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  #1  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:37 AM
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Default What on earth was I given?

My aunts boyfriend gave this to me tonight saying that it had been in his closet for the past 20 or so years and he wanted someone who would use it to have it. He had no idea what it was or what it shot and my google fu has been weak tonight so any information would be useful.

Condition: Almost everywhere has light rust spots, lots of scuffs on the stock and is very dirty but the riffling is sharp. The rear site says "Williams" on it.











Thanks,
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:42 AM
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Looks like an Arisaka Type 38 in a fancy stock. Although, I know next to nothing about Japanese rifles.
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Old 08-02-2009, 1:03 AM
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Sporterized Arisaka (WWII Japanese rifle). Prolly a WWII bringback that someone decided to morph into a deer rifle. It was used to be a pretty common thing to do with bringbacks.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2009, 1:08 AM
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I have an Arisaka that was spoterized and rebarreled in 6.5 Sweede The Arisaka is an extremely strong action. Make sure of the caliber before you try and shoot it.
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2009, 6:16 AM
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There's a nice article about the Type 38 in the current issue of Surplus Firearms.
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2009, 6:21 AM
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good thing the chysanthemum is intact too
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2009, 6:34 AM
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If I were you I would have a gunsmith check to see what caliber it is in.

Many Type 38's were converted into 257 Roberts without marking the barrel of the change.
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Old 08-02-2009, 7:30 AM
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Default Nice score.

Definitely a sporterized Arisaka. Looks like a stock from a 725 Reminton with a williams peep sight added on. You'll want to have a smith examine it prior to firing for the reasons already mentioned.
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Old 08-02-2009, 7:46 AM
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Older Gent Gave an ar15.com poster a pristine smithsonian condition "Bringback" with 1968 amnesty papers Stg 44 (NFA) with very nice furniture & finish , best one I have ever seen . Thread & pics caused a stir yesterday in General section of forum . ($25.000+ weapon)
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Old 08-02-2009, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead View Post
If I were you I would have a gunsmith check to see what caliber it is in.

Many Type 38's were converted into 257 Roberts without marking the barrel of the change.
If it isn't in the original 6.5x50mmSR; it might be:

6.5x55mm Swede
6.5/.257 Roberts wildcat
6.5x57mm Mauser
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:56 PM
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What am I missing ? Perhaps it is a type 99 in 7.7mm - The photos do not show all that clear on my puter- Easy to tell difference, T -38 has rear tangs as separate pieces, T-99 has tangs as part of receiver and lower plate like a mauser or springfield --
my ha-penny --
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Old 08-02-2009, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunboat View Post
What am I missing ? Perhaps it is a type 99 in 7.7mm - The photos do not show all that clear on my puter- Easy to tell difference, T -38 has rear tangs as separate pieces, T-99 has tangs as part of receiver and lower plate like a mauser or springfield --
my ha-penny --
The type 99 also has a hinged floorplate and there are no safetys with a protruding boob nipple on type 99 rifles either. These pictures are even more obvious...

Type 38 safety

Type 38 rifle

Type 99 rifle

Last edited by cousinkix1953; 08-02-2009 at 2:03 PM..
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2009, 2:02 PM
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It the stamping literally reads Three Eight
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2009, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
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What am I missing ? Perhaps it is a type 99
The kanji is clearly "38 type". If nothing else, Type 99 has two of the characters the same :-)
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Old 08-02-2009, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Se View Post
It the stamping literally reads Three Eight
Yes! Most of us don't speak Japanese; so the pictures tell the story. There are a couple of websites with lots of Japanese rifle pictures. Another has detailed list of the markings on their guns and bayonets. The only way his rifle is likely to use anything other than 6.5mm ammo is if he's got a rebarreled sporter. I used to see replacement Arisaka barrels in the gun magazines many years ago...

Last edited by cousinkix1953; 08-02-2009 at 2:10 PM..
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2009, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
Older Gent Gave an ar15.com poster a pristine smithsonian condition "Bringback" with 1968 amnesty papers Stg 44 (NFA) with very nice furniture & finish , best one I have ever seen . Thread & pics caused a stir yesterday in General section of forum . ($25.000+ weapon)
link?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????/
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2009, 2:54 PM
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I picked up a sporterized t99 yesterday, that's definitely a 38.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2009, 3:13 PM
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yeah the kanji translates exactly to "38 Type"

funny how kanji and chinese share some characters.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2009, 5:45 PM
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2 gas vent holes are a dead giveaway for a 38, not to mention other cues. my 38 carbine doesn't have the "boob nipple" but the rest of it is deadnuts type 38. i have a 99 as well and love both of them. if you get a decent one they're very accurate, pleasant shooting rifles. even 7.7 doesn't beat you up too bad, although i haven't really messed with handloads yet.
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2009, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcaoloveshine View Post
yeah the kanji translates exactly to "38 Type"

funny how kanji and chinese share some characters.
not "funny".... its by design. the Japanese adopted a subset of Chinese pictogram characters for their own use, probably about the 5th-6th century AD. they complement these with syllabic characters (kana).

but yeah. it says type 38. no mystery there.
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  #21  
Old 08-02-2009, 6:11 PM
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Gas ports: 2 gas ports is a T38 type action (T38&44) while single port makes a T99

Earlier guns also employ the use of 2 gas ports, however they can be distinguished other ways. Type 30 uses a hooked safety, and the very much rarer Type 35 uses a knobbed hook safety and has protector wings on the rear sight much like a No.1 MK3

Basic ways to tell, or you can read the moonspeak
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  #22  
Old 08-02-2009, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
2 gas vent holes are a dead giveaway for a 38, not to mention other cues. my 38 carbine doesn't have the "boob nipple" but the rest of it is deadnuts type 38. i have a 99 as well and love both of them. if you get a decent one they're very accurate, pleasant shooting rifles. even 7.7 doesn't beat you up too bad, although i haven't really messed with handloads yet.
I've seen several types of safetys on the type 38, but never a boob nipple on a type 99 rifle.

Last edited by cousinkix1953; 08-03-2009 at 1:55 AM..
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  #23  
Old 08-02-2009, 8:12 PM
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The "boob nipple" or Long Tang on the the T38 safety is only found on early T38s. Probably produced around WWI era till the early 20s.
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Old 08-02-2009, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
Older Gent Gave an ar15.com poster a pristine smithsonian condition "Bringback" with 1968 amnesty papers Stg 44 (NFA) with very nice furniture & finish , best one I have ever seen . Thread & pics caused a stir yesterday in General section of forum . ($25.000+ weapon)
in that kind f condition it could be worth even more.... All the Stg/MP44's I have seen and shot were well used... they were functional but had a lot of wear...
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Old 08-02-2009, 9:56 PM
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great gun fun to shoot have fun
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  #26  
Old 08-02-2009, 10:01 PM
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in that kind f condition it could be worth even more.... All the Stg/MP44's I have seen and shot were well used... they were functional but had a lot of wear...
The Friggen thing looke almost as good as one of the new Knockoffs (But it had gravitas & history vibes oozing & dripping off of it like the stuff under the street in the Gostbuster movies) , THE fURNITURE WAS Awsome looking , Dig the Thread up (Had things like "I just creamed my trausers" and "Best one I have ever seen" ...
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Old 08-03-2009, 1:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sampachi View Post
The "boob nipple" or Long Tang on the the T38 safety is only found on early T38s. Probably produced around WWI era till the early 20s.
There big nipples and then smaller nipples adopted in the 20s or 30s. Type 38 safetys began to look just like the common type 99 versions by the middle of WW2; but even then, you can still notice a slight difference.

I have some type 99 safetys in my parts box. It illustrates just how the Japanese cut corners in workmanship and details as the war raged on...

1- early clean crossed checkering
2- rough crossed checkering
3- serrated diagonal lines in one direction
4- smooth and polished
5- crude last ditch welded version
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:41 AM
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Thank you all for ALL of the info and the warnings. I will be dropping her off at Imbert and Smithers to find the caliber and then give her a thorough cleaning before taking her to the range.

--Matt
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Old 08-03-2009, 7:45 PM
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So I went to Imbert and Smithers and they looked down the barrel and said that it's 6.5 Jap and they didn't have any ammo for it. They also said that the gun was inherently unsafe to shoot because it has been sporterized i.e. they didn't know what else had been done to it.

I'm kinda unsatisfied after hearing what you all had to say but mostly because I just want to shoot it.

--Matt
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Old 08-03-2009, 7:53 PM
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That's odd that they said it was "inherently unsafe" but didn't offer an explanation. Did they mention if the parts were mismatched?
I have some 6.5 both handloads and factory loads if you are interested. We could meet at Los Altos Rifle range if you are interested.

I have to say, it's one of the nicer Sporterized rifles that I have seen on here for awhile.
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Old 08-03-2009, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
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That's odd that they said it was "inherently unsafe" but didn't offer an explanation.
They said that since it had been sporterized that they didn't know what else had been done to it. I was hoping to have them do something (I'm a gunsmithing newb so I have no idea what this would be) to tell me what it was chambered in as some on here said it could have been rechambered or rebarreled and also something to tell me if it was safe or not.

Though they did say the Chrysanthemum and the clean cross checkered safety made it something that collectors looked for...if they hadn't changed the stock out.

Thank you for the offer that I may take you up on sometime if I can ever get some time off work.

--Matt
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by trilogy View Post
They said that since it had been sporterized that they didn't know what else had been done to it. I was hoping to have them do something (I'm a gunsmithing newb so I have no idea what this would be) to tell me what it was chambered in as some on here said it could have been rechambered or rebarreled and also something to tell me if it was safe or not.

Though they did say the Chrysanthemum and the clean cross checkered safety made it something that collectors looked for...if they hadn't changed the stock out.

Thank you for the offer that I may take you up on sometime if I can ever get some time off work.

--Matt
Sporterizing an Arisaka doesn't make it dangerous by itself! Find somebody to do a chamber cast and make a dummy cartridge. You can compare that to the few other live rounds that will function in a type 38 rifle.

The other method is to see if 6.5 Japanese ammo will chamber in the rifle. If so, you can mount the rifle to an old tire and test fire it with about 20 feet of string just like the rednecks do on YouTube...
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:12 AM
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Jeeeze. The lawyers have spoken to their gunsmith. The Arisaka action is one of the stoutest around. I doubt very much he was even a gunsmith at all. I have heard horror stories about a pseudo gunsmith there. I would look at it myself if you like. I am no gunsmith but I can tell when something is unsafe. I have 3 Arisakas we could look at that are safe and compare the actions and lockup.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2009, 6:37 AM
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A chamber cast should be fairly straightforward. It must be a fear of getting sued thing because this would be a fairly easy way to make a few bucks (heat up alloy, pour, pop it out).

This is the product (or one of them) that a gunsmith could use:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=3..._CASTING_ALLOY
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Old 08-04-2009, 7:08 AM
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very nice. i need to get my grandfathers arisaka up and running.
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