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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-14-2009, 6:25 PM
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Default Defending my pets on private property

Is it legal for me to use (lethal) force to defend my pets against another animal, say an invading pet in my backyard?
I would obviously not be using a firearm that uses explosive powder, just an air gun.
Whats the law on this?

Thanks!
I do understand that this is Calguns, not a court of law, so I understand that any advice I get here may not be held accountable to anyone here.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:32 PM
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If by lethal, you mean lethal force on the dog and not a human being, then sure, go for it if that dog is seriously harming or killing your dog.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:35 PM
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Angry

I figured most people would assume enemy dog versus my dog, so I used "pet." The situation is someone's cat is eating my koi in one of my ponds, and me and my parents are getting pissed. So far, the cat, or possibly, cats, have eliminated about 15 of my fish.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:37 PM
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Trap the cat and take it to the pound.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:50 PM
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It is likely not a cat...unless you've seen it. I have friends with koi ponds. One ha a racoon, the other a oppossum and one had a large bird, crane like.
My bet is on a bird or racoon.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:54 PM
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racoons will have a field day (well night, actually) on koi...
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2009, 6:55 PM
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+1 on the Racoons or the large crane type birds. My friend has a pond as well and he has seen this happen in his back yard.
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Old 07-14-2009, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Trap the cat and take it to a pond.
Fixed it fer ya.....
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2009, 6:57 PM
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Maybe put a net above the pond?

Pond Netting
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2009, 6:58 PM
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I have a family friend in Huntington Beach who has a koi pond in his back yard. His fish kept disappearing and you'll never guess who the culprit was...Herons. Great big white herons. So he put a flexible plastic mesh-like material around the pond to keep the birds out. That worked pretty good until one day one of the herons got into the pond and couldn't get out again...I wasn't there but apparently that bird went apes*&# trying to get out and the fence had to be rebuilt.
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Old 07-14-2009, 7:01 PM
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I lost hundreds of dollars worth of Koi to egrets and herons. The cats in the neighborhood never got them. Of course, the Border Collie hates cat so they didn't come around much.
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Old 07-14-2009, 7:06 PM
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To herons/racoons, those koi are fish in a barrel...
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2009, 7:09 PM
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Cats probably won't be able to get to the Koi, you'd be more likely to see them face down in the water if they were stubborn enough to keep trying. My buddy said it was a "big ***** bird" that was the problem, I never asked what kind of bird.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2009, 7:17 PM
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I did ask this question to 2 different deputies (the ones I know but not my friends) and they all say shoot the cats and make sure they could not go back to their house (troubles), one deputy even told me that he used 22LR rifle kill one cat and his neighbors not even noticed. But they are officers, they can get away easy, not us!
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2009, 7:41 PM
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Sounds like it's time to call StorkBusters!
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2009, 7:49 PM
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I have a koi pond.... Ive been hit by both Raccoons and Herons (BIG BIRDS!).

If you discover your fish are missing, but nothing else is disturbed- Thats a Heron. And Im fairly certain the are a protected species.

If you discover your fish are missing and it looks like a 500 pound man took a bath in your pond and got his fat *** stuck in the bottom, couldnt get out, panicked and destroyed everything in a ten foot radius- Thats a raccoon.

You need one of these. I installed one and never had a problem again....

Heres a photo of my pond the day it was installed.... I probably should have waited for the water to settle before I snapped the photo.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2009, 7:53 PM
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I got one for you. A guy has a female dog who's in heat. The house directly behind him has a dog that has now jumped the fence to get to the female dog.
The guy is outside attending to his garden, the dog see's him and attacks.
What do you do?
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2009, 8:11 PM
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Haha, thanks for all the replies.
I doubt it is a coon because I've never seen one around here (Elk Grove). I live in an area with no fields around, its all developed.
I have never seen a heron around here either, although it is possible as there is the Stone Lake wild life reserve a few miles away.
My fish are disappearing from my shallow pond, which is above ground with about 20in of water. My deeper pond, which goes down 4ft has never had problems, except for frogs and toads eating up all my fish's eggs and fry.
But, the question remains, if I camp outside tonight, and see a cat, coon, or a non-endangered species, besides human, attacking my fish, can I shoot it?

Edit: of course I CAN shoot it; MAY I shoot it? I saw the post about LEO's shooting them, but I'm no leo.

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  #19  
Old 07-14-2009, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson_wwsc View Post
I have never seen a heron around here either, although it is possible as there is the Stone Lake wild life reserve a few miles away.
Birds can FLY. There are countless egrets and herons in the area around the rice fields, etc.
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Old 07-14-2009, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
I got one for you. A guy has a female dog who's in heat. The house directly behind him has a dog that has now jumped the fence to get to the female dog.
The guy is outside attending to his garden, the dog see's him and attacks.
What do you do?
What I do is reach in my back pocket and apply one .22 LR bullet from my NAA Mini to the offending animal; repeat as necessary.

He, on the other hand may have had to apply whatever garden implement he had in his hand.
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  #21  
Old 07-14-2009, 8:20 PM
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Looks like you've already found the answer.

Get a deeper pond.
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Old 07-14-2009, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutish View Post
Birds can FLY. There are countless egrets and herons in the area around the rice fields, etc.
Yes, but perhaps I was incomplete in my description of the problem.
The fish seem to disappear only at night, and according to a previous research paper I did on herons and egrets, they are dinural animals. I also have a small/medium dog, but he seems not to bark at cats.
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Old 07-14-2009, 8:20 PM
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Racoons tend to travel via the sewers in the city, I've seen entire families crawl out from the sewers here in santa clara. They tend to come out late at night (2am ish or so) so I hope you have plently of coffee handy.

I would place some traps out and once caught, give them a badly needed injection of pb from your choice of despenser...........


Croc4
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2009, 8:26 PM
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+1 on the Scarecrow, it will frighten away birds, cats, and coyotes, but the racoons just use it as a shower. We have Great Blue Herons here and I am certain that they have more rights and better representation than you, the racoons, on the other hand, not so much.
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Old 07-14-2009, 8:42 PM
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I've had ponds for the past 7 years or so. I don't keep expensive koi for the reasons stated above (as I knew what would likely happen to them) but cheap goldfish to actually feed the birds. I love it when I see great blue herons, great egrets, cattle egrets, snowy egrets, black-crowned night herons, green herons, etc. foraging in my pond. In fact, I've always considered my ponds giant bird feeders, bird baths, habitat for whatever wildlife finds it. I welcome all birds, mammals, amphibians, reptiles, etc. that make their way into my yard. The kids love it too.

I do, however, understand the frustration you are facing. I certainly wouldn't want any of my expensive pets being eaten or stolen by anything or anyone. Have you considered an automatic sprinker (rain bird type) on a motion sensor? Comes on and squirts the birds, cats, etc. that attempt to raid your pond. They work really well for that type of thing. A friend of mine is a professional pond designer/creator. He uses them himself at his elaborate personal set up with lots of very nice koi.

On the legal end, I'm pretty sure that it is unlawful to shoot non-game birds such as herons and egrets (your most likely culprits), as they are federally protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and also state protected by Fish and Game code. I think you can get a license to shoot racoons however. The city you live in, however, may have an ordinance against shooting air rifles (and firearms) within city limits. You should check that before the neighbors report you.

Good luck. PM me if you want to talk to my friend who designs ponds, etc.

RJ
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Old 07-14-2009, 9:06 PM
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You could put up a cheapo video camera and record overnight to make it easy on you.
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Old 07-14-2009, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Trap the cat and throw it in the pond.
fixed
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Old 07-14-2009, 9:41 PM
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Old 07-14-2009, 9:49 PM
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i say just shoot it. i live in cameron park(east of Folsom) and have had to take out "pests" in my ponds or trash cans. but El Dorado county is a little more lax on things like that than Sac county
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River Jack View Post
I do, however, understand the frustration you are facing. I certainly wouldn't want any of my expensive pets being eaten or stolen by anything or anyone. Have you considered an automatic sprinker (rain bird type) on a motion sensor? Comes on and squirts the birds, cats, etc. that attempt to raid your pond. They work really well for that type of thing. A friend of mine is a professional pond designer/creator. He uses them himself at his elaborate personal set up with lots of very nice koi.



RJ
I've never heard of these sprinklers till now, I will definately look into them.
I should also mention that the fish in my shallow pond are the less desireable ones (the're dark and hard to see in the deep pond), but I still paid 10$ per 3 fish when I bought them.

I am still very skeptical that it could be a big bird eating my fish though, because I have never seen such a bird around my house or immediate area. Also, like I said, the fish seem to disappear at night.
And, there are no coons around where I live; neighbors agree.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:28 PM
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we had a prob with escaped hogs rampaging through the property a few years back, neither animal control nor the sherriffs would touch it. both told me in so many words that if they're destroying your property you can use as much force as necessary. animals are property in the eyes of the law.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson_wwsc View Post
I figured most people would assume enemy dog versus my dog, so I used "pet." The situation is someone's cat is eating my koi in one of my ponds, and me and my parents are getting pissed. So far, the cat, or possibly, cats, have eliminated about 15 of my fish.
Have you considered mounting freakin lasers on their heads?

They work well on my freakin sharks.

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Old 07-15-2009, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Trap the cat and take it to the pound.
They can track down the legal owner of this cat. Then sue them for thousands of $$$. KOI are not cheap gold fish. Several UC Santa Cruz students were prosecuted, after catching one of these exotic fish in a pond on campus and cooked it for dinner. That practical joke was filmed for MTV's "REEL WORLD" and they got busted...
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiko View Post
I did ask this question to 2 different deputies (the ones I know but not my friends) and they all say shoot the cats and make sure they could not go back to their house (troubles), one deputy even told me that he used 22LR rifle kill one cat and his neighbors not even noticed. But they are officers, they can get away easy, not us!
Well, here is a related story. An acquaintance had her expensive purebred cat stolen when the cat strayed into a neighbor's yard and the neighbor took it in. She called the cops, but the police said that because the cat strayed into the neighbor's yard, the neighbor could keep it and there was nothing they could do about it. Her only hope is that the cat escapes and wanders back into her yard and steal it back. This may have been a city ordinance, so YMMV.

But if it is applicable to you, when the cat wanders into your yard, you instantly "take possession" of it and simultaneously euthanize it.
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Old 07-15-2009, 5:04 AM
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Originally Posted by aethyr View Post
Well, here is a related story. An acquaintance had her expensive purebred cat stolen when the cat strayed into a neighbor's yard and the neighbor took it in. She called the cops, but the police said that because the cat strayed into the neighbor's yard, the neighbor could keep it and there was nothing they could do about it. Her only hope is that the cat escapes and wanders back into her yard and steal it back. This may have been a city ordinance, so YMMV.

But if it is applicable to you, when the cat wanders into your yard, you instantly "take possession" of it and simultaneously euthanize it.
It's sounds like her cat wasn't licensed. That makes it harder to prove that it was hers in the first place. Otherwise, there is always small claims court and any judge would return a cat to it;s lawful owner...
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Old 07-15-2009, 5:24 AM
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Old 07-15-2009, 5:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson_wwsc View Post
I figured most people would assume enemy dog versus my dog, so I used "pet." The situation is someone's cat is eating my koi in one of my ponds, and me and my parents are getting pissed. So far, the cat, or possibly, cats, have eliminated about 15 of my fish.
Owl is/was the culprit in my backyard, lost over 20 fish in one year, we too thought it was a cat till I caught a look of it carrying one of them away.
Now we have no fish.
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Old 07-15-2009, 6:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Have you considered mounting freakin lasers on their heads?

They work well on my freakin sharks.

My dog would just kill freakin everything. Go BRUINS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinkix1953 View Post
They can track down the legal owner of this cat. Then sue them for thousands of $$$. KOI are not cheap gold fish. Several UC Santa Cruz students were prosecuted, after catching one of these exotic fish in a pond on campus and cooked it for dinner. That practical joke was filmed for MTV's "REEL WORLD" and they got busted...
That's why they wanted to demote UCSC down to a state school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liketoshoot View Post
Owl is/was the culprit in my backyard, lost over 20 fish in one year, we too thought it was a cat till I caught a look of it carrying one of them away.
Now we have no fish.
wow.. that is sad. I wonder if we can sue the city like cousinkix1953 suggested we could do against the owner of someone's cat?
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Old 07-15-2009, 6:43 AM
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Ironically, I spotted our Racoon as I woke up early thismorning to open the windows and let the cool air in.

He was lumbering across the backyard. He was NOT afraid of me at all. chased him over the fence and watched him go underneath the vacant houses' crawl space.

Q: Do I make a Coon Skin cap? Call animal control? Leave it be?
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Old 07-15-2009, 7:42 AM
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I think the OP's point is that he's a cat hater and just wants to kill one...oh ya, he's got Koi too.

Meanwhile ya really should just find out what's happening to your fish.
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