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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2009, 10:20 PM
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Thumbs up Another cheaper 10/30 PMAG how-to! ONLY $1.20 each

First of all, let me give props to Aermotor. His tutorial was the jumping off point for this one. For some reason, I couldn't get his method to work as smoothly as this one, but as always, YMMV. Now, to the tutorial!

The materials:
  • (1) 10-24 5" machine screw
  • (2) 10-24 nylon locking nuts

About $1.20 in materials.

FYI: There are two main types of machine screws: Sink screws and Round Head screws. If you use Sink screws it will require very little countersinking. I couldn't find any Sink screws, so I had to use the Round Head type and that required a bit more countersinking for me.

I HIGHLY recommend you use a variable speed drill and some sort of wrench to hold the nylon locking nut. Threading that sucker all the way down the 5" screw will get VERY tedious without those tools - but it IS possible.

Here's the final outcome of the follower, spring, 10 round limiter screw and baseplate.



FIRST: Use a 3/8" drill bit to countersink the 5" 10-24 machine screw in the baseplate. You can either do this by hand with the drill bit or use a variable speed drill. Be careful not to drill out too much material here...


NEXT: Insert the 5" 10-24 machine screw through the baseplate and thread one of the nylon locking nuts all the way down to the bottom. This part will probably REALLY suck if you don't use a drill and a wrench to get the nut all the way down to the baseplate. CAUTION: Be sure and face the rounded end of the locking nut down towards the baseplate - this way it will fit in nice and snug.


THEN: Thread the other nylon locking nut onto the top of the 5" 10-24 machine screw. I chose to face the rounded end up, but I'm sure it will work either way. This is what you can use to "fine tune" the limiter to accept EXACTLY 10 rounds.


ALSO: Bend the 5" 10-24 machine screw to match the curvature of the 30 round mag. You can also use this curvature to "fine tune" the final limit of EXACTLY 10 rounds.


FINALLY: Use the 3/8" drill bit to countersink the bottom plate of the PMAG to fit the head of the machine screw and lock into place.


Now all you have to do is assemble the mag and apply some epoxy to the bottom retaining plate of the PMAG or rivet the baseplate and retaining plate together and off you go!

ENJOY!!

Last edited by djleisure; 05-20-2009 at 11:16 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2009, 11:01 PM
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Nice, and no mess. I'm going to give this a try. Thanks
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2009, 8:00 AM
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I tweaked some images and made a couple edits. Now I think it's good to go.
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  #4  
Old 05-19-2009, 9:26 AM
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Haha... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=179269
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
Not quite sure I understand the laugh and the link... but yeah, that's your how-to that I was referring to in my first post.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:36 PM
gn3hz3ku1* gn3hz3ku1* is offline
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2 nuts and 1 screw right?
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:39 PM
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yep, that's all! Just make sure they are "nylon locking" nuts, so they don't un-thread themselves.
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:47 PM
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homedepot? cool thanks! 1.2 is better than 30 bucks for one already converted...
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:50 PM
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I'm not trying to bag on you, I honestly want to know...

Why would I want to do your revised (or well slightly different) version of Aermotor's method when yours requires countersinking two parts, which is a real permanent mod. His doesn't. I also like rivets a lot more than epoxy as I can simply drill out a rivet if I need to go in and "service" the mag.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2009, 2:59 PM
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Oh weird I totally missed that in your OG post sorry I'm a douche
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agro View Post
I'm not trying to bag on you, I honestly want to know...

Why would I want to do your revised (or well slightly different) version of Aermotor's method when yours requires countersinking two parts, which is a real permanent mod. His doesn't. I also like rivets a lot more than epoxy as I can simply drill out a rivet if I need to go in and "service" the mag.
permanent means no servicing right?
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agro View Post
I'm not trying to bag on you, I honestly want to know...

Why would I want to do your revised (or well slightly different) version of Aermotor's method when yours requires countersinking two parts, which is a real permanent mod. His doesn't. I also like rivets a lot more than epoxy as I can simply drill out a rivet if I need to go in and "service" the mag.
First of all, this isn't meant to be a competition, it's just an alternative. I give Aermotor full credit for the base idea. That said, you would need to countersink Aermotor's version as well, if you actually want the baseplate to sit flush and "click in" to the baseplate retainer (I believe he even mentions that in his how-to.) Secondly, you can choose to finish it up any way you want - epoxy OR rivets. I'm guessing there are more people with epoxy on hand than rivet sets, but it doesn't really matter for this version - just the internals are slightly different.

I'm just trying to add to the knowledge base and offer alternatives. Feel free to use the information or not.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:13 PM
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Permanent is a vague term when dealing with this, nothing is ever really permanent, but if you are rivited/epoxied, that is permanent and will suffice.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:14 PM
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^^^Yup, what he said.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
Oh weird I totally missed that in your OG post sorry I'm a douche
No big deal, I was guessing you just went straight to the pics and info - it's all cool!
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  #16  
Old 05-19-2009, 3:46 PM
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epoxy doesn't stick to pmags. it will come off easily with your fingers. you need to rivet them.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2009, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaselton View Post
epoxy doesn't stick to pmags. it will come off easily with your fingers. you need to rivet them.
There are plenty of binary epoxies that will work on a PMAG - no problem. Maybe some weaker epoxies do not, but saying "epoxy doesn't stick to pmags" is an inaccurate, sweeping generalization. I expect everyone that follows any 10/30 modification directions to use their own common sense and "comfort level" to ensure their mags are modified permanently.

If you're not comfortable with epoxy, then rivet away!
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2009, 1:37 PM
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i got bought everything i need.. hope mine comes out nice

ps homedepot doesnt have the 5 inchers for some reason

i also just want to say i hate CA for not telling me use my legal 30 rders in my legal but "fun" AR and they just sit there... hoping for attention in CA and not just the rare out of state fun..

well now that old age is hitting a few of them.. maybe ill just end up rebuilt some with pmag parts since they seem to be the new fad.

Last edited by gn3hz3ku1*; 05-20-2009 at 1:39 PM..
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2009, 3:39 PM
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I'm surprised Home Depot didn't have those machine screws. I got mine from a local hardware store and a couple from Osh as well. Let me know how yours turn out!
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2009, 4:27 PM
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nice.. clean.. I would only be concerned that expoy will not keep that base plate "permanent" yada yada yada. but i Like the idea and agree, it is defined vague enough, you have to do what you think is comfortable for you to meet "permanent".
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  #21  
Old 05-22-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnehzekul View Post
i got bought everything i need.. hope mine comes out nice

ps homedepot doesnt have the 5 inchers for some reason

i also just want to say i hate CA for not telling me use my legal 30 rders in my legal but "fun" AR and they just sit there... hoping for attention in CA and not just the rare out of state fun..

well now that old age is hitting a few of them.. maybe ill just end up rebuilt some with pmag parts since they seem to be the new fad.
How did it turn out? Did you get everything to work?
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2009, 10:24 AM
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interesting how reliable is it? good thinking though.
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2009, 1:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
interesting how reliable is it? good thinking though.
So far it has been very reliable. The machine screw is actually very solid in there. I put a couple hundred rounds through one mag and it has held up just fine. The system makes it very easy to fine tune, so the follower will only allow 10 rounds with enough play in there to use the top cap as well. Since the nuts are nylon locking nuts, they should stay in place indefinitely.
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  #24  
Old 05-27-2009, 10:56 AM
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Anybody else try this method yet? I've converted about 8 mags so far and have the process down to about 5 minutes each...
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  #25  
Old 06-09-2009, 1:15 PM
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Now that 30 round PMAGs are back all over the market, I figured I'd bump this up to keep the info out there... enjoy.
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  #26  
Old 06-15-2009, 4:47 PM
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Keeping the info alive!
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2009, 4:58 PM
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How did you bend the 5" screw, or what's the best way?
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2009, 2:29 PM
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This a great method - even for us behind the curtain in NJ. I'd like to mod a few Pmags to 10 so I can take my AR to NY ranges.

Everything looks really easy and reliable, but I'm not sure how the nut (or wingnut in the original design) "fine tunes" the depth of the follower. Doesn't the end of the screw stop the follower no matter where that end nut/wingnut is?
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2009, 3:12 PM
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Very novel approach; kudos!
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2009, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BigPea View Post
How did you bend the 5" screw, or what's the best way?
I just did that with my hands, no problem at all. I guess if you get a tough machine screw, just wedge in somewhere you can get leverage on it and bend it that way... but it really shouldn't be a problem with just your hands.
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Old 06-17-2009, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerold View Post
Everything looks really easy and reliable, but I'm not sure how the nut (or wingnut in the original design) "fine tunes" the depth of the follower. Doesn't the end of the screw stop the follower no matter where that end nut/wingnut is?
With the nylon locking nut in my design, you can get a very reliable 1/4"-1/2" up and down differential. If you put the nylon nut in "locking end" first, then the nut will stick up higher off the tip of the machine screw. Conversely, if you need to make more room for that last round, (plus a little extra room for inserting mag while bolt is closed,) then you can just screw the nut down below the end of the machine screw. PLUS you can simply bend the machine screw more or less to tune it even further. Piece o' cake!
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Old 06-17-2009, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerold View Post
Everything looks really easy and reliable, but I'm not sure how the nut (or wingnut in the original design) "fine tunes" the depth of the follower. Doesn't the end of the screw stop the follower no matter where that end nut/wingnut is?
That's why I think a wingnut is better because you can cut the bolt about 1/2" shorter, then use the wingnut to get your 1/2" back but also allow you to go down that same 1/2" (which is more than enough) to get exactly 10 rounds. What I did in a later design is put a nylon nut on first, get the wingnut to the right height, then move the nylon nut up tight on the wingnut so neither will move, add some locktite and you're done.

I wouldn't say changing a wingnut for a nylon nut makes this a different design from my original concept, heh... in fact I even used nylon in mine along with wings. No offense, I still just don't get the point of this since it's what I did with a different nut and more work to counter sink the retaining plate which there's no need for with a flush bolt. I don't really see this as an evolution of my design, just another tut showing people how to do my method... Oh well. 10 mags for all.

Last edited by aermotor; 06-17-2009 at 3:52 PM..
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2009, 3:49 PM
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both of you are in LA? well i'll give you 3 mags each to mod.. you guys turn them into 10rder and ill tell you which one i like better? and ill be the judge of who is greater?

btw i have the nuts and bolts.. just no wingnut.
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2009, 3:51 PM
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Lol.... it's the same thing!
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2009, 3:55 PM
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Well, the difference for me is that your design doesn't work for me. Why would I want to buy a 6" machine screw and THEN cut it down? Why not just go with a 5" that works perfect every time? The wingnut also kept jamming up the springs and can easily turn itself back up the machine screw UNLESS you add loctite - another needless step. I thought your design was overly complicated, so I went my own route. The counter-sinking is necessary with both designs if someone can't find a flush bolt and actually wants their baseplate to pop into place.

Obviously both designs work and people can choose to do either one or both! Yay us!
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Old 06-17-2009, 4:29 PM
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so no contest?
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Old 06-17-2009, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnehzekul View Post
so no contest?
I don't think a contest is necessary, just disseminating information here...
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Old 06-23-2009, 4:24 PM
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bump for teh infos
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Old 07-05-2009, 2:25 PM
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I used a combo of yorus and Aermotos mods, But aparently my parts are different than yours. The nylock nut would not fit rounded side down, so I had to file down some washers to be used as a spacer.

My Baseplate looks different than the one in your pics too, on one side of it the spring catch is raised up. I had a hell of a time fine tuning. a 1/4th turn on the nylock nut on the opposite end could result in a 10 rounder to 11 rounder... The mod was quick, but fine tuning took an hour of getting it just right, im a bit concerned with long term use.
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Old 07-05-2009, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
I used a combo of yorus and Aermotos mods, But aparently my parts are different than yours. The nylock nut would not fit rounded side down, so I had to file down some washers to be used as a spacer.

My Baseplate looks different than the one in your pics too, on one side of it the spring catch is raised up. I had a hell of a time fine tuning. a 1/4th turn on the nylock nut on the opposite end could result in a 10 rounder to 11 rounder... The mod was quick, but fine tuning took an hour of getting it just right, im a bit concerned with long term use.
Yeah, you're working with "M" revision PMAGs which have slightly different parts.
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