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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-25-2005, 8:35 PM
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Are these legal in California? Completely original.
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Old 02-27-2005, 7:48 PM
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Right, bayonet lugs are OK. Threaded barrels are OK (on rifles, not on pistols).

There's no need to remove either, though some folks do turn down the threads or weld a muzzle brake on, but you don't have to.

The MAS 59 or 59/66 is legal to own without the grenade launcher, even with the barrel threads left on.
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Old 02-26-2005, 7:04 PM
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Not sure if it is 308 or 7.5 the receiver says 7.5 but the mag says 308. How can I tell for sure?
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Old 02-26-2005, 5:56 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Searson:
And they need to ban the lightsabers with red exhaust because the evil sith lords use those.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But if you take away my lightsaber, how will I be able to slash from midair the grenades people are always lauching at me?
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Old 02-26-2005, 9:59 PM
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OK, here's the deal. The grenade launcher is not part of the AW issue; it's just plain illegal all by itself. If you take it off the gun, it's still illegal, but the gun is now legal. As jmlivingston pointed out, the launcher itself is defined as a "Destructive Device", regardless of what it's mounted to.

The MAS 49/56 has a combo muzzle brake/launcher, as below:

http://home.comcast.net/~americanfir...ge/MAS4956.htm
"The MAS-49/56 differs from the MAS-49 in having the fore-end shortened so as to leave more barrel exposed, and the integral grenade-launcher has been replaced by a combined grenade-launcher and muzzle brake."

The MAS 49 grenade launcher is a permanent part of the barrel, and would need to be cut off, while the 49/56 is removable.

To be legal, the grenade launcher on a 49/56 needs to be removed and either destroyed or sent out of state. It's silly, but that's the law.

As for the caliber, if it's marked 7.5, I'd have the chamber cast by a 'smith to verify that it's been converted to .308. That's the only way to be 100% sure.

You can do it yourself, but the cerrosafe casting compound can be tricky to use until you get some practice, so you'd probably want to try on something cheap.

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Old 02-25-2005, 8:41 PM
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Removing the grenade launcher isn't too big a deal. If you did the rifle would be perfectly legal.
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Old 02-26-2005, 7:20 PM
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Old 02-26-2005, 4:35 PM
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That's true. You used to see the MAS 49s at gun shows with the grenade launcher because the awareness was low, but the Yugos got people thinking more about it, and now they've disappeared.
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Old 02-26-2005, 11:59 AM
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So with a removable 10 round clip, it would appear to have a muzzle brake, launcher(that I can remove) how about the bayo lug? then its legal?
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2005, 7:19 PM
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Old 02-27-2005, 8:34 PM
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The launcher slides off when the brake is unpinned and removed first. The brake has a clip ring locking the brake on then it just unscrews. Under the GL are ringed grooved into the barrel, nothing to remove but the launcher with spring.
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Old 02-26-2005, 5:39 PM
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Yes in CA it is illegal. Here you only need 1 evil feature, besides it having a removeable mag and being semi auto. The whole grenade launcher needs to be removed (too easily converted back)As long as a grenade will slip onto the launcher sleeve it is a no go. The threads have to be removed or covered with a sleeve/dummy end/compensator that is permanently attached(pinned,welded,silver soldered).You cannot have a flash hider-muzzle brake yes. Along with the bayonet lug. To be totally sure contact the DOJ and ask them. There isn't a federal ban ,so you are only dealing with the state now. Is it still in 7.5 French or converted to .308? The .308s had extraction problems due to rough chambers. If it is a .308 I say go for it. I wouldn't want to ruin a nice collector gun by making it CA PC. Another route is to make the magazine fixed to the receiver. Then you can keep the evil features like the bayo lug,flash hider,(everything except the GL). This would keep the overall original look of the gun intact. Then you just load from the top. This could be done a couple of different ways. From what I understand ,if you need to use a tool of some kind to remove the mag , it is considered fixed. An easy way would be to put the mag in and tack weld the latch closed to the mag body. You screw up a mag (cheap) but save a more expensive rifle.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2005, 9:09 AM
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Hi BigGunDoctor..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BIGGUNDOCTOR wrote:
The threads have to be removed or covered with a sleeve/ dummy end/ compensator that is permanently attached (pinned, welded, silver soldered). You cannot have a flash hider --muzzle brake yes. Along with the bayonet lug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Generally what you wrote is correct - gotta lose the grenade launcher for CA! - but you are mixing up some old (sunset) Fed AW law with CA law.

There's no Federal assault weapon laws anymore, so the part about threaded barrels and permanent attachment of muzzle devices is now completely moot: there's no CA law mandating this (different details then old sunset Fed AWB). Also, the barrel is longer than 16" so there's no NFA SBR reason to do this either (to have a permanent attachment bring it up to legal 16" length).

[For example, M1A rifles are sold daily in CA with a CA muzzle brake and aren't considered CA AWs. These brakes are simply threaded on in place of the stock flash hider.]

Bayonet lugs are NOT 'evil features' in Calif.: they were only evil in the Federal AW Ban that sunset in Sept 2004.

As a refresher to CA requirements, CPC 12276.1 lists these AW features:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
- Semiauto centerfire rifles w/capacity to accept detachable magazine and any one of:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath action
<LI> a thumbhole stock.
<LI> a folding or telescoping stock.
<LI> a grenade launcher or flare launcher.
<LI> a flash suppressor.
<LI> a forward pistol grip.[/list]- Semiauto centerfire rifles w/fixed magazines holding over 10 rounds
- Semiauto centerfire rifle w/overall length of less than 30"
- Semiauto pistol w/capacity to accept detachable magazine and any one of:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer
<LI> a second handgrip
<LI> barrel shroud to protect hand from burning
<LI> accepts detachable magazine at a location outside the pistol grip[/list]- semiauto pistols w/fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds
- semiauto shotguns with both of the following:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> folding or telescoping stock.
<LI> pistol grip, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip[/list]- semiauto shotguns w/ability to accept a detachable magazine
- Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill Wiese
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2005, 8:16 AM
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You'll have to use the goodguy lightsabre in blue or green...which is cool because then you can be on my team.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2005, 12:39 PM
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I want to buy it and get it shipped but only after modifications.
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Old 02-25-2005, 8:47 PM
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Am I looking at a flash supressor or a muzzle brake? It is as issued.
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Old 02-25-2005, 8:35 PM
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Are these legal in California? Completely original.
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2005, 5:08 PM
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As it is ,the only thing really "bad" is the grenade launcher. That is the only thing making it an assaut weapon. It doesn't have a pistol grip,so it can keep the detachable mag. It would not need to be fixed like on the AR's. I would take the complete GL off,and replace it with a compensator,or just leave it off. The difference between the 7.5 and the .308 are the chamber and the mag modifications. They were rechambered to .308-you can't shoot 7.5 anymore-and the mag lips were cut back for the .308 round. There is info about the mags and how to fix the feed problems on http://gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=37
I don't see bayonet lugs listed on the list of evil items-hmmmmmmm.
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:43 PM
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I think it should only be counted if the grenades can be picked up at the local hardware store.

And they need to ban the lightsabers with red exhaust because the evil sith lords use those.
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  #20  
Old 02-26-2005, 4:20 PM
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Wouldn't a grenade launcher be a destructive device just like with the Yugo SKS's? That would make it illegal here in CA.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2005, 2:22 PM
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I bought a 49/56 without grenade launcher a few years ago. I had all kinds of problems with it not cycling. Turns out it was the ammo. The stuff I had orignally used was I think 168gr stuff by FN(portugese stuff). They then started making it in 139gr form and wow what a difference. I don't really like anything French, but this is now one of my favorite rifles to shoot.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2005, 3:50 PM
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Just another FYI on these rifles. There is no bayonet lug.

The bayonet is unique in that it has 2 loops and slides over the end of the barrel. One of the loops has a little tab sticking down which inserts into a notch in the muzzle brake.

No lug, just a notch, a tiny one at that. Not illegal.

As I said before. Have someone unsrew the muzzle brake and slide the grenade launcher off. Screw the brake back on and fasten it the way it was originally.

Now for the threads, there are all kinds of discussions on this board saying that California doesn't actually prohibit threaded rifle barrels, only pistol barrels. So who's right?
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2005, 10:58 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whatever:
Remove that disk and you're good to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cool. I've never seen the MAS up close. Thought that it would require a sleeve permanently install like those on the Yugo SKS'
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Old 02-25-2005, 10:45 PM
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The muzzle device (it's a brake, BTW not a hider) is not the launcher. the grenade launcher is the disk behind it which can be moved up and down the barrel by the push of a button.

Remove that disk and you're good to go.
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2005, 4:47 PM
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I still do not think you can get away with just removing the launcher ring alone.You could still shoot a grenade. You just would not be able to regulate how far it would shoot.Grenade launchers are illegal just to own in CA. If it was that easy the distributors would have done that.All of the CA legal ones I saw had the launcher and threads removed. Removing the threads would not allow the launcher to be reinstalled ,making it PC and a CYA for them. Instead of asking us, why don't you just email the CA DOJ and ask them?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.htm
DOJ Firearms Division
Senate Bill 23 Assault Weapon Characteristics
Effective January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23, Statutes of 1999, establishes new criteria for defining assault weapons based on generic characteristics. This bill allows and requires persons who own/possess firearms that fall under the new "assault weapon" definition to register those firearms with the Department of Justice during the one-year period between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Effective January 1, 2000, this bill adds Penal Code Section 12276.1 to the Penal Code as follows.

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

(b) "Assault weapon" does not include any antique firearm.

(c) The following definitions shall apply under this section:
(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.
(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

(d) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.

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  #26  
Old 02-26-2005, 2:18 PM
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In both listings for MAS at that web sight, they state "complete with grenade launching device" I didn't think the 49 had that feature, just the 49/56? ANy thoughts?
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Old 02-26-2005, 1:42 PM
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MAS 49 does not have the GL.

Here is one for $495, its a Syrian contract.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/P...s/msr_0050.JPG

These guys have Hakims, AG42bs, MAS 49 and FN 49. Goto the bottom of the page.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/R...0Military%20SA
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Old 02-25-2005, 9:51 PM
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Muzzle devices on many military rifles are designed to serve the secondary purpose of launching rifle grenades. The rear cavity of Western rifle grenades is 22 mm in diameter.


For some reason, the bird cage flash suppressor on the AR15/M16 isn't considered a grenade launcher by CA DOJ. Is it because only a certain percentage of the muzzle device profile serves as a bearing surface for a rifle grenade? Is it because it needs a special spring to retain a rifle grenade on the barrel?

Or is it only applicable to rifles with integral grenade sights?
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2005, 3:27 PM
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The Mas 49/56 I am looking at has indeed the launcher, Bayo hub, and muzzle device, now with a removable 10 rounds I can have no other evil feature? correct?
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2005, 12:34 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SKSKen:
So with a removable 10 round clip, it would appear to have a muzzle brake, launcher(that I can remove) how about the bayo lug? then its legal? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't use that word, its magazine.
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