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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2005, 6:13 PM
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Dang...RIP for all the victims. This is so sad.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/sch...ing/index.html
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:20 AM
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Mike,

Apologies if my posts were over-strident.
95% of time you and I agree on things here.

All I was really saying is that religion scares lots of people - like it does me - and that if gun owners are perceived largely on that basis, esp in CA, we are going to win fewer & fewer elections. And our gun rights go down the drain further!

And now back to AR15 cleaning, maintenance and operation...

Bill
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2005, 10:16 AM
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I believe God created the world by setting events in motion. One of which was evolution.

It is possible to reconcile science with religion...even for an "uneducated lout" like myself.

I guess I should have clarified by not saying stem cells, but by specifically meaning embryonic stem cells...the process for creating embryos to specifically harvest stem cells. I believe life begins at conception. I didn't realize we all had to go to medical school to discuss crap on a forum now.

We're getting way off topic and frankly after seeing the way you talk to people, I don't think this is the proper forum for starting a discussion on science or religion or when life begins or who has the right to take it.

I'm guilty of probably expounding too much when I should have just said that there is an element in education that is teaching a very negative outlook on the value of life and left it at that.
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Old 03-22-2005, 9:50 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:

Changing subject, sentiments like what you've expressed paint gunowners as backwards folks who haven't opened a science book, further equating gun onwner = trailer park education.

This is why we lose elections in California. Folks here who can read & write are scared of the antiscience folks and identify/associate gun onwership as an element of that instead of it being seen as a fundamental freedom.

If some pro-gun R's will just keep their mouth shut on abortion issues, there's a small chance we can get some gunrights back.

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm not running for office. I also don't speak for all gunowners, nor do I pretend to. Just gave my personal view on a subject.

Forgive me for not being as intelligent as you are. Also forgive me for not compromising my principles for the sake of political expediency.

Are you saying I have a trailer park education?
Are you saying I am anti-science?
Backward?

Whatever, dude.

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  #5  
Old 03-22-2005, 9:06 AM
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I think some of the biggest issues here are that most high schools are warehouses where there's no individual attention.

2000+ kids in a school? That's not a school, it's a zoo/prison. The borderline folks just get lost and cycle downwards.

While I do agree with you on abortion - esp 'partial birth' stuff - for a few weeks of cell growth I just don't give a damn, esp if there's been a history of 'air wastage' by the family. Probably fewer Democrats & welfare recipients ultimately.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> starving a handicapped woman </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This case was blown out of proportion by some parents over-analyzing some eye movements. She is DEAD. Her brain has been LIQUID for 10? 15? years. The PERSON is gone, there is just some basic cell life. She just happens to breathe due to reptilian brain function that controls a few basic body functions. As I understand it, she expressed this in something like a living will.

[At the same time I do not like Schiavo's husband - there's something 'not quite right' about him.]

Taking people 'off the tube' or 'off the machine' is done all the time. My late dad had a "DNR" (Do Not Resuscitate) order when he was in nursing home. When his time came, they might in theory have been able to restart his heart but by that time he'd've been a vegetable and he of course didn't want that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> harvesting stem cells, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, that's going a bit far. Stem cells are just precursor cells. No fetus died - we're back at the blastocyst stage.

Changing subject, sentiments like what you've expressed paint gunowners as backwards folks who haven't opened a science book, further equating gun onwner = trailer park education.

This is why we lose elections in California. Folks here who can read & write are scared of the antiscience folks and identify/associate gun onwership as an element of that instead of it being seen as a fundamental freedom.

If some pro-gun R's will just keep their mouth shut on abortion issues, there's a small chance we can get some gunrights back.

Bill Wiese
San Jose
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  #6  
Old 03-22-2005, 8:22 AM
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I think if you want to start pointing the finger at anyone, you might aim it at a culture of death, first.

Abortion on demand, starving a handicapped woman, harvesting stem cells, etc.

Maybe when they start teaching kids that every life has meaning and life is to be cherished, respected, and protected...then you'll see an end to this sort of thing.

How are you going to teach that when you are telling children that if there life is inconvenienced by a pregnancy, it's perfectly fine to murder the baby?

How can you teach that when you have a throng of people rejoicing in the starvation death of a brain damaged woman?
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2005, 12:53 AM
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Looks like 2 handguns and shotgun were used.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/
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Old 03-22-2005, 5:17 AM
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We should ban cops from having guns since the shooter obtained them from a police officer.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2005, 6:13 PM
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Dang...RIP for all the victims. This is so sad.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/sch...ing/index.html
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Old 03-22-2005, 9:00 AM
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I was joking about the cop's gun. The murderer could have gotten a gun anywhere. He could have built a bomb or run them over with a car.

Only a civilian with a gun could have stopped this or reduced the violence. Gun free victim zones (schools) only encourage murder.

Everytime I go to my daughters school, I have my Glock 27... School plays, parent teacher conferences, and just dropping her off and picking her up. I consider it a public service to be armed.

I only wish the teachers were armed as well as I am.
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Old 03-24-2005, 6:49 AM
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The boy in Red Lake had the "signs", but as usual, they were ignored.

In the Schiavo case, she won a 1.2 million medical malpratice case. And her husband is living with another woman and had two kids with her. Follow the money.
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2005, 8:00 AM
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And the more they talk about the kid and not the families, nor the guard, nor the school, the more they are playing up his publicity and making him famous. This seems to be an important component for some of these shooters, having their face plastered on TeeVee for all to see. Even if it is post-mortem.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Admin:
A big problem is political correctness. It's killing people. I hear so much talk about the murderer and why he did it. He was depressed, he came from a bad family etc.

Who cares?

He deserves nothing less than a bullet to the brain.
I mean really who cares about the dirtbag? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2005, 10:01 AM
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Hi Mike...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are you saying I am anti-science? Backward? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I'll back off a bit and just say your sentiments, as expressed, are shared by those who are. Usually it's accompanied by anti-evolution 'creationist' crap too.

This whole stem-cell debate shows who understood biology class.

(BTW: I did vote against the Stem Cell proposition in last election - but only for financial reasons, CA has no business writing up more bond issues!)


Bill Wiese
San Jose
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2005, 11:43 PM
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This is horrible, God bless the families and friends. It breaks your heart to see these kinds of tragedies. One CCW in the right place maybe could have made a difference.
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Old 03-24-2005, 3:52 AM
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The sad thing is that kids lost their lives .
the Stem Cell research case is to be made only if strict controles at to what end those cells will be used . I support the research into curing diseases like Parkinsons and such but am a bit worried about the possibility of the whole cloning thing .

In the Schiavo case , my view is that it is and should remain a family affair , neither the State nore the GOP has the right to interfere in my opinion .

Guns should never be tied to religious beliefs or any other then it being one of our basic right provided by the US Constitution .
If we begin to attempt to win elections along a pro gun , pro religion debatte then we can watch the Liverals use a tactic of divide and conquer .
My beliefs concerning abortion are my private business , my religion is my private business . The US Constitution is all americans business .
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Old 03-21-2005, 9:17 PM
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Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with our society today...
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:19 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Admin:
A big problem is political correctness. It's killing people. I hear so much talk about the murderer and why he did it. He was depressed, he came from a bad family etc.

Who cares?

He deserves nothing less than a bullet to the brain.

Do you realize that school security manning the metal detector was unarmed? Why? Because adminstrators are to chicken to do what they have to.

They have someone that mans a metal detector looking for weapons but this individual can't do anything if he finds them. It's not PC no matter what. What's security going to do? Threaten to pinch someone?

If you have a metal detector obviously you're concerned about a problem concerning weapons. Another case of shooting fish in a barrel in a "weapon free" zone.

I mean really who cares about the dirtbag? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

right too the point! it's so obvious I can't believe no one else picked up on it? hey... I was thinking the same thing last night!
You got a metal detector, great! but what good is it? If I was an unarmed guard and the detector went off... I'd just let the kid go right in, what am I gonna do? try talking him away from his gun? Even my highschool back in the late 80's had off duty cops "carrying" as our hired on campus narcs & I lived in the good part of town.

HE was a stupid young kid who wanted to be remembered for doing something big while trying to "punish" his peers and society for all his ills. stupid idiot!
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Old 03-22-2005, 7:22 AM
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Yes, we need to focus attention on inappropriate use of police firearms.

For example, many CalGunners will probably remember the lawsuit against Beretta (purported issues: loaded chamber indicator, mag disconnect) by Kenzo Dix when her son Griffin
was killed. in Antioch, CA in early 90s.

This was a direct result of a cop casually storing his gun and not training/supervising the kid (not Griffin Dix, but his friend) properly.

Violation of safe storage law(s) but cop was never charged!

Bill Wiese
San Jose
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Old 03-24-2005, 7:44 AM
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A big problem is political correctness. It's killing people. I hear so much talk about the murderer and why he did it. He was depressed, he came from a bad family etc.

Who cares?

He deserves nothing less than a bullet to the brain.

Do you realize that school security manning the metal detector was unarmed? Why? Because adminstrators are to chicken to do what they have to.

They have someone that mans a metal detector looking for weapons but this individual can't do anything if he finds them. It's not PC no matter what. What's security going to do? Threaten to pinch someone?

If you have a metal detector obviously you're concerned about a problem concerning weapons. Another case of shooting fish in a barrel in a "weapon free" zone.

I mean really who cares about the dirtbag?
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