Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:01 AM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default Single Action Vs. Double Action

Other than the obvious whats the real pros and cons between the two,
would you use a Single action as a HD gun? Etc. etc.
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:04 AM
aplinker's Avatar
aplinker aplinker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West LA
Posts: 16,822
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

Single action is fine for hunting and range guns, but once the double action revolver was invented, no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes. I certainly wouldn't choose one.
__________________

Google Map of OLL Dealers

List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers
Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me
This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:45 AM
Miltiades's Avatar
Miltiades Miltiades is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,131
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default Revolvers or semiautos?

Are you speaking of revolvers or semiautos in your question? Single action semiautos include 1911s, Browning Hi Powers and a few others which are kept ready to fire in cocked condition with the safety applied. They are very fast to bring into use and fire repeated shots with.

If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:51 AM
r08ert209cali's Avatar
r08ert209cali r08ert209cali is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lathrop Area
Posts: 1,553
iTrader: 27 / 97%
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
Are you speaking of revolvers or semiautos in your question? Single action semiautos include 1911s, Browning Hi Powers and a few others which are kept ready to fire in cocked condition with the safety applied. They are very fast to bring into use and fire repeated shots with.

If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.
+1 Cocked and locked
__________________

I dunno, I've never been much for guns. I mean, sure, we have the usual gun by the door, another near the TV, one in the kitchen, and another in the bedroom...and several others laying around. For the most part though, we keep our home free of guns. We are peace loving folks.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:52 AM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,396
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Also to add, if regarding semi-auto pistols; double action on a pistol allows for double strike capability, whereas on a single action pistol would require tap-rack-bang/access.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-26-2009, 9:58 AM
hkusp9c's Avatar
hkusp9c hkusp9c is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Alcatraz
Posts: 693
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

get a DA/SA gun if you can't choose
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:12 AM
cineski's Avatar
cineski cineski is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,064
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

IMO, after improving my thoughts on this through experience, the best home defense platform is DA, no safety, with a constant pull. SAO is a very nice trigger for hunting and target shooting, as it allows for more microscopic accuracy. That's not saying DA is not an accurate platform, but it is less accurate than SA due to the greater trigger movement. The problem with SA is the external safety. In a time of high stress, little to medium practice with SAO triggers could result in your early demise. With my 1911, I constantly forget to flip the safety off when I'm at the range. I see lots of videos of people at the range with a 1911 that forget to flip the safety. That's all fine for range ues, but a SAO platform should be something you either leave to range use or you DEDICATE yourself to (which means you flip the safety off of every gun you draw). This is the reason I like the XD series of guns with their grip safety and short, crisp triggers. The grip safety may be a semi-placebo, but I like having it there. Even my HK45, which is in DA/SA mode is less favorable as a home defense gun due to the change in trigger (I'm currently trying to figure out converting it to LEM).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

To clarify, I was speaking about revolvers, I own some DA/SA Semi autos, and Some SA, and a Glock, so no coked and locked lol but I dont really have any experience with SA revolvers.
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:20 AM
cineski's Avatar
cineski cineski is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,064
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Sorry about that ;-). I guess my stance stays the same for revolvers. Why bring any additional action of a home defense gun like having to cock it?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:21 AM
cineski's Avatar
cineski cineski is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,064
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Sorry about that ;-). I guess my stance stays the same for revolvers. Why bring any additional action of a home defense gun like having to cock it?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:29 AM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,796
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes
Ahem.





Yeah, daily CCW in AZ. Fanny pack. Complete with a peace sign on it as "Democrat camo". Plus that's where I keep my "piece" .
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:19 AM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,199
iTrader: 138 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Other than the obvious whats the real pros and cons between the two,
would you use a Single action as a HD gun? Etc. etc.
Well, most DA revolvers can also do SA. So why limit yourself to SA in the first place? Also, you have a few semiautos to choose from for HD, anyway. Don't let eccentric revolver nuts like Jim march, the ones with decades of practice, sway you

Oh, hi, Jim, didn't know you were here
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:29 AM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,796
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Hey, I can do one accurate shot per second with that thing, firing ammo that spanks the 40S&W in raw horsepower .

Reloads...yeah...I'm working on that .
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:31 AM
ZOMBIEHUNTER's Avatar
ZOMBIEHUNTER ZOMBIEHUNTER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Nevada from Vallejo
Posts: 406
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I wouldnt feel out gunned with a SA revolver I shoot mine very well and for home defense i would be okay.If we were talking about a gun fight no i would not want a SA actually i would rather not use a handgun at all for that.
__________________
Jon
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-26-2009, 1:53 PM
22popnsplat's Avatar
22popnsplat 22popnsplat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,045
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

anyone who is proficient with a single action revolver will be a formidable apponant . The real downfall of the single action is the reload time required . For several years a single action revolver in 45 colt was my home defense weapon and I felt it was pretty good .
I belive a single action revolver is still the fastest to clear leather and hit a target , just look up Bob Munden
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-26-2009, 4:28 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-26-2009, 4:44 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,787
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Actually I'd feel quite at home with an SA revolver for carry self-defense.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than that I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I usu shoot DA revolvers in SA mode anyway.
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-26-2009, 4:45 PM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,796
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Besides..."style points" matter too, right?

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-26-2009, 4:59 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Actually I'd feel quite at home with an SA revolver for carry self-defense.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than that I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I usu shoot DA revolvers in SA mode anyway.
Yeah , I never thought about that, I usually shoot DA in SA anyways,
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:00 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JimMarch View Post
Besides..."style points" matter too, right?

Haha, only if you have the leather holster and a black hat, but you deffanatley need ***-less chaps
lol
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:00 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Does anyone, have any links to a Brand new Black hawk, or the vaquero, I cant find anything for sale that is new?
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:01 PM
Miltiades's Avatar
Miltiades Miltiades is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,131
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default I have one of those...

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
If I get a Ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, what's its use, I know that is about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question.
I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:03 PM
Mr. Beretta Mr. Beretta is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,753
iTrader: 183 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Single action is fine for hunting and range guns, but once the double action revolver was invented, no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes. I certainly wouldn't choose one.
Beg your pardon. Marshall Sam McCloud (Dennis Weaver) did in the early 70's in New York city!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:04 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

Is that the 6.5 inch barrel?

So it is true that you can get the 9MM cylinder to use in right?
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:04 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Beretta View Post
Beg your pardon. Marshall Sam McCloud (Dennis Weaver) did in the early 70's in New York city!
Im young I have no idea who that is lol
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:06 PM
johnny_22's Avatar
johnny_22 johnny_22 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Valley of Heart's Delight
Posts: 2,178
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question

Love my Ruger .357/.38 with 9 mm cylinder. Maximum flexibility with ammo and fun to shoot.

I would suggest Gunbroker.com since they always show up when I am looking for a DA 9mm revolver.
__________________
Please, join the NRA.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:10 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,199
iTrader: 138 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question
You can shoot it in cowboy action shooting. You can use it to tell your grandkids how you used it in US-Mexican wars. Public indoctrination system being what it is, they probably won't catch on to that being a century out of date
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:12 PM
22popnsplat's Avatar
22popnsplat 22popnsplat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,045
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

that is One fine looking 3 screw
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:13 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_22 View Post
Love my Ruger .357/.38 with 9 mm cylinder. Maximum flexibility with ammo and fun to shoot.

I would suggest Gunbroker.com since they always show up when I am looking for a DA 9mm revolver.
Ok ill check that out,

If you dont mind how much did your 9MM cylinder run you? or what do they go for now?
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:13 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,199
iTrader: 138 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Yeah , I never thought about that, I usually shoot DA in SA anyways,
Then your DA revolver needs a trigger job, or your hand needs a workout (in the gym, don't get any ideas), or both
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:14 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
You can shoot it in cowboy action shooting. You can use it to tell your grandkids how you used it in US-Mexican wars. Public indoctrination system being what it is, they probably won't catch on to that being a century out of date
Haha, yeah I know right, but my Kids/grand kids are going to be going to strict christian boarding schools in South dakota. lol
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:15 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
Then your DA revolver needs a trigger job, or your hand needs a workout (in the gym, don't get any ideas), or both
No its cool, I just always cock it back (the revolver nick, dont get any ideas ) lol I just have a habit of shooting it that way idk lol
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:42 PM
Kokopelli's Avatar
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "the drop edge of yonder"
Posts: 1,589
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Anyone can be a "fan" of single action revolvers.

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-26-2009, 5:49 PM
Futurecollector's Avatar
Futurecollector Futurecollector is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: So cal
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Anyone can be a "fan" of single action revolvers.

Thats not you right?

Please tell me its not!!!! please lol
__________________
None of my posts are serious or real, nothing I post is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-26-2009, 6:12 PM
hawk1547's Avatar
hawk1547 hawk1547 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: So Cal and Arizona
Posts: 430
iTrader: 53 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Does anyone, have any links to a Brand new Black hawk, or the vaquero, I cant find anything for sale that is new?
New Black hawk,or Vaquero,here is a link:http://www.ruger.com
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-26-2009, 6:22 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,199
iTrader: 138 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Haha, yeah I know right, but my Kids/grand kids are going to be going to strict christian boarding schools in South dakota. lol
Fine, you can tell them Moses used this SA revolver to part the Red Sea with a single shot
__________________
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJgunguy24 View Post
Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


WTB: Saiga .223 bolt; HK G3 bolt; Chinese AK pistol grips; milled AK cut receiver pieces and stubs.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-26-2009, 6:38 PM
RogueSniper's Avatar
RogueSniper RogueSniper is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Just South of SFO
Posts: 3,286
iTrader: 103 / 100%
Default

SA revolver are accurate and fun. The trigger on mine is sweet and has a nice release. I would rather have my SA revolver with me on a hunting trip than a Semiauto.

Remember playing Cowboys/girls or gunslingers when we were kids? That's what really got me wanting a SA revolver. After getting one and playing around with it, then reality set in - reloading that sucker! S - L - O - W !!!

- Swing out the loading gate
- Rotate the cylinder
- Align the cylinder to the rod
- Push the rod
- Eject the empty case
- Load round
- Rotate cylinder
- Repeat five more times!!!

I wouldn't give it up, though. It rounds out my collection. Now I'm hunting around for a Schofield (modern) in 45LC. It takes the pain out of reloading!
__________________

"You know the real difference between you and me?"
"Yeah. Denial."

Toys I'm looking for (PPT/used): Thompson Contender receiver and barrels
Cashback sites:
Huntin Obessesion / Active Junky / Dvor / Ebates
Stuff for sale:
WTS P80 Spectre, Crimson Trace (P228/P229) Formica Sample Case
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-26-2009, 6:47 PM
scc1909 scc1909 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 275
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.
I have a slightly different perspective, based on packing a DA/SA S&W .38 Police Special Revolver on and off for 15 years while on flight duty with the USAF. During annual qualification training the instructors used to have us prove to ourselves how much more controlled and accurate is SA vs DA. The lesson? Even the best DA pistol introduces a lot of monkey motion while pulling the trigger. In contrast, firing SA was like pulling the trigger on a bolt-action rifle.

YMMV...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-26-2009, 7:36 PM
1JimMarch 1JimMarch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,796
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

SAs have some advantages. On average their accuracy is higher, as the cylinder is fixed in place rather than swinging in and out on a crane. The way they soak up recoil and their overall ergonomics are superb, designed literally in the Victorian era by people who had a far better feel for hand tools than modern engineers running CAD/CAM systems.

For those interested in buying an SA:

One of the FIRST choices you need to consciously make is, "do I want a gun with a modern internal safety or not?".

ALL Rugers post-1973 (also known as "two screw" or "New Model") come standard with a transfer bar safety. That means if the trigger isn't pulled fully deliberately back, they ain't gonna go bang no matter if they're dropped or even slammed right on the hammer.

Pre-'73 Rugers like the "three-screw" 357 pictured originally didn't have safeties. That means that like a real 1873 Colt, if you drop it fully loaded it might go off. Slam the hammer on something (or drop it ON the hammer) and it WILL go boom. So you carry those "five up" - load one, skip one, load four, bring it to full cock, decock it, you have the hammer resting on the empty chamber.

That's how Wyatt Earp and all those guys back then carried, if they had half a brain. If they knew they were headed into trouble, they MIGHT load the 6th round.

Ruger offers a free retro-fit program to turn pre-'73 guns into transfer-bar-equipped specimens. Some feel it slightly screws up the trigger feel and deliberately don't do that. No problem, as long as you understand what you've got.

Uberti, USFA, Colt, Charles Daly, Pietta, Armi San Marco, Armi Chiappa and others still make "no safety, carry 'em five beans in the wheel" true clones of the 1873 Colt.

Ruger doesn't.

Beretta bought Uberti (the best of the Italian SAA makers) not that long ago, and had them build Beretta-branded variants with Ruger-style transfer bars. The quality on both Beretta and Uberti SAs isn't half bad; cosmetically they often beat Ruger, but when you get into high round counts or a gun you want to trust your butt to, Ruger makes the better gun.

Taurus' "Gaucho" is also a transfer-bar-equipped SA, but with horrible quality control problems. Avoid at all cost.

The highest quality SA guns made are by Freedom Arms. It is impossible to overstate how cool these are...for prices starting at around a grand USED. Each cylinder is cut to the exact frame it will ship with, eliminating mis-matches between the cylinder bores and the barrel. Average out of the box accuracy ranges from good to shocking, with some specimens documented as being able to exceed MOA - meaning groups of less than 1" at 100 *yards*. Consistently. Both the large-frame ('83) and mid-frame ('97) have internal safeties but ONLY the '97's true transfer bar should be trusted for fully-loaded carry.

Ok. Let's talk Rugers.

Originally (meaning pre-1973) Rugers came in three basic frame sizes: small ("Single Six") in .22/.22Magnum, mid-frame (357 and sometimes 357/9mm convertable) and large (.44Mag, also known as the SuperBlackhawk). In '73 the mid-frame got dropped...Blackhawks (adjustable sights) and then Vaqueros (fixed sights) were all built on an oversize 44Magnum-class frame, even if they were 357s (or 357/9mm convertable). This led to massively tough guns. In 45LC, which is supposed to be a low-pressure cartridge, people started realizing you could hot-rod it PAST the 44Magnum in these big guns, leading to factory ammo labeled "45LC+P" and "Ruger ONLY!!!".

In 2004 Ruger re-introduced the mid-frame size, in the "New Vaquero". This smaller gun was similar to the pre-1973 Blackhawks in overall size/heft, but with fixed sights they were a very close "size and heft clone" of the Colt SAA and a lot got snapped up for Cowboy Action shooting. As a 357 they're still tough as nails, with a cylinder beefier than an S&W 686 or Ruger's GP100. In 45LC the cylinder walls are too thin to take the "Ruger ONLY!!!" wild-child loads and you'll see warnings to that effect on the websites for high-performance ammo houses like Buffalo Bore.

My gun is a heavily modified New Vaquero 357. "Blue" variants originally had the "fake color case" finish on the primary frame; Ruger has now thankfully abandoned that cheesy mess and gone to a tasteful all-blue.

These new-release mid-frames are on average some of the best guns Ruger has ever built. They took the opportunity to change how they build the guns. Large-frame Ruger SA cylinders are drilled all-six-at-once leading to minor variances between cylinder bores, hence pressure and accuracy variations. The mid-frame cylinder bores are drilled in sequence with the same bit/reamer, leading to uniform bores. And since it's easier to check one bit/reamer setup, the uniform bores we're getting are very good. Your odds of getting a "bad monday gun" are lower, your out-of-the-box accuracy is likely to be very good for anything under $1,000, SA or DA or auto.

Ruger has a few other mid-frame variants:

* The New Vaquero now ships with an optional "Bisley" grip frame. More on that below. There's also an engraved "John Wayne Special Edition" NewVaq (sigh) which they didn't DARE desecrate with the fake color-case finish.

* The "Montado" is a short-barreled New Vaquero with a SuperBlackhawk hammer grafted on, a mod I've made to my gun that lowers my hammer reach. There are 357 and 45LC variants.

* There are now two adjustable-sight recent-production mid-frames: the 50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop and a special Lipsey's distributor run of 2,000 44Spls that are otherwise the same as the Anniversary 357.

One of THE best deals in gun-land period is CDNN's closeout of the last 50th 357 Blackhawks for $400 each! HIGHLY recommended. See it in their catalog and call 'em up:

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html

While it doesn't have the 9mm conversion cylinder, it's a better gun overall than the convertible. It's the right size for a 357, and it's better made. Accuracy with the 9mm cylinder is only mediocre anyhow (slightly undersize jacketed bullets).

If on the other hand you really want 44Magnum or higher power levels, I strongly recommend the Ruger SuperBlackhawk "Hunter" variant, esp. the Bisley Hunter. Ruger's "Bisley" grip frame isn't all that similar to the original Colt Bisley, rather it's based more on an old custom gun owned by Elmer Keith called the "#5", but lengthened. Ruger's Bisley grip is well regarded for soaking up big recoil and for some people, just fitting big hands. It's overkill for the NewVaq I think, unless you have big mitts, but it rocks for the 44Mag or higher horsepower levels.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-27-2009, 4:53 AM
Kokopelli's Avatar
Kokopelli Kokopelli is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "the drop edge of yonder"
Posts: 1,589
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurecollector View Post
Thats not you right?

Please tell me its not!!!! please lol
No, that's not me.

However this is me getting interested with SA, back in 1957...

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:56 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.