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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-26-2009, 12:43 PM
limustudotcom limustudotcom is offline
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Default Question about Concealed Weapons Permits in CA

I am a Realtor, and I have been in some pretty rough areas with clients trying to scoop up some good deals (I'm from Southern California, LA area). I feel like we are in danger in some of these abandoned/vacant homes sometimes though.

I have seen evidence of squatters in some properties, and clear signs of gang-related vandalism in others. Sometimes I preview properties for my clients on my own, and I usually just walk in with a big black flashlight that could do some damage if it came down to it.

But after that Realtor was found executed in a vacant home the other day, I don't think it is too smart of me to go around my daily routine with just a flash light anymore.

No one in my family has such a permit, but I do have some friends in law enforcement I was going to ask about this as well.

Anyway, if anyone could provide me with any information I would surely appreciate it. I didn't think I'd ever find myself in this sort of situation, but I don't want to be the first thing a crazy crackhead sees as I'm opening a door with just a flash light...or some angry gangsters trying to be tough guys...you get the picture.

Cheers,
Stuart
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2009, 12:56 PM
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I too am a Realtor and many in our office CCW, including me.

It will be up to your county sheriff/city police chief to issue you the permit. In my area, they are relatively easy to get, in your area, you may not be able to get a permit.

My best advice is to check in over at CalCCW.com and ask for help.
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2009, 12:58 PM
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I see that you live in Covina. The Chief of Police has the ability to issue CCWs to residents. Whether he has the willingness is another matter. Some chiefs choose to simply wash their hands of the matter and delegate CCW to the sheriff.

If he disapproves your application, you may apply with the LA county sheriff.

I don't discourage anyone from applying, but the truth is that in LA country, at least if you must deal with the sheriff, your chances are pretty slim. I have no idea where the Covina COP stands.
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2009, 1:04 PM
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if you dont know already, a California CCW permit is almost impossible to obtain for a normal citizen. im not sure how much research you have done, but you will need what is called a "good cause" as your local county sheriff for police chief sees as "good enough" to issue you a permit.

that being said, just self defense is not a "good cause." a "good cause" might be a jewelry store owner that regularly transports large amounts of valuables or cash. sounds like you might have a better chance than most people judging by your reason. usually, a large contribution to that sheriff or police chiefs re-election fund might help out but i wouldn't count on it. becoming a celebrity or politician can greatly increase your chances also. (more sarcasm).

to give you an idea, in an urban area of California, there might be only around 100 permits issued for the entire county!

im no expert in getting a California CCW. i recommend you do as much research as possible and join he fight all of us here are currently in. good luck!

a couple websites that might help.

http://californiaccw.org/

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/

http://calccw.com/

lots of good stuff here on calguns too

Last edited by bboyin4food; 07-26-2009 at 1:06 PM..
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2009, 1:05 PM
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If you live in LA county, you're not likely to be granted a CCW. That said, LUCC may be an option to consider. Also, carry is legal on private property where you have permission of the owner.

Check out:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=153
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=163061
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=103660
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=169348&page=2
http://www.calccw.com/
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Last edited by wildhawker; 07-26-2009 at 1:09 PM..
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2009, 3:04 PM
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+1 for www.calccw.com
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2009, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyin4food View Post
if you dont know already, a California CCW permit is almost impossible to obtain for a normal citizen. im not sure how much research you have done, but you will need what is called a "good cause" as your local county sheriff for police chief sees as "good enough" to issue you a permit.

that being said, just self defense is not a "good cause." a "good cause" might be a jewelry store owner that regularly transports large amounts of valuables or cash. sounds like you might have a better chance than most people judging by your reason. usually, a large contribution to that sheriff or police chiefs re-election fund might help out but i wouldn't count on it. becoming a celebrity or politician can greatly increase your chances also. (more sarcasm).

to give you an idea, in an urban area of California, there might be only around 100 permits issued for the entire county!

im no expert in getting a California CCW. i recommend you do as much research as possible and join he fight all of us here are currently in. good luck!

a couple websites that might help.

http://californiaccw.org/

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/

http://calccw.com/

lots of good stuff here on calguns too
In urban areas of California, this is often true. "Self Defense" or "Self Protection" is not generally accepted as Good Cause. In more rural areas of the state, it is, or the threshold for establishing Good Cause is easy to reach with easily articulable statements. Look at things this way: San Diego may have only a few hundred CCW licenses issued. Kern County (not too far north) has about 4 THOUSAND.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2009, 6:52 PM
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LA County had 1,237 vald CCWs in 2007
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2009, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DParker View Post
My best advice is to check in over at CalCCW.com and ask for help.
CalCCW seems to be a dead/dying site. Overall, I think more people here have a better grasp of CCW law and GC then on CalCCW.
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2009, 7:04 PM
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calccw is garbage, stay away from that site.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2009, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
CalCCW seems to be a dead/dying site. Overall, I think more people here have a better grasp of CCW law and GC then on CalCCW.
+1 I submitted this thread in the Suggestions area.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=205322
I still think there is a backroom conspericy between calguns and other forums "NOT" to have a CCW area on Calguns.

For now the best we can do is search various threads here for CCW information scattered throughout Calguns.
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Old 07-26-2009, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmaster View Post
+1 I submitted this thread in the Suggestions area.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=205322
I still think there is a backroom conspericy between calguns and other forums "NOT" to have a CCW area on Calguns.

For now the best we can do is search various threads here for CCW information scattered throughout Calguns.
I agree on the backroom deal part. I added to your thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...12&postcount=9

.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2009, 8:13 PM
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One thing I've seen mentioned previously is the locked unloaded carry as a legal means of carrying in your car, etc. My question is what happens if you find yourself in a situation justifying deadly force? You unlock the handgun, slap in the mag, defend yourself, and if successful in detering a bad guy through a wounding or fatal shot, how will you be handled by LE? LE drives up and you point to the now open, unlocked case and you say you were transporting a handgun legally when you encountered a life threatening situation, but it's just your word that you had the gun in the case in the first place ... ???

Putting it back doesn't help. You obviously shot someone in that hypothetical so had to have it out of the case at some point.

How does this work in reality? Seems to me you're screwed no matter what because you can't prove you ever had the gun in the case in the first place. Some prosecutor or lawyer will just say you had the case in the car as a prop.
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Old 07-26-2009, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
One thing I've seen mentioned previously is the locked unloaded carry as a legal means of carrying in your car, etc. My question is what happens if you find yourself in a situation justifying deadly force? You unlock the handgun, slap in the mag, defend yourself, and if successful in detering a bad guy through a wounding or fatal shot, how will you be handled by LE? LE drives up and you point to the now open, unlocked case and you say you were transporting a handgun legally when you encountered a life threatening situation, but it's just your word that you had the gun in the case in the first place ... ???

Putting it back doesn't help. You obviously shot someone in that hypothetical so had to have it out of the case at some point.

How does this work in reality? Seems to me you're screwed no matter what because you can't prove you ever had the gun in the case in the first place. Some prosecutor or lawyer will just say you had the case in the car as a prop.
Actually, a similar scenario is discussed in How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail. There is a code section that covers it, but I don't have my book with me.

I guess the answer is you'll be alive and the bad guy will be dead. But yes, it will be an uphill legal battle for you.
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Old 07-26-2009, 9:15 PM
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I'm an appraiser so I deal with some of the same issues. Fortunately I live in a county where the CLEO respects a person's right to self defense.

However, a gun isnt the only tool that counts. Get some OC, get a big knife and some training to go with it.

There's also lots of good avoidance techniques when working a sketchy property or neighborhood.
Go early in the day.
Knock loudly and wait longer than you need to before entering a "empty" property.
Take a friend.
Leave word where you went and when you'll check back in. (I have a friend I file a "Flight Plan" with when I feel I need to)
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2009, 9:23 PM
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Calccw site has been very helpful to me and my application for a ccw. I disagree with the posters that say it is a dead or dying site!
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Old 07-26-2009, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBrent View Post
Calccw site has been very helpful to me and my application for a ccw. I disagree with the posters that say it is a dead or dying site!
I certainly wouldn't call CalCCW a dead or dying site...it's certainly filled with lots of useful information and some excellent experts.

However, its also a site with what I'd call 'a strict foundation of doing everything possible to avoid pushing the envelope in any fashion.' For example; they would decry you a badguy for CCW at Disneyland even if appropriately licensed. Similarly, they would completely freak out if you broach the concept of Loaded Open Carry while licensed for CCW.

In essence CalCCW is generally slanted towards 'better safe then sorry' vs X is legal, Y is not.

I state the above not to disparage CalCCW, infact I would recommend taking a look and evaluating if it can be useful to you, I'm simply passing along my take on the site.
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2009, 8:50 AM
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Covina has its own Police Department. First step is to find out if Covina PD issues CCW's or defers to LA County Sheriffs. Once that is determined then check the various CCW sites to see what "good cause" has worked for that agency. You will obviously have better luck showing good cause to the local Covina PD then LA County, so hope for that.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2009, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
Actually, a similar scenario is discussed in How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail. There is a code section that covers it, but I don't have my book with me.

I guess the answer is you'll be alive and the bad guy will be dead. But yes, it will be an uphill legal battle for you.
Wait, in one post you disparage CalCCW.com and seem to want to come off sounding knowledgable about CCW's in California, and a few posts later we find the breadth of your knowledge is Machtinger's book (nothing bad about Machtinger's book, BTW), couple that with the fact that you can't even remember the exceptions to CCW permit code?

So, it's just your own opinion that CalCCA is dead/dying and that the CCW info on CGN is better, right?!? It has to be, unless you are not telling us something, like you are an SME on self defense, CCW, etc.
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2009, 9:19 AM
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Hmm...

I don't think CalCCW is dead or dying in any way.

Why the slam? Curious.

If we want to have a CCW section on Calguns, let's place the request and hope the mods will create and manage it.

I find it odd that some seem so particularly agressive about another website that doesn't conflict with a forum that currently exists at Calguns...
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  #21  
Old 07-27-2009, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bboyin4food View Post
if you dont know already, a California CCW permit is almost impossible to obtain for a normal citizen.
Not at all true. You just need to do your homework and be willing to move to a real county.
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Old 07-27-2009, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
carry is legal on private property where you have permission of the owner.
I don't think that is true. There is no exception other than for the owner of private property. PC 12026

However, if you think really hard about it, a property for sale is the "place of business" of a realtor, and carry is legal by owners and employees of "lawful businesses". One might also consider a property "lawfully possessed" by the realtor while there.



12031(h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in
any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
property.
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRSFEFA View Post
Not at all true. You just need to do your homework and be willing to move to a real county.

Is that the answer that you like when people from other States say that about Ca gun issues/laws?
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
Is that the answer that you like when people from other States say that about Ca gun issues/laws?
Of course not. It is however a practical reality here. And yes it's a pathetic state of affairs. But it also shows a deeper commitment. Leaving the big counties without legal voters sounds like a great idea to me.

I was willing to make the move -I voted with my feet and a Uhaul. Is your commitment that deep or do you just concentrate on the way things should be?

ETA - I see you're a neighbor. Good for you!
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock30 View Post
calccw is garbage, stay away from that site.

Amen. It is a dying site because the posters are rude.
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  #26  
Old 07-27-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
LA County had 1,237 vald CCWs in 2007
Unless LASD has lied to TBJ, they have only issued some 430 permits. I think the rest of these you mention include LAPD and the other PD's.

On the OP, I don't know about Covina, but I suspect it's very low issue (be pleased if someone can confirm or deny that.)

As far as LASD is concerned, I'm afraid realtors, as a class, won't stand a chance. If you apply, I would put a lot of money on you being told that pepper spray or a Taser is all you need. That's what everyone who has contacted us after being denied has told us they say.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:23 AM
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Covina was notorious for requiring applicants to spend an outrageous (illegal) amount of money to apply. I doubt you'll find anybody having applied to that city.

I would suggest you move about 10 miles east to San Bernardino County.
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  #28  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJ View Post
Amen. It is a dying site because the posters are rude.
CALCCW folks seem extremely polite to me. I respect your opinion, and I'm sure you've got your reasons for posting this, but that site was HUGE in me attaining my CCW goals and I still frequent the site for the support, ongoing info and all-around camaraderie. There's a smaller community there for sure, but that's the nature of the site...I don't see how it could be considered "dead."
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
CalCCW seems to be a dead/dying site. Overall, I think more people here have a better grasp of CCW law and GC then on CalCCW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock30 View Post
calccw is garbage, stay away from that site.
I'm trying to figure out your motives for posting these replies here. CalCCW has many good people and subject matter experts to assist in the process. They were instrumental in helping me to get approved. To say that there are more people on this forum with a better grasp of CCW laws is a specious statement. The SOLE purpose of CalCCW is to assist and mentor those who wish to CCW in this state...nothing else.

So what could possibly be your motives for posting up these replies?

Did you get turned down and now that is CalCCW's fault? There is nothing at CalCCW that would cause you to get turned down. And I seriously doubt that anyone there gave you incorrect advice that would have caused you to be disapproved.

Are you just trying to keep the OP tuned into this forum? There are plenty of reasons to come here to post among like minded individuals. There is no reason to steer the OP away from a valuable resource like CalCCW. I post on both and appreciate the focus on CCW there and the variety of subjects covered here.

limustudotcom, there is a lot of valuable information on both sites to assist you in the process. I recommend you look at ALL the other forums listed in the replies and judge for yourself. And BTW, there are a bunch of news stories out there about RE agents being assaulted and killed in the course of their duties. These may come in handy with your GC statement.

Good luck
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:40 PM
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I'm going to submit my app here in San Diego over the next week or so, I just finished filling it out today and need to get a haircut and press some slacks for the interview. My need is the fact that I run an overnight shipping company that specializes in pharmaceuticals, we often carry tens of thousands of dollars in narcotics in a single day per driver. Hopefully I can show them some of my routing info, and customer lists and they will get the fact that we are driving around with a druggies dream come true in the backs of our personal vehicles, making up to 30 stops per driver per day. Wish me luck!
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:41 PM
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CalCCW.com was founded with a simple but very specific goal in mind: “To increase CCW issuance within California, one CCW at a time within the limitations and confines of existing laws”.

There are many other websites that also strive toward similar goals, but adhere to different philosophies. Some advocate political activism. Some advocate open carry. Some advocate looking for and exploiting “loopholes” within existing laws. Some advocate litigation and aggressive use of the legal system. Some even advocate “stretching” or “breaking” the law to achieve a desired goal.

CalCCW.com does not bash or speak ill of other sites and such behavior is not tolerated on CalCCW.com. However, CalCCW.com does not align itself with the philosophies of these other web sites. We do respect their right to express their own opinions, however.

Among the defining characteristics of CalCCW.com is that we attempt to build bridges rather than tear them down. With each new CCW that is issued, within the confines of existing laws, a new bridge is built.

CalCCW.com does not tolerate illegal activity of any kind. Any advice or posting that advocates any type of activity that even skirts the grey areas of illegality is addressed quickly and firmly.

The founding and senior members of CalCCW.com are a very friendly group who genuinely enjoy helping others toward achieving a CCW. Many are acknowledged subject matter experts regarding CCW in their own counties or jurisdictions. Some are acknowledged subject matter experts regarding CCW within the state of California and their opinions are sought after by decision makers, law enforcement agencies, and regulatory bodies as a result.

As the founding and senior members hold themselves accountable for their words and actions, they also hold all members accountable for their words and actions, because we are all a reflection of CalCCW.com.

Regardless of the reasons that brought us to California, our reasons for choosing to reside here, or our respective feelings regarding California firearms laws, the founding and senior members are citizens of the State of California with a genuine interest in improving the image of California to residents of other states.

CalCCW.com does not “Suger-Coat” issues. “CalCCW.com may not always be able to tell what you want to hear, but they will always tell you what you need to hear”.

Constructive criticism and active participation from all members is always welcome and appreciated.

Thanks,

Poogsdad

Disclaimer: I am a Senior Founding Member of CalCCW.com.
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  #32  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
One thing I've seen mentioned previously is the locked unloaded carry as a legal means of carrying in your car, etc. My question is what happens if you find yourself in a situation justifying deadly force? You unlock the handgun, slap in the mag, defend yourself, and if successful in detering a bad guy through a wounding or fatal shot, how will you be handled by LE? LE drives up and you point to the now open, unlocked case and you say you were transporting a handgun legally when you encountered a life threatening situation, but it's just your word that you had the gun in the case in the first place ... ???

Putting it back doesn't help. You obviously shot someone in that hypothetical so had to have it out of the case at some point.

How does this work in reality? Seems to me you're screwed no matter what because you can't prove you ever had the gun in the case in the first place. Some prosecutor or lawyer will just say you had the case in the car as a prop.
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  #33  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:47 PM
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Good "poogsdad", now that you're here....you think I have a chance?
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  #34  
Old 07-27-2009, 1:06 PM
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Good "poogsdad", now that you're here....you think I have a chance?
Actually, what you need to do is go to CalCCW and read the background info we have provided. Don't post your Good Cause, as that is not in your best interest. There are a number of people there that will be happy to review your GC and help you polish it.

I am also a Senior Founding Member of CalCCW.
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  #35  
Old 07-27-2009, 1:08 PM
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I am a member of both forums and there is a very little ill will between boards but some does exist so just leave as personal opinion not board opinions.

jerry
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  #36  
Old 07-27-2009, 1:15 PM
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I have been round and round with some of the SME on calccw about a few issues, and am still not satisfied and sometimes find them stubborn. HOWEVER, it is a great resource and not at all dying. This one is:

http://californiaccw.org/forums/list.page
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  #37  
Old 07-27-2009, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tango-52 View Post
Actually, what you need to do is go to CalCCW and read the background info we have provided. Don't post your Good Cause, as that is not in your best interest. There are a number of people there that will be happy to review your GC and help you polish it.

I am also a Senior Founding Member of CalCCW.

Signed up!
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  #38  
Old 07-27-2009, 2:38 PM
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I don't think that it's an "either, or" game both boards can exist without issue. I would like to see a CCW forum on here because it would reach a larger audience. A lot of people coming into research and discuss their other gun issues would be exposed to more information on CCWs and maybe pursue it by visiting other forums and applying for their CCWs. Exposure is the key.
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  #39  
Old 07-27-2009, 3:23 PM
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Be advised that CCW is illegal while within the physical confines of Disneyland.
Wether you have a CCW or not. It is posted by the management.
It will get you time in the slammer if caught!
Brake the law and they will through the book at you, they have the connections, money and influence to get a restricted classification of airspace approved by the US government for the airspace above Disneyland.
They have the connections to push it!
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  #40  
Old 07-27-2009, 3:38 PM
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Default CalCCW.

Many of the members of that site are deeply involved with the Orange county situation, so they may not be as active on that site due to other activities.

Sites though are only as "Active as their members".

Nicki
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