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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #321  
Old 06-28-2013, 12:43 AM
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Default Profiling

I was driving down the street in my 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme as an LEO speed past me only to get caught at the red light intersection next to me. I leaned forward to put out my cigarette and looked up afterward to see him gleaming down into my car as if I were hiding something, putting out a joint maybe? Sticking a gun behind the stereo maybe? I donít know what he was thinking. I then looked forward at the stoplight as it turned from red to green and slowly pulled off. The LEO suddenly pulled out of right-turn-only lane and came up behind me with his lights flashing. I quickly pulled to the right. He walked up to my window and asked my why he pulled my over. I looked at him baffled and said no officer, I donít. He said yes you do and that he fights his battles in court. I was even more confused and said I donít understand officer. He said you were speeding werenít you. I said that I was not going any faster than the cars passing me up including him. He appeared angered and had is hand on his radio button while covering his badge. He said it again to me ďYou were speeding werenít you! Maybe your tires are oversized or your speedometer isnít workingĒ I nodded once to give him satisfaction but didnít say yes because I was not speeding. I actually wasnít sure because I wasnít checking my speedometer. I drive that street every day and can feel that Iím not doing over 40. He then appeared satisfied that I nodded and then asked me for my driverís license and registration. I was happy to provide it to him because his attitude seemed to reflect that he assumed I didnít have either. He took a quick look and handed them back, then told me to watch my speed. As he walked away, I tuned in with my bionic ears and heard him say to himself ďwhy do they drive those cars?Ē The moral of this story is to try and not look suspicious for any reason. Donít drive old cars with tinted windows or eyeball LEOís, especially after your putting something away. I later bought a Ford Crown Victoria and since had police wave at me as if I were undercover or captain or something. I even got away with speeding. They pulled over the other guy. Itís about profiling... you got to fool them because they can be ignorant as hell.
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  #322  
Old 07-08-2013, 9:01 PM
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what is OLL ?
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  #323  
Old 07-12-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jbeck805 View Post
what is OLL ?
OLL = off list lower

The following will help you with the abbreviations you'll run across on Calguns.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=78606

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  #324  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:11 AM
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is the flow chart accurate for 22lr
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  #325  
Old 10-12-2013, 5:25 PM
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Nevermind...
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  #326  
Old 10-28-2013, 7:50 PM
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is the flow chart accurate for 22lr
flowchart does not apply to rimfire.
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  #327  
Old 11-03-2013, 2:51 PM
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Nevermind...

Last edited by panic911; 11-03-2013 at 4:19 PM..
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  #328  
Old 11-23-2013, 4:04 PM
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great thread, not talking to cops now ha
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  #329  
Old 11-23-2013, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JLC3 View Post
is the flow chart accurate for 22lr
yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinthemagic View Post
flowchart does not apply to rimfire.
yes it does. that is why question #6 asks you if the rifle is chambered in a rimfire cartridge.
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  #330  
Old 11-26-2013, 7:21 PM
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Sorry guys, real new and trying to read as much as I can before I take the jump. What does OLL mean? Thanks
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  #331  
Old 11-26-2013, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ripcurlksm View Post
Also, print out and keep with you the Sacremento Police Memo on OLL's and the bullet button. See my signature #3 link, click the PDF link in the first post and print the pages numbered 96-98.
???
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  #332  
Old 11-26-2013, 7:39 PM
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Sorry guys, real new and trying to read as much as I can before I take the jump. What does OLL mean? Thanks
Off list lower. In other words, not an assault weapon by name/model.
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  #333  
Old 12-01-2013, 4:49 AM
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I think the function of Calguns is half to refute bad info from gunshops and half to refute bad info from DOJ.
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  #334  
Old 12-06-2013, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by scr83jp View Post
One thing I remember from 37 years as a court officer reading miranda warnings 5 days a week is that most cases would never have been solved if the perps had researched miranda and followed "you have the right to remain silent" to the letter.
While I understand that "silence is golden" in many cases, I think there are certain basic questions that you must answer. You can't just always clamp up and take the 5th. Otherwise, you only raise more suspicion from the LEO.

In case of a traffic violation, the most frequently asked question right after the registration and the proof of insurance is "where are you going"...ect...Can EVEN I answer this? Or should I just take the 5th? I got pulled over several times during the course of my 30 years of driving, and I had always told them where I was going. I answered without even thinking about it. I treated it as a regular conversation without giving much thought. Heck...I even let them search my car once while I was in college. I wasn't even aware of the Fifth. Young & Ignorant at best!!!

However, now that I own guns and learn to deal with the responsibilities that come with it, I struggle to come up with a logical set of answers in the case of a pullover while transport firearms to and from the range. Let's say during a traffic stop, the LEO sees a gun case in the back of my truck. His next question would logically be: "Are you carrying firearms?" etc.... These seemingly mundane questions probably carry some kind of risk if you answer them wrongly. But I find it rather hard to believe when some of you in here suggest that I simply just take the fifth.

What I don't quite understand is this: If all your guns are legit, bought at the local gun shops, and DROSED accordingly, and that you are as clean as Snow White, what's the down side if you simly answer the question truthfully? After all if transporting legit firearms is illegal, then they should make that a law. If not, then I don't see much of a down side when you try to be cooperative with the cops to a certain degree. After all, he has a job to do, and if you're making his job tougher than it is, I don't see how he's gonna be gracious to you. Answers such as: "Yes..that's a gun case, and I'm going to/from the shooting range. And yes..those are my firearms locked and unloaded in the case" do not imply that you're breaking the laws at all.

Short of asking to see your firearms and to which I will answer "NO," I fail to see the down side of these questions. I mean, first of all, these are all legit guns, and I didn't do anything illegal. What can a LEO do?


Last but not least, I'm a newbie trying to learn as much as I can about guns and laws. Some of my questions are redundant or "stupid" if you will. But I would rather be redundant here than facing a LEO without knowing what to do or what the appropriate things to say. If you find this question has been asked a gazillion times before and you're not in a mood to answer it again, MOVE ON. No need to jump in and be a DICK. On the other hand, if you're willing to drop by and enlighten me, as always, thanks.

Last edited by Newbieshooter101; 12-06-2013 at 4:26 PM..
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  #335  
Old 12-18-2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Newbieshooter101 View Post
While I understand that "silence is golden" in many cases, I think there are certain basic questions that you must answer. You can't just always clamp up and take the 5th. Otherwise, you only raise more suspicion from the LEO.

In case of a traffic violation, the most frequently asked question right after the registration and the proof of insurance is "where are you going"...ect...Can EVEN I answer this? Or should I just take the 5th? I got pulled over several times during the course of my 30 years of driving, and I had always told them where I was going. I answered without even thinking about it. I treated it as a regular conversation without giving much thought. Heck...I even let them search my car once while I was in college. I wasn't even aware of the Fifth. Young & Ignorant at best!!!

However, now that I own guns and learn to deal with the responsibilities that come with it, I struggle to come up with a logical set of answers in the case of a pullover while transport firearms to and from the range. Let's say during a traffic stop, the LEO sees a gun case in the back of my truck. His next question would logically be: "Are you carrying firearms?" etc.... These seemingly mundane questions probably carry some kind of risk if you answer them wrongly. But I find it rather hard to believe when some of you in here suggest that I simply just take the fifth.

What I don't quite understand is this: If all your guns are legit, bought at the local gun shops, and DROSED accordingly, and that you are as clean as Snow White, what's the down side if you simly answer the question truthfully? After all if transporting legit firearms is illegal, then they should make that a law. If not, then I don't see much of a down side when you try to be cooperative with the cops to a certain degree. After all, he has a job to do, and if you're making his job tougher than it is, I don't see how he's gonna be gracious to you. Answers such as: "Yes..that's a gun case, and I'm going to/from the shooting range. And yes..those are my firearms locked and unloaded in the case" do not imply that you're breaking the laws at all.

Short of asking to see your firearms and to which I will answer "NO," I fail to see the down side of these questions. I mean, first of all, these are all legit guns, and I didn't do anything illegal. What can a LEO do?


Last but not least, I'm a newbie trying to learn as much as I can about guns and laws. Some of my questions are redundant or "stupid" if you will. But I would rather be redundant here than facing a LEO without knowing what to do or what the appropriate things to say. If you find this question has been asked a gazillion times before and you're not in a mood to answer it again, MOVE ON. No need to jump in and be a DICK. On the other hand, if you're willing to drop by and enlighten me, as always, thanks.
I would love to hear about this aswell.
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  #336  
Old 12-18-2013, 3:05 PM
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Default More transporting questions

I have a couple newby questions: (1) I am going to pick up my first OLL for my first AR-15 on Saturday and will be driving across town with it. If I decide to ask the in-store gunsmith to assemble my LPK, And I have brought along my upper to have the smith make sure everything fits together well, do I need to have the lower in a locked case if the upper and lower are separated? I will be purchasing magazines at the store and have them in the car as well.
(2) What advice do you have for taking the completed BB equipped weapon as checked luggage (i.e. should I cut the foam in my pelican to accommodate a 10 round mag in the well, a 10/30, or no mag in the well for least hassle when declaring firearms and presenting to TSA? Or is it wiser to just leave the AR at home? I already have a Remington 870 and a Glock 19 that I take in this case when going to visit the folks in Montana, so I'll be taking firearms regardless. Once I have that foam cut, that's the way I'll be taking it to and from the range back here in CA, too.

thanks!
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  #337  
Old 12-20-2013, 6:34 AM
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IIRC, the transport in a locked container requirement only applies to firearms that can be concealed on the person (e.g. handguns) and RAW's. So longguns don't need to be in a locked container, but they do need to be unloaded. Having a gunlock installed while transporting your longguns may not be required by law, but it certainly is a good idea, IMHO.

For air travel, look up the firearm transportation policies of the airline that you will be flying with. They sometimes have slight differences from the FAA regulations. For example, some airlines won't allow any of your magazines to be loaded, even if they aren't in the firearm. Some may not even allow an empty magazine to be in the firearm. FAA isn't clear on those to issues.
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  #338  
Old 12-20-2013, 5:33 PM
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thanks for the reply, madsend
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  #339  
Old 10-02-2014, 5:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
Off list lower. A generic name for certain California-legal semi-automatic rifles.
Thanks for that definition!
I was wondering myself, too. : )
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  #340  
Old 10-02-2014, 9:26 AM
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Someone said:

"You can't just always clamp up and take the 5th. Otherwise, you only raise more suspicion from the LEO."

You actually can. Never try and outsmart someone. Basic rule in life is STFU. These are things I learned from where I live.
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  #341  
Old 10-31-2014, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jben View Post
Off list lower. In other words, not an assault weapon by name/model.
What's an 'assault weapon'? A rock, a bat, a knife, a firearm? Oh I know it's a BS term made up by the gun grabbers.
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  #342  
Old 05-12-2015, 10:35 AM
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I have a question regarding BBs . They make a "wrench" for the BB, see here at Midway...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/115...release-wrench

If set it up right with your BB, when it is screwed in all the way the mag is locked. If you begin to unscrew it you are starting to disassemble the gun and at a point you can push it in to release the mag. My thought is your using the wrench as a tool to release the mag at that point. You would then insert a new mag and lock it again. Even though you can put the mag in and take it back out you are using the wrench to do so. Technically, even though it is on the rifle it is still a tool. (When it is unscrewed the BB works as normal and what you do is screw the wrench in a little to release the mag. At this point it is the same where you can put the mag in and out but you are pushing on the wrench to do so.)

My question is, does leaving the wrench screwed in make the wrench an accessory? And if so, how would that be different from attaching the wrench with a steel wire or string to the rifle? Just a matter of perception?

Is this one of those things where I just shouldn't go their and don't leave the wrench screwed in? Or was it intended to work that way?

I believe this to be relevant to this thread because if it looks illegal to LE I could get arrested, or charged with possession of an AW if it is illegal.

And yes, I am new to ARs (but not guns). I'm working on my first build now. Just need the barrel, gas system and hand guard.
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  #343  
Old 05-13-2015, 1:06 PM
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SO after reading the description in detail a little closer I have decided that if left on an AR it would indeed be illegal for use in PRK. It is only to be used as a wrench to "install" a BB in this state.
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  #344  
Old 05-16-2015, 9:34 PM
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Question about OAL. I get it is 26" for RAW and 30" for non-AW. I also understand OAL is measured with stock in shortest position if weapon can be fired this way.

I assume OAL does not include the flash hider/compensator for 16" or greater barrels. Where does barrel end for this measurement? At the end of the threads? At the shoulder of the barrel, beginning of the threads.

I have read quite a lot of information and reviewed in detail the flow chart, but other than taking into account a collapsible stock did not see details on what constitutes OAL.

Thanks in advance.
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  #345  
Old 05-17-2015, 6:21 PM
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OAL includes the muzzle device if it is "permanently" attached I.e. pinned and welded. If not then it would end at the end of the barrel. Not the shoulder of the threads.

Feds consider overall length to include muzzle device but ca has stipulation that it is permanently attached to be included in the measurement.

Hope that helps.
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  #346  
Old 05-17-2015, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastapwr View Post
Question about OAL. I get it is 26" for RAW and 30" for non-AW. I also understand OAL is measured with stock in shortest position if weapon can be fired this way.

I assume OAL does not include the flash hider/compensator for 16" or greater barrels. Where does barrel end for this measurement? At the end of the threads? At the shoulder of the barrel, beginning of the threads.

I have read quite a lot of information and reviewed in detail the flow chart, but other than taking into account a collapsible stock did not see details on what constitutes OAL.

Thanks in advance.
federal law states that barrel length measurement is made from the breachface of the locked bolt to the end of the barrel with any removable muzzle attachments removed. CA doesn't really say more than that for barrel measurement.

for the 26" and 30" measurements, there is no PC/CCR/USC/CFR that says that removable muzzle devices must be removed before measuring OAL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
Feds consider overall length to include muzzle device but ca has stipulation that it is permanently attached to be included in the measurement.
where is this stipulated?
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  #347  
Old 05-17-2015, 6:51 PM
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Thanks for the answers. Both make sense and are in line with what I was thinking. Based on CA law stating muzzle device must be pinned/welded to be included and Federal law stating measured with removable device removed. I will ensure my OAL is 30" with removable device removed. I will include the thread for the muzzle device as this is the "true" end of the barrel.

Again, thanks.
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  #348  
Old 05-17-2015, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pastapwr View Post
Thanks for the answers. Both make sense and are in line with what I was thinking. Based on CA law stating muzzle device must be pinned/welded to be included and Federal law stating measured with removable device removed. I will ensure my OAL is 30" with removable device removed. I will include the thread for the muzzle device as this is the "true" end of the barrel.

Again, thanks.
where does either CA or federal law say those things for OAL? that said, making length with removable items removed is good sense so that those items don't "accidentally" disappear during a potential court case.
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  #349  
Old 05-17-2015, 8:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
federal law states that barrel length measurement is made from the breachface of the locked bolt to the end of the barrel with any removable muzzle attachments removed. CA doesn't really say more than that for barrel measurement.

Here is the paragraph from the ATF

"The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100įF) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured."
for the 26" and 30" measurements, there is no PC/CCR/USC/CFR that says that removable muzzle devices must be removed before measuring OAL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
where is this stipulated?
My mistake.. as to the measurement of OAL...
As I understand it.. the barrel is included in OAL.
The feds consider a muzzle device to be part of barrel length where as in CA that muzzle device must be permanently attached for it to be considered as part of the measurement of the barrel.


I can't find where it says permanently attached from CADOJ but found the above quote from another thread.
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  #350  
Old 05-17-2015, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
Here is the paragraph from the ATF

"The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100įF) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured."
I am aware of that paragraph, hence my statement that the barrel measurement be made with any removable muzzle attachments removed. but that paragraph has nothing to do with OAL measurements.





Quote:
My mistake.. as to the measurement of OAL...
As I understand it.. the barrel is included in OAL.
The feds consider a muzzle device to be part of barrel length where as in CA that muzzle device must be permanently attached for it to be considered as part of the measurement of the barrel.


I can't find where it says permanently attached from CADOJ but found the above quote from another thread.
huh? a removable muzzle device is not part of barrel lentgh but nothing says that that removable muzzle device can't be used to help make 26" OAL or 30" OAL.
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  #351  
Old 05-18-2015, 1:33 PM
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where does either CA or federal law say those things for OAL? that said, making length with removable items removed is good sense so that those items don't "accidentally" disappear during a potential court case.
That was my point. I don't see where it "clearly stipulates" OAL measuring process. So we are left using logic and reason.

Since barrel length includes permanently attached muzzle devices and does not include removable devices and the barrel is part of the OAL; the the conclusion one must draw is that OAL would be measured with removable devices removed.
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  #352  
Old 05-25-2015, 3:58 PM
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Ok, after reading a lot of pages and threads here and on other websites, I'm still confused on the legality of my ARs. I thought it's only the lower that led to legal problems and not the uppers.

Both ARs were built from lowers that I bought in CA gun stores. I just ordered the two uppers online. Both uppers are 16", one with a flash hider and one with a muzzle brake. The brands are SOTArms and Stoner.

Last edited by chipper; 05-25-2015 at 5:47 PM..
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Old 05-25-2015, 4:04 PM
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Do you have magazine locks on both carbines? Then chances are that you are legal.
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Old 05-25-2015, 5:24 PM
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Yes, I have bullet buttons on both ARs.
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Old 08-25-2015, 9:56 PM
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I was informed by a friend that you are not supposed to detach the magazine for loading purposes even if you have a bullet button. That the bullet button was for cleaning purposes only. I checked the flow chart as all my lowers were purchased in Ca and compliant so I am good there. Can I have Ca legal detached magazines for the purpose of loading? I hunt with my AR and I really dont need any problems for some one who is over zealous.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:03 PM
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Your friend is a moron.

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Old 08-26-2015, 3:00 AM
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Welchy is correct.


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Old 08-26-2015, 8:42 PM
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Thats what I figured.
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Old 08-26-2015, 9:18 PM
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First time for everything.

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Old 09-21-2015, 9:13 AM
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I just finished my first AR-15 build. I was going through the Flow Chart and it brought about a question. It does have an adjustable stock but at its shortest position is over the 30" minimum length. To be 100% legal, am I required to replace the adjustable stock?
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