|
California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
"Senate rejects law on carrying concealed weapons"
via CNN.com
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Senate narrowly rejected a measure to allow people to carry concealed weapons from state to state Wednesday. A Miami, Florida, gun store offers concealed weapons training. A Miami, Florida, gun store offers concealed weapons training. The vote was 58 to 39. The amendment needed 60 votes to pass. The measure would have required each of the 48 states that allow concealed firearms to honor permits issued in other states. It was the first significant defeat this year for the gun lobby. The concealed weapons proposal was an amendment to a larger defense appropriations bill, introduced by Sen. John Thune, a South Dakota Republican. Supporters of the measure argued it would help deter criminals; opponents claimed it would endanger innocent people by effectively forcing most of the country to conform to regulations in states with the loosest gun ownership standards. Sen. John Barrasso, a Wyoming Republican who is a co-sponsor of the amendment, argued Wednesday that gun licenses should apply across state lines, like driver's licenses. "People travel," he said on CNN's "American Morning." "We have truck drivers on our roads, people traveling for vacation in their vehicles, and if you have a license... you should be able to use that license in other states. It should apply like a driver's license," he said. He argued that concealed weapons deter crime. But Republican Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York City and an opponent of the law, said the proposed amendment would trample on states' rights. Don't Miss * House passes law to allow concealed weapons in national parks "Wyoming shouldn't be subject to New York state laws, and we're going in that direction," he said. "What's right for the people of Wyoming isn't necessarily right for the people of New York and vice versa." Bloomberg insisted that guns do not make people safer. "There's no evidence that if you have a gun, you're safer. Quite the contrary. If you have a gun at home, [you are] something like 20 times more likely to have somebody in your house killed," he said on "American Morning." "We have to protect our policemen, protect our citizens. We can't have all these guns, and it's reasonable to have each state make their own laws," he said. The issue has blurred Capitol Hill's usual partisan lines. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, is one of several Southern and Western Democrats who supported the measure. Others Democrats opposed it. Before this vote, gun control advocates faced a setback when President Obama signed a credit card bill that included a provision allowing people to carry guns in national parks. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
First try and we came close. It will pass later.
Hey and there has been some progress, we've even gotten to Bloomberg: "... If you have a gun at home, [you are] something like 20 times more likely to have somebody in your house killed," he said on "American Morning." That's down from 43 times (or "something like" that)!!!
__________________
False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/ Last edited by Liberty1; 07-23-2009 at 12:32 AM.. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
See, I could be a dips**t politician too. B
__________________
______________________________________ http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/donate DONATE TODAY!! |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I have read this line so many times...does anyone know exactly where this research came from? This figure that's being used is just utter bs. Anyone have the list of senators who voted against? |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
You know I really hate when they pull a statistical number out their arse. I just wish the damn lawmakers would do some serious research but then they would have to admit they aren't doing what they should be.
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
I think he mis-spoke...I believe he meant criminals in your home are 20 times more likely to die if you have a gun in house.
__________________
Love and Peace through superior firepower. Quote:
|
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
"People who are 20 times more likely to die from violence in their homes tend to buy a gun." |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
I'm sure Prof. John Lott has addressed it or for that matter Prof. Eugine Voloch.
__________________
False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/ Last edited by Liberty1; 07-22-2009 at 10:08 AM.. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Here's a link to who voted and how - the nonvoters were Byrd and Kennedy and Mikulski, I'd expect Kennedy & Mikulski to vote have voted no. I assume Byrd & Kennedy were too ill, don't know why Mikulski could not vote.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...00237#position That weasel Lugar (R-IN) voted no, virtually all the no votes were Democrats including someone who calls himself pro 2nd, Senator Leahy. And new Democrat Specter voted no, hope he's soon gone from office. Interesting that Harkin continues to survive in IO. Twenty Democrats (including Reid) voted yes, that's not too bad. Last edited by dfletcher; 07-22-2009 at 9:51 AM.. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The intruder in your house is the one that's killed though. Which means that your probability of surviving a home invasion is 20x higher if you have a gun. |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
So close, yet so far
__________________
"License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit -- ever. They're like the Viet Cong. Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote." --Carl Spackler-- |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Yep. Back in 2006 Senator Allen's (R-VA) CCW reciprocity bill never even made it out of committee, this one nearly passed.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S3275:
__________________
- Brian Oceanside Practical Pistol Club - USPSA and IDPA matches in San Diego County Linea de Fuego - USPSA and 3-Gun matches in San Diego County |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If you have a gun at home, and home is the only place that the particular gun is kept, if someone is killed by that gun, it is highly likely that the person who is killed by that gun would be in your house (unless you are shooting out of your windows). Example: Criminal/Murderer/Rapist who makes the mistake of breaking into a home where a gun is kept is many times more likely to be killed by a gun than the Criminal/Murderer/Rapist who breaks into a home where there is no gun.
__________________
If you haven't seen it with your own eyes, or heard it with your own ears, don't make it up with your small mind, or spread it with your big mouth. |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
The original number was "43 times," and it came from a thoroughly discredited piece of academic fraud by Arthur Kellermann. GunCite has a writeup, and if you read it and follow the links you can get started understanding how he cooked his data. But it's enough to know that all he did was compare *deaths*. That means, among other things, that he does not count defensive uses not ending in death. Given that the vast majority of successful defensive uses do not involve firing a shot, this means that essentially his calculation begins by ignoring defensive uses.
This is "banana republic vote-counting math": if you don't count 95% of the votes for the opposition party, the generalissimo gets re-elected in a landslide. 7x57
__________________
What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed) |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#18
|
||||
|
||||
If I recall correctly, the Kellermann study did not control for whether or not the household gun was used in the crime. In any case, the particular statistic is not correlated correctly.
__________________
Matthew D. Van Norman Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Interesting thoughts on Kennedy.
In the household, we have Massachusetts CCW's - they're called LTC's. Not sure how he would have voted. Shame on the republican traitors...freaking Lugar moron. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
they kept mentioning how other states CCW are just given to you because you are a gun owner. Is this true, certain states just issue them if you own a gun??????
__________________
"I watched a tank get disabled with a can of ravioli, once." - jdberger “We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” ― Winston S. Churchill |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
Kennedy would have voted NO. Has he ever failed to support a gun control measure? Today's no show doesn't count.
Last edited by berto; 07-22-2009 at 10:20 AM.. |
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Effectively it is for Alaska and Vermont - since neither state requires a license for CCW.
__________________
- Brian Oceanside Practical Pistol Club - USPSA and IDPA matches in San Diego County Linea de Fuego - USPSA and 3-Gun matches in San Diego County |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
I love how most of the antis i've met say gun owners should have a license like we license drivers...
and yet, when we try to make those permits apply like driver's licenses, they start complaining again... hmmmm....
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
|
#26
|
||||
|
||||
As a transplanted Yankee I am certain how he would have voted - it would have been no. Remember he has always supported gun contol and years ago supported a proposed statewide ban on handguns in the Commonwealth.
|
#27
|
||||
|
||||
Wow this came much closer then I ever thought it would
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Not here or in IL and WI, but in the 47 other states, yes
__________________
False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/ |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
As far as I know, Lugar and Voinovich were retiring. They've generally always been anti-RKBA.
Right now, there's a Democratic primary between Arlen Spector and Joe Sestak. Pat Toomey is on the Republican side. Should ask Sestak if he supports this bill. If he does, good bye Spector. |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---58 Alexander (R-TN) Barrasso (R-WY) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Begich (D-AK) Bennet (D-CO) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burr (R-NC) Casey (D-PA) Chambliss (R-GA) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Dorgan (D-ND) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Feingold (D-WI) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hagan (D-NC) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Johanns (R-NE) Johnson (D-SD) Kyl (R-AZ) Landrieu (D-LA) Lincoln (D-AR) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-NE) Pryor (D-AR) Reid (D-NV) Risch (R-ID) Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Snowe (R-ME) Tester (D-MT) Thune (R-SD) Udall (D-CO) Udall (D-NM) Vitter (R-LA) Warner (D-VA) Webb (D-VA) Wicker (R-MS) NAYs ---39 Akaka (D-HI) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Burris (D-IL) Cantwell (D-WA) Cardin (D-MD) Carper (D-DE) Dodd (D-CT) Durbin (D-IL) Feinstein (D-CA) Franken (D-MN) Gillibrand (D-NY) Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Kaufman (D-DE) Kerry (D-MA) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lugar (R-IN) McCaskill (D-MO) Menendez (D-NJ) Merkley (D-OR) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL) Reed (D-RI) Rockefeller (D-WV) Sanders (I-VT) Schumer (D-NY) Shaheen (D-NH) Specter (D-PA) Stabenow (D-MI) Voinovich (R-OH) Whitehouse (D-RI) Wyden (D-OR)
__________________
HMM-161 Westpac 1994 |
#31
|
||||
|
||||
My thoughts are that maybe it's better if they don't know if we have firearms or not. Not to sound too tinfoil here, but If it's a constitutional right to bear arms to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, perhaps not knowing if I have a gun or not will keep them honest. I'm not promoting any illegal activity here, but I know that I'm a much more polite driver in a violent area when I think someone might shoot me if I do something stupid. Just a thought.
While I would have liked to see this pass to avoid having to worry about being able to carry concealed, and I'm appalled at the idea that the senate wants to tell me when I can protect myself and when I can't, I'm just saying, maybe CCW's are a form of gun control that we don't need period. |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
Yeah I have to agree we were so close. I still think a massive recall to DiFi and Boxer would be a good idea right now since they seem to ignore the federal law says that 2A exists. They are federal representatives.
|
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Its part of the reason the political threads here were so destructive to the cause
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Seems like a good time to send Dicklugar some love notes.
__________________
Life is too short to drive a Ferrari... Last edited by RomanDad; 07-22-2009 at 11:00 AM.. |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
Yep, also I wonder if the three not voting were done to sit and watch if they had enough votes to pass to have the three non-voters to step up and vote to hose the bill regardless.
|
#39
|
||||
|
||||
Actually, the impact would have been to IMPROVE the benefits of a CCW to their constituents. Idiots!
__________________
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
I don't see this as a "States Rights" issue.
The State can still not issue CCW's. All this would have done is require the state to honor the license like it would a DL, marriage license. If you pass the BAR in one state is it also good in ALL states? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|