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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #161  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
Yes - although I am fairly certain that you are not required to answer any questions. . .

I could be wrong, however. . .
yeah i guess you could always plead the 5th, and refuse searches also, but my experience's with LEO's is that they have too much pride and power, and any resistance to them will only bring more trouble, so as long as i dont have anything illegal, im not going to give an LEO an opportunity to harass me. just my opinion
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  #162  
Old 03-09-2011, 4:04 PM
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I like to read all these posts and enjoy them, even the LEO bashing. I of course understand some of the feelings even if most are not the norm. I've been a LEO since the 80's and shooting much longer. I can honestly tell you I've done far more educating folks about gun laws when they are in violation then arresting them. I can only speak for myself when I say that if you're honest with an LEO about what you're legally carrying, ie guns, things will go much better. Yes, LEO's do make mistakes on what is legal and what's illegal, but hopefully things will be handled professionally and figured out before anyone gets arrested. In my area officers are told NOT to make physical arrests for possession of illegal AW's. If we find an AW and there is a question about if its legal or not, the weapon is sent to the lab where it is looked at by a AW expert in the most current laws. Yes the weapon may be taken for a short time but if legal it's returned. If it's an OLL then it's legal in my book, go on your way. Most departments at least have an a "gun" person who can explain the laws to the officer who may not be as knowledgeable on the subject. Now if I find some dirtbag with and AW he stole from a home he broke into, well all bets are off at that time! Most officers I know are in favor of gun rights, no matter what the Chief;s may say.

Although I still don't see how all the OC guys are helping much. These guys come thru our city once once in a while scaring the crap out of the general public and wasting our time playing the game of checking to make sure the gun is unloaded. All the time video taping the incident hoping some young cop demands ID or pulls the tape covering the S/N off their gun so they can sue and get some free money from these cities who can't even afford to pay their employees! Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by East County; 03-10-2011 at 6:12 AM..
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  #163  
Old 03-09-2011, 4:30 PM
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I agree with everything you just said.

FOLKS - let's not make this an "us versus them" thing.

I know I sometimes do that myself - anyone with google can find the posts - but the truth is that I come from an LE family (my uncle was a Sheriff in North Georgia for years) - and I never want us to be the type of community that excludes people simply because they are trying to do a job.

It's not fair, and I have a BIG issue with things that are not fair.

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Originally Posted by East County View Post
I like to read all these posts and enjoy them, even the LEO bashing. I of course understand some of the feelings even if most are not the norm. I've been a LEO since the 80's and shooting much longer. I can honestly tell you I've done far more educating folks about guns laws when they are in violation then arresting them. I can only speak for myself when I say that if you're honest with an LEO about what you're legally carrying, ie guns, things will go much better. Yes, LEO's do make mistakes on what is legal and what's illegal, but hopefully things will be handled professionally and figured out before anyone gets arrested. In my area officers are told NOT to make physical arrests for possession of illegal AW's. If we find an AW and there is a question about if its legal or not, the weapon is sent to the lab where it is looked at by a AW expert in the most current laws. Yes the weapon may be taken for a short time but if legal it's returned. Most departments at least have an a "gun" person who can explain the laws to the officer who may not be as knowledgeable on the subject. Now if I find some dirtbag with and AW he stole from a home he broke into, well all bets are off at that time! Most officers I know are in favor of gun rights, no matter what the Chief;s may say.

Although I still don't see how all the OC guys are helping much. These guys come thru our city once once in a while scaring the crap out of the general public and wasting our time playing the game of checking to make sure the gun is unloaded. All the time video taping the incident hoping some young cop demands ID or pulls the tape covering the S/N off their gun so they can sue and get some free money from these cities who can't even afford to pay their employees! Just my 2 cents.
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  #164  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
This is the general rule:

1) Everything needs to be unloaded

2) Everything needs to be in a locked "container." An SUV is not a locked container, but a car trunk is.

3) If you don't drive though any GFSZ, then the rifles don't have to be in a locked container. But the pistols still do, no matter what.

It's safer to start with the assumption that everything must be unloaded and in a locked container, then adjust as needed.
x2

I drive a pickup, no trunk. So, all my weapons are in locked containers during transport. Heck, I put a lock through the plastic ammo carrying cases too.

You also never know when you'll be pulled over by LE and happen to be in a GFSZ. If your weapons are not locked then, I believe you can be up the creek.

Therefore, lock'em up during any transport, it is not that hard. This way, your travels with weapons are without question.
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  #165  
Old 03-20-2011, 2:38 PM
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Please google "calguns wiki" before you pick up your semi automatic rifle (it's not an "assault" anything).

We are super happy you are joining the ranks of folks who own "off list lowers" in California - but please understand the law and history of what you are doing before you pick up your rifle.

The laws are tricky and even making one small change to your rifle could make merely touching it a crime.

It's that serious and that's why this thread is here!

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Originally Posted by Sanderhawk View Post
I `m new here. What does "OLL" stand for? Frim what I read its seems like something to do with AK`s or assult weapons. I`m getting an ak47 in a couple days when the 10 hold is over i`m thinking its a good idea to know what this means. Thanks Steve


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  #166  
Old 04-18-2011, 8:14 PM
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Default Pre ban vs post ban & bullet button

Does installing a bullet button make it legal to build a rifle in CA today with a newly registered stripped OLL and a pre ban AR15 disassembled rifle kit?

The flow chart doesn't mention anything about pre or post ban, and it seems like pre ban features are allowable, so long as there is a fixed magazine with 10 or fewer rounds.

Am I missing a big no-no here?

Thanks! Just got my first paperweight, but it won't do that for long!
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  #167  
Old 04-18-2011, 8:31 PM
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pre-ban and post-ban are terms that normally refer to the federal AW ban, not the CA AW ban. Just follow the flowchart and it will tell you what you can and can't have on your OLL.
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  #168  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:08 PM
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Yes - I agree with "K" here. Please do some research on the legal climate before you build up your rifle. The fact that the "pre-post" ban issue was part of a federal law that sunsetted SEVEN years ago, and only had limited application in this state (due to what was essentially "local preemption"), means that you still have some learning to do.

Start with the flowchart, then the Calguns Wiki. Google the phrases that you don't understand. The law in CA is very complex and often makes no sense at all. So you REALLY need to learn it.

You can PM me if you want to talk. I can kind of explain the basics for you. It won't be legal advice, but as long as you understand that - I'm willing to educate you.

NOW - you might wonder why I would even do this - since it seems like I'm pretty busy (I am). It's a lot easier for us to educate you on the law, than it is for us to mount a defense if you make even an innocent mistake in the way that you configure your rifle.

This offer stands for anyone. I may not be able to talk to you "quick" - but I am always happy to talk to people who need to understand where to find the law, etc. . .

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck1024 View Post
Does installing a bullet button make it legal to build a rifle in CA today with a newly registered stripped OLL and a pre ban AR15 disassembled rifle kit?

The flow chart doesn't mention anything about pre or post ban, and it seems like pre ban features are allowable, so long as there is a fixed magazine with 10 or fewer rounds.

Am I missing a big no-no here?

Thanks! Just got my first paperweight, but it won't do that for long!
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  #169  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:28 PM
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I appreciate the kind offer. I'm doing plenty of research, but I'm not done yet. I wanted to confirm what I think I've mustered so far. I also don't want to waste your time.

My understanding is that for a 5.56mm OLL rifle to not be illegal it must be longer than 30", not fully automatic, not .50BMG, and must have a fixed magazine not capable of holding more than 10 rounds, which is accomplished through a bullet button. Based on the flowchart.

I guess what confuses me is the whole, more than one evil features stuff I've read about, but I think that has to do with using hi-cap magazines--not as sure since it's not something that interests me much. 10 rounds and a bullet button is fine.
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  #170  
Old 04-19-2011, 6:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck1024 View Post
I appreciate the kind offer. I'm doing plenty of research, but I'm not done yet. I wanted to confirm what I think I've mustered so far. I also don't want to waste your time.

My understanding is that for a 5.56mm OLL rifle to not be illegal it must be longer than 30", not fully automatic, not .50BMG, and must have a fixed magazine not capable of holding more than 10 rounds, which is accomplished through a bullet button. Based on the flowchart.

I guess what confuses me is the whole, more than one evil features stuff I've read about, but I think that has to do with using hi-cap magazines--not as sure since it's not something that interests me much. 10 rounds and a bullet button is fine.
Not all OLL rifles "must have a fixed magazine". If the rifle is 'featureless' - no pistol grip, no forward grip, no flash hider, etc - then you can have a standard magazine release. Also, in this scenario, if you happen to have any 30 round magazines, you are OK to use them too.

A Bullet Button (Magazine Lock) comes into play when you add 'evil features'. As soon as you add that pistol grip or flash hider, etc., you now need to have a mag-lock, and you are restricted to magazines of 10 rounds or less. Also, just for clarification, an 11+ round magazine is not an 'evil feature', and should absolutely never be inserted into a rifle with a mag-lock.

So, basically, whether or not to install a Bullet Button depends on how you want to build your rifle.

Last edited by Chris M; 04-19-2011 at 6:29 AM..
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  #171  
Old 05-01-2011, 7:03 PM
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I put this in another post where another member seemed to think all LEOs should know all the laws. I'll say this again, you never know what the LEO knows about OLLs, and you don't know what kind of day he's had before he pulls you over. While I don't think they are always out to get you, there is an uncertainty when you get pulled over and I have to believe that about 80% of the people that this officer stops lie to him about something so he's probably not going to believe to much of what I say. If in doubt he will get the weapon off the street and let the higher ups decide on the legality. (been there with my son on a transport of firearms issue, lucky for me a detective didn't feel any laws were broken and it only cost some impound fees). This can mean confiscating your gun, arresting you and or impounding your vehicle all in the line of doing his job. Who pays the cost has been ask several times in this post. You do, you hire the lawyer, you pay to get your car out of impound and whatever other costs are involved in defending yourself, or in most cases until they don't file charges, and release your stuff. Sueing the city???? I've read this one in posts about all the money there going to get. The city and LE agencies have lawyers to fight these cases, and if you could get it to court, asking a jury of taxpayers to give you their city tax money is tough, especially since most of them have little or no knowledge of gun laws and think your OLL looks like an assault weapon. Why not follow ithe common sense rules laid out in this post, carry your paperwork and avoid the problem. I like to choose my battles, arguing with a LEO on the street over gun legalities isn't a battle I want to be involved in.
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  #172  
Old 05-05-2011, 9:15 AM
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Is there an archive or thread that discusses all the prosecutions of OLL's? I am still nervous about taking my OLL to a public range, so far I have only taken it out into the desert (which is 10x more fun btw).
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  #173  
Old 05-07-2011, 11:42 PM
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Well we had the open carry group come through our city a couple months back playing their games. Besides wasting many of my offices times, it sure scared the hell out of the women and kids in the area of the well known coffee shop. A couple weeks ago I was asked to train several officers on how to handle this. They ask me because I;m the department "Gun Guy". I explained the California laws they need to know when dealing with these types.

I had some time left over so I trained them on AW laws. They now know what OLL's are, bullet buttons, and the rest of all the black bad guns. Most of the officers really had no idea in this area but now there will be at least 15 cops educated in OLL's in the San Diego area that won't mess with legal AR type weapons. Just try to be cool and try to explain to the officer why your gun is legal. Don;t lie, Don't yell at him and make him feel you may become combative. Just be a good responsible gun opener and we all can focus on the bad guys together!
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  #174  
Old 05-08-2011, 7:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East County View Post
Well we had the open carry group come through our city a couple months back EXCERSIZING THEIR RIGHT. Besides wasting many of my offices times, it sure scared the hell out of the women and kids in the area of the well known coffee shop. A couple weeks ago I was asked to train several officers on how to handle this. They ask me because I;m the department "Gun Guy". I explained the California laws they need to know when dealing with these types.

I had some time left over so I trained them on AW laws. They now know what OLL's are, bullet buttons, and the rest of all the black bad guns. Most of the officers really had no idea in this area but now there will be at least 15 cops educated in OLL's in the San Diego area that won't mess with legal AR type weapons. Just try to be cool and try to explain to the officer why your gun is legal. Don;t lie, Don't yell at him and make him feel you may become combative. Just be a good responsible gun opener and we all can focus on the bad guys together!
Fixed it for you.

I appreciate you being the "gun guy" and educating fellow officers.
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  #175  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:53 AM
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I just found this thread (and others) after a recent experience that I would like to share, it touches on many of the topics I have read up to this point.

I was leaving My local range (On-Target) about a month ago when I was quickly pulled over by LE. In my brand new truck with nothing broken etc. he gets to my window and says 'do you know why I pulled you over?" clearly not wanting to incriminate myself I say "No Officer" (although I did have no idea why I'd barely driven 500 feet).

He says he saw me cut off a car turning out of the driveway, I said "OK I'm very sorry I didn't see another car, what did I do wrong?" He then jumps right to the topic "I" feel he pulled me over for.

"Do you have any weapons, guns, knives in your vehicle?" Never wanting to lie and knowing he just saw me pull out of On-Target, I said "yes I do I was just at the range" He the said he wanted to complete an inspection of the weapons and I had no choice now that I had told him I had them.

I unlocked my tonneau cover and told him what to expect when I opened it. 2 locked cases on the left with my weapons and one locked case on the right with Ammo and Magazines. He said thank you and please open the lid.

I then unlocked the cases for him to inspect, he found 1- Mini 14 - 1- winchester lever action 30-30 and 2 pistols. all unloaded and no magazines in the same cases.

He then put pressure on me to search the rest of my truck to which I politely said No and that I was being fully cooperative and why is he making more out of this stop?

He went on to try and tell me he had all the rights and he could arrest me right now if he wanted to? I didn't know why, but still told him no to searching my truck, he told me he was "thinking" of arresting me and then put me in the back of his patrol car. I was like WTF. he never handcuffed me. then he stood on the side of the road for 15 minutes on his walkie talkie till he came back and let me out.

He told me all my guns were registered (which I already knew) and that he appreciated me telling him that I had them in my possession and to have a nice day.

Seriously!!! about an hour on the side of the road, 15 in the back of the LE car and he just says have a nice day.

Clearly he was looking to bust someone with an illegal or unregistered or stored improperly while driving gun/guns right outside the range exit.

But I found although it was a hassle, being honest, having everything legal and transporting them under the correct methods clearly kept me out of trouble.

Just thought I would share for what it's worth.
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  #176  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:05 PM
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It's Clean Up Day in this thread. A few posts will disappear... Like, 150.

And "OLL" is "Off List Lower", a lower receiver for an AR or AK-type rifle that is NOT listed in either the original Roberti-Roos law nor in the later Kasler lawsuit opinion.
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Last edited by Librarian; 05-26-2011 at 12:40 PM..
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  #177  
Old 05-26-2011, 6:55 PM
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Thanks L!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It's Clean Up Day in this thread. A few posts will disappear... Like, 150.

And "OLL" is "Off List Lower", a lower receiver for an AR or AK-type rifle that is NOT listed in either the original Roberti-Roos law nor in the later Kasler lawsuit opinion.
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  #178  
Old 05-28-2011, 1:09 PM
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Where can I find an up to date, substantial GFSZ map?
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  #179  
Old 05-28-2011, 1:23 PM
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you can't. There isn't one.
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  #180  
Old 06-08-2011, 4:47 PM
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is there a need for a rebuild or converted 10/30 round magazine base plate to be glued or riveted in order to be CA legal?
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  #181  
Old 06-13-2011, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus_bervus View Post
is there a need for a rebuild or converted 10/30 round magazine base plate to be glued or riveted in order to be CA legal?
I'm wondering this too, some people say yes, but others say its one of those "technically, no since its a rebuild kit once its taken apart.." but it all depends on how the LEO who is inspecting feels about it. Also, It can probably be defended in court, but it may be more hassle than its worth.

Can anyone add insight please?
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  #182  
Old 06-13-2011, 9:26 PM
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The "opinion" is that the mags should be glued/rivted/welded, etc. in such a way as to not be "convertible" back to more than 10 rounds. . .

Folks - don't argue with me on this - just do it. You will like me when you have to defend your mag in court.

ALSO - IF you can jam an 11th round in there - it's still a high-cap - EVEN if the gun won't strip the round. Please do not argue with me on that, either - just make you you can't jam an 11th round in there.

I know these things because I am usually the first person who gets "the phone call" from folks who have been arrested. I can't speak to the above issues, for privacy reasons - BUT - I can tell you that IF there's a way that something "can" be found "illegal" - it will. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbientR View Post
I'm wondering this too, some people say yes, but others say its one of those "technically, no since its a rebuild kit once its taken apart.." but it all depends on how the LEO who is inspecting feels about it. Also, It can probably be defended in court, but it may be more hassle than its worth.

Can anyone add insight please?
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  #183  
Old 06-17-2011, 8:37 AM
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Great thread! I'd like to add another thought: Just because you aren't paranoid, DOES NOT mean no one is watching!

One day at the range, I saw a fellow shooting one-handed cloverleafs with a 1911. I struck up a conversation with him, call him "Clyde", and found him quite personable as well as skillful. We chatted for 20 minutes or so, the usual stuff at the range.

I came home and told the story to my wife, who works for CA DOJ. She looked at me oddly, and asked what Clyde looked like. When I described him, and given his unique name, she was just about certain she knew him. After she came home from work the next day, she said "Yes, that was the same Clyde who works six doors down from me. He enjoyed meeting you."

There's no way anyone would have known Clyde was a DOJI. I never hesitated when he asked if he could check out my pre-ban HK-94.
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  #184  
Old 06-21-2011, 7:18 PM
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Thumbs up

yeah man thanks for the info got to be smart out in the jungle.
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  #185  
Old 06-21-2011, 10:34 PM
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Hey guys some great info. I picked up a dsa sa58 10 round mag with the mag release secured with a allen set screw is this legal?
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  #186  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:52 AM
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I get pulled over by cops on a weekly basis for having bullet holes in my car.
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  #187  
Old 06-23-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
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Here's a graphic for those who think visually:

I just saw this (inexplicable I know but there it is). Right on point.
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  #188  
Old 06-30-2011, 6:09 AM
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Originally Posted by badboy0757 View Post
wow, this is an interesting thread.
i don't live in californistan.
but, in my own personal experience.
just name, rank, and serial number attitude will get you searched and possibly arrested until everything is sorted out.
i would suggest having a solid "legal" explanation for any mods to your guns.
before leo speaks to you, they go into cop mode, they're looking and 'listening' for illegalities!
never discuss anything illegal with a cop. if he asks if your homebuilt ar is a aw. state no, this is an ar-replica or ar-style rifle that is legal to own. if wants more details than that. you'd better have your i's dotted and t's crossed. but above all be courteous and friendly. bad attitude will make leo want to bust you.

interesting, that you don't have to lock up your long arms for transport.
here all firearms must be locked in 'approved' carry cases, in the locked truck of car, if in truck must be out of sight. ammo must also be in locked case and separate from gun.
99.9% of why aw's have such a bad rap is drug dealing gang bangers wanting to shoot each other over drug turf. and we all know that "the law is no deterent for outlaws!" i just wish someone could explain that to the the politicians.
What State are you from?..We can carry in the TRUNK with ammo, no case. (unloaded of course)

We carry an AW flow chart with us and other paperwork to inform an under-educated Police officer. If it gets weird we ask for his Supervisor.
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  #189  
Old 07-26-2011, 3:55 AM
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Excellent advice and to your point of DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, I suggest if you (people reading this thread) haven't watched this video on YouTube (Don't Talk to Police), take 45 minutes out of your life and watch it. NOW!
Good point
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  #190  
Old 07-29-2011, 2:41 PM
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I am new to cal guns, and this is seriously the best thread on the this forum. All I wanted to say is, thank you to everyone who contributed, this thread truely is invalueable. Again a very sincere thank you to all of you!
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  #191  
Old 07-31-2011, 10:00 PM
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this is a great topic..love calguns! learn new thing everyday.
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  #192  
Old 08-01-2011, 5:15 PM
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Great thread, and just my two cents....Magazines and range membership cards have apparently made LEO suspicious on a few members here. All too often I see guys with gun racks in their pick ups, or NRA stickers on their bumpers. I support the NRA and Im a combat Veteran, but this thread has me re-thinking displaying my pride.

Ill keep my guns and money, you can keep the "CHANGE"
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  #193  
Old 08-07-2011, 4:14 PM
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Default Why have an Open Carry?

Sorry if this sounds ignorant.. it is.
If you have a open carry, unloaded weapon, what is the "distance" between a weapon and ammo?
Back/ Front pockets?
Gym Bag?
SB
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  #194  
Old 08-12-2011, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunbowler@yahoo.com View Post
Sorry if this sounds ignorant.. it is.
If you have a open carry, unloaded weapon, what is the "distance" between a weapon and ammo?
Back/ Front pockets?
Gym Bag?
SB
Distance is not in the mag well or cylinder I do believe... To my knowledge there is no ruling on distance besides not being physically in the firearm itself. But then again this is a thread about OLL's and not UOC.
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  #195  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:18 AM
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Any new news on the bullet botton ?
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  #196  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:37 AM
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Any new news on the bullet botton ?
No, perfectly legal under law as written. I should know ;-)

BUT please use only 10 round (or less) magazines!

I can tell you that pretty much EVERY firearms wholesaler is now shipping BB equiped firearms to CA (when required). I also understand that the DOJ itself has admitted (I forget how) that these ARE LEGAL.

We have said this for years, BTW. The law is clear that these are legal in CA.


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  #197  
Old 09-26-2011, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYsteveZ View Post
Great thread, and just my two cents....Magazines and range membership cards have apparently made LEO suspicious on a few members here. All too often I see guys with gun racks in their pick ups, or NRA stickers on their bumpers. I support the NRA and Im a combat Veteran, but this thread has me re-thinking displaying my pride.

Ill keep my guns and money, you can keep the "CHANGE"
Yes, MOST LE folks are supportive of our rights. But there are still some who have not been adequately trained. As always, discretion is the better part of valor.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.
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  #198  
Old 10-05-2011, 1:50 PM
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Unhappy something else to think about

in the part of PRK i live in the only reason they need to mess with u when u get pulled over is the Base Decal on ur fount window. i have 3 mil stickers my USAR my OIF and my Base decal. i could speculate the reasons that LEO's dont like Mil. all day! but that not Y where here
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  #199  
Old 10-05-2011, 2:03 PM
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[/QUOTE]3) MAKE SURE YOUR OLL IS LEGAL.

Read the flowchart. Understand it. Do not configure your rifle in a way that is illegal.

Again, these are all common sense, but I think that some new gun owners are so excited about getting their first OLL that they kind of lose sight of common sense.[/QUOTE]

Flow chart says all DPMS lowers are illegal in cali, Yet a couple say this is not true. What is your ˘2 on this??
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  #200  
Old 10-07-2011, 10:11 AM
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Hey Everyone, I haven't been on CGN for a while and haven't been keeping up with the OLL/Bullet button situation, but I'm wondering if things are starting to settle down a bit? Are OLL's so common now that LEO is a little more up to speed on OLL's and BB's? I know we all need to follow the flow chart and I know there'll always be that one LEO that thinks a legally configured OLL is and AW, but I'm hoping I can be a little less paranoid these days. The market has flooded with legally configured rifles utilizing BB's, and with big retailers such as Turners making them available to the public, how could OLL's not be viewed as the norm by LEO?
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