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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2009, 11:15 PM
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Default stock saiga 7.62x39+tapco t6 stock and pistol grip+tapco handguard+maglock=legal???

this are the only mods i would like to do with my saiga and would surely like to know if iam compliant. ive searched a lot of threads and it wont give me a sure definitive answer. as everybody else, no one would like to be in trouble. thanks guys.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:18 PM
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refer to this link.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=192202

I do not know the rules of being 922r compliant but you need a certain amount of USA parts on it to be compliant also. Someone more knowledgable will chime in
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:20 PM
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i believe you would have to meet 922r compliance through use of domestic parts on there and not having a certain amount of imported parts
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:23 PM
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i wont me moving any trigger since the tapco t6 will fit just by removing the stock. so it is not a conversion right?
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
i wont me moving any trigger since the tapco t6 will fit just by removing the stock. so it is not a conversion right?
refer to this

http://www.thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/Bu...rifyCompliance

you are changing foreign parts in exchange with domestic USA parts. You need to meet 922r compliance.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
i wont me moving any trigger since the tapco t6 will fit just by removing the stock. so it is not a conversion right?
Pistol grip is non-sporter. If the rifle is no longer in sporter form, it has to meet 922r. That's federal, not just CA. Once, you've met 922r, a mag lock is all you need, as long as the rifle is ATF compliant, for CA.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:41 AM
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wow. all these laws. need to do more research. new to rifleworld. any experiences from a saiga owner? suggestions?
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:46 AM
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The site says that having the rifle accept AK mags might not trigger 922r??? More info on this not to thread jack?
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Old 06-23-2009, 1:42 AM
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The site says that having the rifle accept AK mags might not trigger 922r??? More info on this not to thread jack?
AK mags are ok, but they must be no more than 10 rounds.
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Old 06-23-2009, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
this are the only mods i would like to do with my saiga and would surely like to know if iam compliant. ive searched a lot of threads and it wont give me a sure definitive answer. as everybody else, no one would like to be in trouble. thanks guys.
No this is not compliant, an O.E. Saiga 7.62X39 has 14 parts that apply towards 922r. Parts only apply if they replace a foreign componet. The stock and handguard count. The pistol grip does not. A Saiga 7.62 is not imported with a pistol grip, therefore the grip will NOT count.

I would highly recommend doing a "back end" or trigger group mod. The Tapco G2 (3 parts) and tapco AK stock(1 part) will bring the count to 10. 922r says if modifications take the firearm into a configuration that CANNOT BE IMPORTED (pistol grip, high cap mag I.E. non-sporting) than there cannot be more than 10 foreign parts. You can only count parts that are directly replaced by USA componets. I would advise against using your mags as 922r compliance parts. That limits your mag selection, and only that 1 mag can be used.

My conversions are trigger groups(3), stocks (1), and mag followers (1), and a couple rifles have gas pistons(1).
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Last edited by SJgunguy24; 06-23-2009 at 4:50 AM..
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Old 06-23-2009, 8:01 AM
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Research a bit more and you may come to the same conclusion as me: if you want to mod your Saiga at all, it's really worth it to do the full AK conversion. You'll greatly improve the appearance and ergonomics. There are plenty of AK folding stock options out there and you will reduce the length of your rifle by about 3" vs. using a Saiga folding stock.
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Old 06-23-2009, 9:29 AM
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so, ak conversion is the way to go? as much as possible i would not like to do any trigger movement , i dont think im mechanically inclined to do it. any more suggestion as far as adding u.s. parts to be in compliance?
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Old 06-23-2009, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
so, ak conversion is the way to go? as much as possible i would not like to do any trigger movement , i dont think im mechanically inclined to do it. any more suggestion as far as adding u.s. parts to be in compliance?
Full conversion is a good investment on a Saiga. Otherwise, you can review the 922r compliance part list and replace components with US made parts those you can do easily without the full conversion, ie. piston, handguard, magazine (3 counts by itself).
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:49 AM
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anybody did this , without the full conversion? thanks. advice pls.
i have to had 10 US parts right?
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:27 PM
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you can get some other ideas here...

http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/h...onversion.html
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:38 PM
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I've done it to my 7.62 Saiga and love it. Its like a whole new rifle. I added the JTE performance main springs and now double tapping is sweet less than 3 lbs trigger pull. The whole process took me about 3 hrs, I wanted to do the work right and I polish the bolt carrier and underside plus the trigger. Take Sjgunguy2 word, he knows what he's talking about. I recently purchased some more goodies from Greg at Carolinashooterssupply.com great guy and he ships fast. As for the drilling just makesure you have good drill bits. I used Cobalt bits and was able to drill through the receiver and spot welds like butter
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90401


Here's the list of what you will need.
Dinzagarms Trigger group. Yes, there are cheaper ones available but you will need to dremel the hammer which is a PITA! and time consuming.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html

Pistol Grip and Stock
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....GA-AK47/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....P-SCREW/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....ACEMENT/Detail

Plugs for rear axis hole
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....e-plugs/Detail

Optional:
JTE Main Spring
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....nspring/Detail

link to step by step instructions.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkdad View Post
you can get some other ideas here...

http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/h...onversion.html
thats alot of reading bro. can we do this? lol.
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Old 06-23-2009, 1:16 PM
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thats alot of reading bro. can we do this? lol.
bring some beer... everything is possible!
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Old 06-23-2009, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacGlass View Post
I've done it to my 7.62 Saiga and love it. Its like a whole new rifle. I added the JTE performance main springs and now double tapping is sweet less than 3 lbs trigger pull. The whole process took me about 3 hrs, I wanted to do the work right and I polish the bolt carrier and underside plus the trigger. Take Sjgunguy2 word, he knows what he's talking about. I recently purchased some more goodies from Greg at Carolinashooterssupply.com great guy and he ships fast. As for the drilling just makesure you have good drill bits. I used Cobalt bits and was able to drill through the receiver and spot welds like butter
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90401


Here's the list of what you will need.
Dinzagarms Trigger group. Yes, there are cheaper ones available but you will need to dremel the hammer which is a PITA! and time consuming.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html

Pistol Grip and Stock
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....GA-AK47/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....P-SCREW/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....ACEMENT/Detail

Plugs for rear axis hole
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....e-plugs/Detail

Optional:
JTE Main Spring
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....nspring/Detail

link to step by step instructions.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm

there you go!
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Old 06-23-2009, 1:53 PM
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thats alot of reading bro. can we do this? lol.
I guess you dont like reading You needed to be inform why and what makes the conversion legal. You gotta either do more research or if not take
it over to PRK Arms in Fresno.


http://www.prkarms.org/

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=PRK+Arms
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Old 06-23-2009, 1:59 PM
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i just dont want to drill into the receiver , i might mess up the rifle. i want to look for bolt-on parts only if its possible.
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Old 06-23-2009, 2:18 PM
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i just dont want to drill into the receiver , i might mess up the rifle. i want to look for bolt-on parts only if its possible.
And everyone has taken the time to explain it will not meet 922R, what else do you dont understand?
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Old 06-23-2009, 2:29 PM
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And everyone has taken the time to explain it will not meet 922R, what else do you dont understand?
still considering if anybody out there had done this with just bolt-on additions. or any idea whatsover. if not i have to do the full conversion.
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Old 06-23-2009, 2:35 PM
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still considering if anybody out there had done this with just bolt-on additions. or any idea whatsover. if not i have to do the full conversion.
They have and they are illegal, I pitty the fools willing to risk jail time over a modification of a rifle. Many CG has told you in good advice, IT IS NOT LEGAL
in CALIFORNIA AND BY BATFE. You either have to spend another $600 and let PRK do the conversion for you and/or spend some time researching and crafting a new machining skill set. Or I hate to tell ya, but you bought the wrong rifle without doing research.
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Old 06-23-2009, 2:43 PM
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They have and they are illegal, I pitty the fools willing to risk jail time over a modification of a rifle. Many CG has told you in good advice, IT IS NOT LEGAL
in CALIFORNIA AND BY BATFE. You either have to spend another $600 and let PRK do the conversion for you and/or spend some time researching and crafting a new machining skill set. Or I hate to tell ya, but you bought the wrong rifle without doing research.
how much you spent for the whole conversion? what is the level of difficulty 1-10 , 1-being the lowest? appreciate your advice. i did research but iam getting a lot of mixed answers . too many answers got me confused. just want to have a legal nice rifle. just like everybody else.not considering jailtime!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
how much you spent for the whole conversion? what is the level of difficulty 1-10 , 1-being the lowest? appreciate your advice. i did research but iam getting a lot of mixed answers . too many answers got me confused. just want to have a legal nice rifle. just like everybody else.not considering jailtime!!
For the basic conversion I listed out under $125. Level of difficulty 4 out of 10. I read most of the same threads and I didnt see any mixed messages. If you take Sjgunguy24 advice you will have a legal Saiga 7.62 converted rifle.

After the conversion you will need to add on a Bullet Button Cover make it Calif Complainant. Here's the one I used.
http://www.parallaxtactical.com/stor...roducts_id=190
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Old 06-23-2009, 3:17 PM
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thank you. appreciate everything.
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
how much you spent for the whole conversion? what is the level of difficulty 1-10 , 1-being the lowest? appreciate your advice. i did research but iam getting a lot of mixed answers . too many answers got me confused. just want to have a legal nice rifle. just like everybody else.not considering jailtime!!
The conversion costs: Tapco G2 FCG 27-35$
Tapco AK stock 27-35$
Dinzag bullet guide 30$
Thats about as cheap as you can get. If dont feel OK with drilling a couple of spot welds and grinding a couple of rivits. I've done a few Saiga conversions and can knock it out in 2 hrs. It's easy. If you need help PM me and i'll keep you out of prison. I did one for a kid because he did exactly what you are posting about........Manufacturing an assualt weapon(I hate that effn' word BTW)


The answers are here at Calguns.net. Do with it as you will, but please don't break the law! I have put in hours trying to help spread the word about OLL's (as with many others here) If you wanna keep your tail out of the slammer you should follow the advise we are trying to give you. If you want to get the most out of that Saiga you should do the conversion,IMO.


This is one of mine. I took this to the gunshow (san jose) and I can't tell you how many people told me "you can't have AK's in California".
Well......i'm in California.......and it's an AK

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Old 06-24-2009, 12:27 AM
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^^^that looks pretty cool! any more pics of that "Bad Boy"?
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:54 AM
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alain209 - Dinzag also makes triggers (FCG) for unconverted Saigas. They count as (2) U.S. parts vs. (3) for a converted gun. Change that and a U.S. made gas puck and you will be 922r compliant.

However, if you're gonna have to deal with a maglock, you might as well convert it all the way. I did it for my S12, which has to have a maglock anyway sporter or not. It wasn't too bad. You're only drilling out the rivet heads on the back of the receiver to push out those pins. If you get the Tromix DIY trigger guard, you won't need to cut a PG hole also. However, the tricky part is putting it back together with the BHO lever and spring. There are many online tutorials on that.

Otherwise, leave it in the sporter configuration and keep the mag release. Thats the way I went with my S308.


Last edited by vintagedude88; 06-24-2009 at 2:37 PM..
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Old 06-24-2009, 2:24 PM
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my saiga came . just drosd. maybe i will shoot couple hundred rounds first and decide whether to convert or not.
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Old 06-24-2009, 9:17 PM
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my saiga came . just drosd. maybe i will shoot couple hundred rounds first and decide whether to convert or not.
now the 10 day waiting period...
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Old 06-25-2009, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by alain209 View Post
my saiga came . just drosd. maybe i will shoot couple hundred rounds first and decide whether to convert or not.
If you're not sure, it's better to hold off until you're ready. Last night I just finish my 2nd upgrade.

It went from this:

To this:
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Old 06-25-2009, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacGlass View Post
I've done it to my 7.62 Saiga and love it. Its like a whole new rifle. I added the JTE performance main springs and now double tapping is sweet less than 3 lbs trigger pull. The whole process took me about 3 hrs, I wanted to do the work right and I polish the bolt carrier and underside plus the trigger. Take Sjgunguy2 word, he knows what he's talking about. I recently purchased some more goodies from Greg at Carolinashooterssupply.com great guy and he ships fast. As for the drilling just makesure you have good drill bits. I used Cobalt bits and was able to drill through the receiver and spot welds like butter
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90401


Here's the list of what you will need.
Dinzagarms Trigger group. Yes, there are cheaper ones available but you will need to dremel the hammer which is a PITA! and time consuming.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html

Pistol Grip and Stock
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....GA-AK47/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....P-SCREW/Detail
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....ACEMENT/Detail

Plugs for rear axis hole
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....e-plugs/Detail

Optional:
JTE Main Spring
http://store.carolinashooterssupply....nspring/Detail

link to step by step instructions.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm
Now I can get some plugs for mine!
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2009, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacGlass View Post
If you're not sure, it's better to hold off until you're ready. Last night I just finish my 2nd upgrade.

It went from this:

To this:
VERY NICE DOING ALOT OF RESEARCH , GETTING SLEEPY AT WORK. BUT I HAVE TO WORK TO HAVE SOME MONEY FOR THE PIT. THANKS ISAACGLASS.
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Old 06-25-2009, 9:52 PM
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now its clear to me after all the question/answer/research. out of the box saiga has 14 imported parts . 922r plays , i used the checklist . if i change the trigger set 3 points + buttstock + magazine. then i am compliant yehey.
correct me if im wrong but im certain im right . but dont forget the maglock.
thank you everyone.
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Old 06-25-2009, 9:59 PM
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ON a stock, unmodified Saiga you can only replace two of the three FCG parts because no one makes a US Saiga trigger yet. It's the only specialized part in the FCG. The other two are a modified Tapco hammer and disconnector.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:23 PM
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You might want to go for this Trigger Group, it will saved you lots of time dremeling time.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply....R-TAPCO/Detail
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Old 06-26-2009, 5:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacGlass View Post
You might want to go for this Trigger Group, it will saved you lots of time dremeling time.

http://store.carolinashooterssupply....R-TAPCO/Detail
What advantage does this trigger provide? If you ditch the BHO then a standard Tapco G2 single hook should fit with no issues.

Another option, Red Star adjustable trigger:
http://www.redstararms.com/index.htm?488.htm&1
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:59 PM
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For $20 more than the Tapco single hook trigger, it comes with a axis pin clip, its pre-polish and will probably saved the newbie installer 30-45mins of grinding with a dremel. As the OP said, he has no machining skill whatsoever. Besides, the Bolt Holder Open comes in handy at the range when the range marshall inspects the rifle during cease fire. To me that is worth the extra $20 if I were to build another.
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