person
authorized to issue licenses pursuant to Section 12050 when done at
the request of the issuing agency so that the issuing agency can
determine whether or not a license should be issued to that person to
carry that firearm.
(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for
the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal
protection while at the lawful campsite. This paragraph shall not be
construed to override the statutory authority granted to the
Department of Parks and Recreation or any other state or local
governmental agencies to promulgate rules and regulations governing
the administration of parks and campgrounds.
(12) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with subdivision (c) or (i) of Section 12078 as it pertains to
that firearm.
(13) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize subdivision (l) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that
firearm.
(14) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show or event, as defined
in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations,
for the purpose of lawfully transferring, selling, or loaning that
firearm in accordance with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(15) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize paragraph (6) of subdivision (a) of Section 12078 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(16) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with Section
2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to
that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law
enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law
enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the
law enforcement agency.
(17) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(18) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for
disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the
law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to
the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
(19) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(20) The transportation of a firearm by a person for the purpose
of obtaining an identification number or mark assigned for that
firearm from the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.
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Old 08-13-2009, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmaster View Post
Why cant a theater be the destination. While carrying a gun for self defense your destination could be any non-sterile location where it would be used for self defense. If a LEO could legally use his gun in a theater to protect himself from a madman with gun pointed at him. Then I would be justified in transporting my LUCC gun for my self defense. The point I'm trying to make is anywhere a LEO would take his gun off duty would arguably become a location that would become a necessity in pursuit of self protection and be authorized to be there unless posted otherwise. Thin? Possibly but a law is a law. Someone might give it a try someday.

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

here is the whole thing if someone cares to read

12026.2(a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly from, that production or event.
(2) The possession of a firearm in a locked container by a member of any club or organization, organized for the purpose of lawfully collecting and lawfully displaying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms, while the member is at meetings of the clubs or organizations or while going directly to, and coming directly from, those meetings.
(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section 12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.
(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.
(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section 12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that person.
(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.
(8) The transportation of a firearm by an authorized employee or agent of a supplier of firearms when going directly to, or coming directly from, a motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment event for the purpose of providing that firearm to an authorized participant to lawfully use as a part of that production or event.
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.
(10) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a place designated by a person authorized to issue licenses pursuant to Section 12050 when done at the request of the issuing agency so that the issuing agency can determine whether or not a license should be issued to that person to carry that firearm.
(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal protection while at the lawful campsite. This paragraph shall not be construed to override the statutory authority granted to the Department of Parks and Recreation or any other state or local governmental agencies to promulgate rules and regulations governing the administration of parks and campgrounds.
(12) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with subdivision (c) or (i) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(13) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to utilize subdivision (l) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(14) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show or event, as defined in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, for the purpose of lawfully transferring, selling, or loaning that firearm in accordance with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(15) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to utilize paragraph (6) of subdivision (a) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(16) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with Section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency.
(17) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it pertains to that firearm.
(18) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
(19) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it pertains to that firearm.
(20) The transportation of a firearm by a person for the purpose of obtaining an identification number or mark assigned for that firearm from the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.
Because section (b) is directly referencing section (a). The reference in (b) of "a place" is to any of the specific places listed in section (a). It even goes on to mention "authorized locations" again in reference to the specific list in section (a).

It is a good idea to read the Penal Code as dispassionately as possible. When you are specifically looking for a loophole, you are most likely going to read into some section the exact loophole you are looking for. Even if it is not there.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2009, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
Because section (b) is directly referencing section (a). The reference in (b) of "a place" is to any of the specific places listed in section (a). It even goes on to mention "authorized locations" again in reference to the specific list in section (a).

It is a good idea to read the Penal Code as dispassionately as possible. When you are specifically looking for a loophole, you are most likely going to read into some section the exact loophole you are looking for. Even if it is not there.
Ok (Head down, Sigh ) *&(^$%#@ California Firearm Code.
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Old 08-13-2009, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinger View Post
I think in many cases carrying disassembled would be MUCH faster than carrying LUCC.

Think this carry possibility through for a second...

Right Pocket -- subcompact Glock frame
Left Pocket -- subcompact Glock slide, loaded magazine

Glock owners out there know how easy it is to pop the slide back onto the frame. Then just load her up.
besides the fact that carrying a frame of a gun is no different than carrying a gun in the eyes of the law, the subcompact Glock disassembled has one problem: the recoil spring assembly's base plate (toward the inside of the gun) can break under prolonged tension.
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I'll say it for the 50th time. I AM NOT A SINGLE ISSUE VOTER.
I'm a freakin socialist for christs sake. I'm not going to vote for some republican just so he can funnel even more money to the oligarchs that run this country, just because he's pro 2a.
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