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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-10-2005, 2:49 PM
Drjones Drjones is offline
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Hi all.

First time posting here.

I want a CA-legal AR.

I'd prefer to have a CA Bushmaster, but their prices are pretty steep; around $1600 for a complete rifle, and that's not including tax, DROS, shipping, etc.

Obviously I can put a Bushmaster (or whatever other brand) upper on a FAB-10 and have a complete rifle for $1000 or less.

How does the FAB-10 compare to a real Bushmaster reciever?

I have read a bit about it and it seems to be a good product, so I guess I'd not gain a whole lot by paying all the extra money for a "real" Bushie.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2005, 2:49 PM
Drjones Drjones is offline
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Hi all.

First time posting here.

I want a CA-legal AR.

I'd prefer to have a CA Bushmaster, but their prices are pretty steep; around $1600 for a complete rifle, and that's not including tax, DROS, shipping, etc.

Obviously I can put a Bushmaster (or whatever other brand) upper on a FAB-10 and have a complete rifle for $1000 or less.

How does the FAB-10 compare to a real Bushmaster reciever?

I have read a bit about it and it seems to be a good product, so I guess I'd not gain a whole lot by paying all the extra money for a "real" Bushie.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
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  #3  
Old 04-10-2005, 3:19 PM
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What is a "CA Bushmaster"? Any link to more info about that model?
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2005, 3:58 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Technical Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inoxmark:
What is a "CA Bushmaster"? Any link to more info about that model? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Been away for awhile?
http://www.californiabushmaster.com/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yep, that's it!
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  #5  
Old 04-10-2005, 4:58 PM
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Personally I don't think paying an extra $600 for a CA bushmaster versus a Fab10 is worth it. I'd buy the fab10 lower and if you really want a bushmaster upper, buy it seperately. Will be cheaper than a complete CA BM rifle.

I applaud BM for creating their own CA BM rifle, but I don't know how they justify an extra $800 to not mill out their mag well, because basically that is the only difference from their regular rifles and the CA compliant ones.
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  #6  
Old 04-10-2005, 5:28 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have read a bit about it and it seems to be a good product, so I guess I'd not gain a whole lot by paying all the extra money for a "real" Bushie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is not a real Bushie, but a neutered one; just like the FAB-10. I spoke with the salesman from GB at the Cow Palace Show and he gave me a lot of hype (patent pending blah, blah, blah, it is sooo much better). I ended up with a FAB-10 which I bought at the show and put an Armalite upper on it. It was a good, tight fit and for the money I saved I can buy another upper (which will probably be a Beowulf .50). Bottom line is that the FAB-10 is overpriced and GB Sales Bushies are highway robbery and they will shoot the same. At least the mag, if it takes a dump can be relatively easily replaced and the mags are available. If the feeding in the GB Bushie is lousy, you will probably have to send the rifle back to GB.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I applaud BM for creating their own CA BM rifle, but I don't know how they justify an extra $800 to not mill out their mag well, because basically that is the only difference from their regular rifles and the CA compliant ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it is Bushmaster that came up with it, but rather an opportunistic company GB Sales.
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Old 04-10-2005, 6:51 PM
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Bushmaster did not come up with this 'concept', GB Sales did. Any patent they might come up with would be trivial and would probably just hinge on some tweak to make it Calif compliant. (You can patent a ham sandwich if you do it right.)

The FAB10 has acquired a reasonably decent reputation. Operationally speaking, I have heard no problems with it.

What many newbies don't realize is that the lower receiver on an AR is relatively noncritical - as long as certain key holes are drilled in proper relation to each other, the lower will be fine. [The only lowers I've really heard anything about being troublesome were some cast preban Olympic lowers/rifles rushed out before the 94 ban.]

The only thing I'd be concerned about in any Californicated AR is mag follower/lips/spring quality. Aftermarket non-USGI mags have always been a problem in ARs and, besides poor lubrication or lousy handloaded ammo, can be amongst the top causes of AR malfunctions. I have not heard of any FAB10 problems relating to failure-to-feed, fail to extract, (misnamed a "double feed"), or fail to eject when quality uppers are used with FAB10 lower, so they may have this whipped.

Bill Wiese
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  #8  
Old 04-10-2005, 9:19 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to GB sales website they do not use mags, but built the spring and follower into the mag body (so they say).
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Old 04-10-2005, 10:40 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe they used an insert specifically manufactured for them. Still and all, it had to have specific dimensions taken from a detachable magazine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That seems to be how they did it or whoever wrote the stuff on their website had no clue. Still, on the Fab-10 you just need to drill out one pop-rivet and take out one set-screw; the mags are available at Ar15plus.com, if I remember correctly, replace the mag, pop-rivet and tighten the set-screw.
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Old 04-11-2005, 8:59 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unlike the original FAB10 design, the current manufacture FAB10's now incorporate a bolt catch. The bolt catch acts as a secondary means of retention. You still have to remove the bolt catch roll pin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forgot about that one; I stand corrected.
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Old 04-11-2005, 4:39 PM
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Theres this website I found about CA legal recievers. This company offers the (I believe) the Fab-10 lower with the option to make it look like a 30 rounder is attached. The cost is 945 (I'm not sure whether with the dummy mag or without). If you wish to check it out. Here it is.

http://faxworldcom.com/lgweap/ad_sheets/16hbar.htm
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2005, 2:48 PM
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do you still have to crack open the reciever to reload the thing?
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Old 04-12-2005, 2:52 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Theres this website I found about CA legal recievers. This company offers the (I believe) the Fab-10 lower with the option to make it look like a 30 rounder is attached. The cost is 945 (I'm not sure whether with the dummy mag or without). If you wish to check it out. Here it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can built it yourself for that kind of a price with top quality parts like Armalite or Bushmaster. They are kind of proud of their stripped Fab-10 lower - $345?!
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Old 04-13-2005, 7:18 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by juicy:
do you still have to crack open the reciever to reload the thing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Without a doubt. There is no other real way to do it and be CA legal at the same time.

Turby
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