Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:14 PM
RacerRTR RacerRTR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Novato Ca.
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Does anyone have experience with Enterprise Arms or DSA FN/FAL rifles? They both offer CA versions, but the DSA version uses stripper clips. Doing a little research before I decide what to do with my tax return. Any information would be appreciated
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:14 PM
RacerRTR RacerRTR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Novato Ca.
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Does anyone have experience with Enterprise Arms or DSA FN/FAL rifles? They both offer CA versions, but the DSA version uses stripper clips. Doing a little research before I decide what to do with my tax return. Any information would be appreciated
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:58 PM
Rascal's Avatar
Rascal Rascal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,053
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have a DSArms SA-58. It's a great rifle, and built very well. All FAL clones coming into the state either have to have the pistol grip removed or have a fixed 10 round mag. I used to shoot my SA-58 without the pistol grip, but it was a PITA, so I finally put the 20 rounders away in the safe and fixed a 10 rounder in the magwell, so I could use the pistol grip again. I purchased the modified mag catch from Adonis on this board and bought a 10 rounder from DSArms. I got a stripper clip scope mount from Tapco and I was good to go. Using stripper clips is a much easier way to go when loading your FAL. JMHO
__________________
Rascal

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." B.Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-06-2005, 5:24 PM
50 Freak's Avatar
50 Freak 50 Freak is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,435
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

I'd consider building one using a Imbel receiver from Dealers Warehouse. Then buying the stripper clip cover and the fixed 10 round mag. Will be cheaper and you probably will get something on par with DS Arms if not better for a third of the price.

Here is my quick change barrel FAL folder (total cost was about $1300). This will take a 20 inch "sniper" barrel, 16 inch carbine (as shown) and a 16 inch 9mm sten mag conversion all on one receiver.


__________________
I'm Rick James...Be-otch!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2005, 10:36 PM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

What is the url for Dealers Warehouse and do they sell the receiver with the fixed mag?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-06-2005, 10:49 PM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the quick reply. How is it that the receiver is legal to sell to California? Is it because it isn't on the list?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-06-2005, 10:53 PM
SI-guru SI-guru is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 437
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I have a DSA tactical carbine with the TAPCO rail cover. That cover is a cheap POS Chinese made cover that will wobble any scope you put on it. But they are the only game in town. I really wonder if any have tried to mill out a regular ARMS or DSA rail cover for opening with stripper guide. It should looks like a better option.



I like my SOCOM better now, at least it has detachable magazine.
__________________
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-06-2005, 11:17 PM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Thank you for the info. Now I have to go to Falfiles and figure out what is involved.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-07-2005, 7:02 AM
Turbinator's Avatar
Turbinator Turbinator is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,262
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jjc:
I have a DSA tactical carbine with the TAPCO rail cover. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JJC, that is one mean looking FAL! Nice job!

Turby
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-07-2005, 7:53 AM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,794
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">cg wrote:
How is it that the receiver is legal to sell to California? Is it because it isn't on the list? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct.

There are 3 classes of AWs in Calif:

&nbsp<LI> Type I: specific named AWs (manufacturer and model) from Roberti-Roos 1989 Assault Weapons Control Act (AWCA '89);

&nbsp<LI> Type II: AR and AK "series" weapons: the Aug 2000 Kasler decision essentially
classifies all ARs and AKs no matter manufacturer or model name into Type I category;

&nbsp<LI> Type III: "by feature" weapons. Semiauto rifles w/detachable mags can't have other evil features like pistol grips, flash hiders, etc.

FAL clones (a la Imbel, DSA, Coonan, etc. receivers) are Type III AWs in Calif. If they have a certain # of evil features in CA they must've been reg'd by Dec 31 2000 to be legally possessed (unless a stripper-clip-fed 10rd fixed mag "CaliFAL" version). The receiver itself here is not considered an AW.

By contrast, a true FN FAL mfgd by Fabrique Nationale was specifically banned by name; even possession of an unregistered FN FAL receiver is a crime.


Bill Wiese
San Jose
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:55 AM
icormba's Avatar
icormba icormba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,805
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

just under a total of $650 got me this...


it's a Israeli South African/American

larger pic:
http://m1garand.net/M1Pics/Chris/FAL/Image2.jpg
__________________
Chris
http://www.m1garand.net
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-07-2005, 11:35 AM
Rascal's Avatar
Rascal Rascal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,053
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

jjc, I also have the Tapco stripper/scope mount on my FAL, but don't seem to be having any problems like you are having? Maybe I just got lucky, as it does hold in place and almost returns to zero when taken off and put back on to the point of just a couple of clicks to be right on zero in the horizontal (windage) mode and is right on in elavation.
__________________
Rascal

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." B.Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-07-2005, 1:06 PM
SI-guru SI-guru is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 437
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Rascal,
You are a luck man. Or should I say, I am the unluck man ?
__________________
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-08-2005, 5:24 PM
RacerRTR RacerRTR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Novato Ca.
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Hey 50, Thanks for the information. Looks like I'm going to try my first from scratch build, should be fun. Once I get started I'll be coming to you for advice/help.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-08-2005, 7:30 PM
pidooma's Avatar
pidooma pidooma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 269
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Speaking of FALs, I just picked up my Izzy-Franken-Cali FAL at UPS which I had built/refinished by CGW. Looking forward to getting this baby out to the range.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-08-2005, 7:34 PM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

I have a question for Fifty: With the folding stock folded, is she at least 30" and which length barrel do you have? General question: Has anybody been able to get a receiver from DSA? The reason I ask, the website says California laws apply and they will not really talk to me to clarify until I get them my FFL.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-09-2005, 11:24 AM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,794
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">cg wrote:
With the folding stock folded, is she at least 30" and which length barrel do you have? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure, but I think standard is that measurement is made w/stock open.

I'm pretty sure Fed/BATF does the 26" rule with _unfolded_ stock, even if length is shorter than 26" when folded/retracted.

I'll try to dig up more...


Bill Wiese
San Jose
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-09-2005, 11:59 AM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Bill, ever mind on the length I forgot the magazine is pinned in which case the length shouldn't matter since it is not an assualt weapon.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-09-2005, 12:26 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,794
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">cgwrote:
never mind on the length I forgot the magazine is pinned in which case the length shouldn't matter since it is not an assualt weapon </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite! See law quoted below.

The less-than-30" attribute is an evil feature that is entirely separate from pistol grips, flash hiders, etc. A semiauto centerfile rifle whose length is less than 30" is an AW in Calif regardless of pistol grip, detachable mag, etc.

A Mini 14, for example, w/a regular but cut-down rear stock and a 16" bbl might be able to get under 30" and thus be an AW in CA.

On this CaliFAL we're discussing, the fixed locap magazine is what allows the folding stock. My prior comment above was that the OAL might be measured w/stock open.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">CPC 12276.1.:
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Bill Wiese
San Jose
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-09-2005, 5:03 PM
imported_edbon9 imported_edbon9 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: sf, ca
Posts: 42
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
Has anybody been able to get a receiver from DSA? The reason I ask, the website says California laws apply and they will not really talk to me to clarify until I get them my FFL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, people have been able to get dsa receivers, and they don't really like talking to peons without ffl's also, the coonans are very nice made in the USA receivers.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-09-2005, 6:01 PM
-hanko's Avatar
-hanko -hanko is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bay Area & SW Idaho
Posts: 9,499
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
I'm pretty sure Fed/BATF does the 26" rule with _unfolded_ stock, even if length is shorter than 26" when folded/retracted.
Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe it's worst case: folded.

My para measures a tad over 26", folded, as far as I can remember; barrel is out for threading, & I'll post an exact measurement when I get it back & install on the receiver. Barrel length is 16-1/8, measured to the bolt face. A shorty Stoll fh will add another +/- another inch or so.

Next one will be with an 18-inch chromed Imbel barrel, which I think is the best compromise with blast, bullet velocity, flash, and ease of handling considered. I have Imbel & Venezuelan fh's to play on the next build.

-hanko
__________________
"Tactical" is like boobs...you can sell anything with it....arf


Originally Posted By System Message:
Why can't you guys participate in a simple discussion about some guy's mom making a porno without violating the COC? This is why we can't have nice things.



“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-10-2005, 4:24 PM
C.G.'s Avatar
C.G. C.G. is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Yeah, I might end up with the Coonan; since I am in a Catch-22 situation with DSA, I would like to have information first and then send FFL - they want FFL and then they will talk.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2005, 10:09 PM
50 Freak's Avatar
50 Freak 50 Freak is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,435
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

My Fal is registered as an AW, hence the folding stock. I haven't measured it folded, but I'm pretty sure folded it is over 26'.

As for the DS para receiver, I placed an order back in April of 2004. So I was one of the firsts to get my stock. DS shipped it to me (in Cali) with no problems.
__________________
I'm Rick James...Be-otch!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-17-2005, 3:17 PM
RacerRTR RacerRTR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Novato Ca.
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Well I've gone and done it now and decided to start a new addiction (besides 1911's) and I ordered a fal kit should be here in a week or so. guess I'll order the Imbrel receiver next check. Besides CGW in nevada does anyone have suggestions for assembnly/refinishing in the SF Bay Area?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-17-2005, 3:43 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,794
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Racer...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RacerRTR:
ordered a fal kit should be here in a week or so. guess I'll order the Imbrel receiver next check. Besides CGW in nevada does anyone have suggestions for assembly/refinishing in the SF Bay Area? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno of anyone in Bay Area building FALs. Bay Area cost structure is too high and FAL building is not a huge business.

You are going to also need 6 or 7 US-mfgd "compliance parts" to follow Section 922(r) 'domestic content' rules.

But CGW is the closest 'smith of national repute to Bay Area and does fine fine work. You can send your rifle (receiver, parts, etc.) to him via US Mail - just have to declare it as rifle at post office.

You might want him to look over your parts kit before he starts building and see if he recommends any replacement parts.

If you are going the 'CaliFAL' route w/fixed 10rd magazine, CGW (or other smith) can send rifle back directly to you.

If you are going to have him make you a FAL clone without pistol grip have your smith ENSURE he doesn't send rifle back to you with pistol grip - because that's an (illegal) unregistred assault weapon.

(I'd be very careful about transportation of a pistol-grip-less FAL and a pistol grip together even if locked separately.

Bill Wiese
San Jose
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-17-2005, 4:22 PM
RacerRTR RacerRTR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Novato Ca.
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

That's what I figured I would do. let him inspect and then order as needed. I figured the safest bet would be to build a cal version with fixed mag and stripper top cover. do you have any suggestions as far as finish goes, repark or something else?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-17-2005, 4:24 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,794
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RacerRTR:
That's what I figured I would do. let him inspect and then order as needed. I figured the safest bet would be to build a cal version with fixed mag and stripper top cover. do you have any suggestions as far as finish goes, repark or something else? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes he will repark and it will look beautiful/ brand new.

My FAL (reg'd AW) was reassembled/refinished by Rich. Imbel + Israeli front end + STG58 lower.

The STG58 lower was dinged up a bit but it looks minty-new now.

He also has some fancier DuraCoat finishes, etc. But I prefer heavy parkerizing myself.

Bill
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:41 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.