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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2009, 6:00 PM
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Default Gunshop FUD fest

Met a newbie to our sport today -- He had been tricked out with a mini-14 with an elaborate pistol grip, telescoping, side folding stock that "the guy in the store said was legal because the Mini wasn't an assault weapon."

Did I mention NO mag lock?

I told him to take the gun out of the stock as he drove it home. Reinstall the factory stock, and get here, learn the flow chart and start building an AR.
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Old 05-13-2009, 6:02 PM
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seen that also.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2009, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-NewYawker View Post
"the guy in the store said was legal because the Mini wasn't an assault weapon."
Awesome! Tell him to join CalGuns as well.

Glad to hear he listened, I have had some bad experiences trying to educate people. Even when I orally quoted various penal code sections.
*sigh*
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2009, 6:15 PM
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Heard that one 100 times over.... The best is when they say but this mini 14 is pre-ban....and the pistol grip stock was bought before the ban too so Im good.

Did you register it as an AW???

No...its just a mini 14.

Hope you hold onto the soap well.
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2009, 6:22 PM
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It is really pretty sad how bad some of the FFL's and dealers are about really knowing the laws that they are supposed to work under. I understand that CA gun laws are confused, obtuse, and downright misleading on purpose, but hey, it is your business. I also know that the DOJ likes to play games (either on purpose or by accident or by stupidity - actually both) and polute the already muddy waters even more.

I'm suprised that even more people don't get busted for illegal guns and features combos here in CA.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2009, 6:31 PM
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I wanted to get some clarification on a few things before I put some AK's up for sale to CA. I called a couple of FFL's in CA and for every call I got a different answer/interpretation.

Finally I got a name and called the DOJ myself. It is sad when an FFL working from home in Oklahoma is more willing to get the facts than a few guys who actually live in the state.

In fairness, one of the guys had it completely right and the others were part right.

Anything that would lead someone to commit a felony is not only irresponsible, it is down right criminal. Unfortunately for those buyers, the law does not readily accept ignorance as a defense.
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Old 05-13-2009, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
I wanted to get some clarification on a few things before I put some AK's up for sale to CA. I called a couple of FFL's in CA and for every call I got a different answer/interpretation.

Finally I got a name and called the DOJ myself.
the DOJ is the LAST place to get the correct info!!!!!
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Old 05-13-2009, 6:50 PM
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That's pretty gnarly... what if I that dude gets busted on felony charges? What's he supposed to do? He doesn't know better (but should) and just listens to the Gun Shop because they are supposed to be the authority on the subject and know this stuff... That's scary. Did he say what shop he bought it from?

I myself being VERY new to this all set out to read read and read until I understood it all before I put together my AR. It's very important to know yourself why things are legal.
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Old 05-13-2009, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAhighpowershooter View Post
the DOJ is the LAST place to get the correct info!!!!!
I called the DOJ for an additional opinion. Notice that the AK's I have for sale come with a Raddlock, which the DOJ will take no official position on. They confirmed that mag "parts kits" were legal, but also took no official position on people converting them to 10 rounds at home.

Basically, the conclusion I left with is that I can ship legally and it is the buyers responsibility to make it legal. This carries a degree of risk, if at some point they rule that mag locks or mag conversions are not legal.

Once I learned the law, read a bunch on here, and talked to a few people, I figured out that its not really all that hard.
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Old 05-13-2009, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
That's pretty gnarly... what if I that dude gets busted on felony charges? What's he supposed to do? He doesn't know better (but should) and just listens to the Gun Shop because they are supposed to be the authority on the subject and know this stuff... That's scary. Did he say what shop he bought it from?

I myself being VERY new to this all set out to read read and read until I understood it all before I put together my AR. It's very important to know yourself why things are legal.
but but but it's a mini14.
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:08 PM
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I introduced a guy to calguns today also, he was at ammo bros. An older man that was a very cool guy. He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders even though you guys would have attacked him for buying wolf for his AR
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:28 PM
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Thing is. Do you REALLY know the gun shop told him that? Different half truths could be there latently.
1. He is using that as a cop out thinking it will get him out of trouble.
2. Selective hearing. He could of asked someone at a gun shop if it was legal to buy such accessories. (it is obviously was) yet paid no attention if that person added that putting them on the rifle is illegal.

I have had customers ask me wierd questions in the past only to turn around and instantly say something else in the phone, "the dude just said it was ok." I'm like WTF?
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:35 PM
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which gun shop is this?

Quote:
He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders even though you guys would have attacked him for buying wolf for his AR
what's wrong with wolf?
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by supermario View Post
I introduced a guy to calguns today also, he was at ammo bros. An older man that was a very cool guy. He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders even though you guys would have attacked him for buying wolf for his AR
Use Wolf clean gun, no problem
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:06 PM
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wolf is always unfairly bashed.
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-NewYawker View Post
and start building an AR.
I understand the rest of it, but why did you tell him to start building an AR? Whats wrong with the Mini if he puts it into a legal configuration? Or is it just the inevitable "Mini's suck and AR's rule" thing?
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Old 05-14-2009, 6:09 AM
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I understand the rest of it, but why did you tell him to start building an AR? Whats wrong with the Mini if he puts it into a legal configuration? Or is it just the inevitable "Mini's suck and AR's rule" thing?
Understand: I told him to KEEP the mini in the original stock to have a "removable magazine" SA (he had some pre-ban hi-caps) but he WANTED a Pistol grip on a rifle, so he was willing to ALSO build an AR, and was looking into it.

I never recommend anyone get rid of a gun they already have, as long as its legal. Another point is he said he had friends with guns from the 80's who still haven't registered them as AWs, and said "screw the state."

THAT is even more frightening.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2009, 6:18 AM
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You would be surprised at how many people did not register their AW's when they had the chance to.

I did a range day for Gun Runners a while back and while at my booth, I had tons of people come up to me telling me about their AW's that they didn't register. They wanted to know if my grip would make it ok for them to use now.

I was just amazed at how many people were out there with illegal AW's and they didn't seem that concerned about it. Oh well.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2009, 7:12 AM
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I have a friend with 2 new unfired AR's. 1 ar-10 and 1 ar-15 that currently constitute AW's because of the features. He shot himself in the foot and didn't want to re-register because of fear that they were just going to be taken away after they did it. He figured he registered it when he bought them so why re-register it. Now i'm helping him take all the parts out of it and build new lowers to attach all the parts to.
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Old 05-14-2009, 7:40 AM
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you can say screw the state while getting screwed in prison. You wouldn't believe how often I get asked to sell without paperwork. Also, I question the "from my cold dead hands" crowd. Are they REALLY ready to die for this? Even if they go down in a shoot out the media will talk about their arsenal and paint them as a menace, giving more strength to the anti's. Our battle fields have to be the ballot box and the courts. I don't want any bans, but I would still rather have just a bolt gun than be dead or in prison
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Old 05-14-2009, 7:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
That's pretty gnarly... what if I that dude gets busted on felony charges? What's he supposed to do? He doesn't know better (but should) and just listens to the Gun Shop because they are supposed to be the authority on the subject and know this stuff... That's scary. Did he say what shop he bought it from?

I myself being VERY new to this all set out to read read and read until I understood it all before I put together my AR. It's very important to know yourself why things are legal.
Well unless the FFL is an approved AW dealer also I'm guessing right after they nad the newb for an un'RAW they'd go nad the dealer for selling AW's too.

Someone should drop by and fill the dealer in before he gets someone else and himself in deep doo.
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Old 05-14-2009, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
That's pretty gnarly... what if I that dude gets busted on felony charges? What's he supposed to do? He doesn't know better (but should) and just listens to the Gun Shop because they are supposed to be the authority on the subject and know this stuff... That's scary.
Never trust what you hear in a gun shop. You can come in and I can lie and tell you its OK to put a 10 inch upper on your AR at the range/home because its private property. Unless I do it for you nothing is going to happen to me.

Everyone needs to know the law before they do anything. Trusting someone else is just silly. I hear way to much bad info in this industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterMan View Post
You would be surprised at how many people did not register their AW's when they had the chance to.

I blame a huge part in that on gunshop FUD back they. When the AW thing first happened people going into gunshops were told not to register them by the gunshop employees. "You already did your part when you bought it" "They will come to your house and take it" "If you want to register don't do all of them" "Its illegal for them to ask that" "None of us are registering ours"

That crap was heard at 90% of stores during that time. If people were given the truth there would be at least 3 times the number of RAW's here.
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Old 05-14-2009, 9:19 AM
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California Gun Laws!!!

Making good people into criminals since 1989...
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-NewYawker View Post
Met a newbie to our sport today -- He had been tricked out with a mini-14 with an elaborate pistol grip, telescoping, side folding stock that "the guy in the store said was legal because the Mini wasn't an assault weapon."

Did I mention NO mag lock?

I told him to take the gun out of the stock as he drove it home. Reinstall the factory stock, and get here, learn the flow chart and start building an AR.
Good on you.

In defense of the non-initiate, it's hard to understand without someone or some tool to help explain what is and isn't an AW.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 5hundo View Post
California Gun Laws!!!

Making good people into criminals since 1989...
That is Sig material!
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  #26  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:47 AM
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Tell him to check this out as well... Planning to use it on my M1A with a Troy MCS

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ni+14+mag+lock
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Old 05-15-2009, 8:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 5hundo View Post
California Gun Laws!!!

Making good people into criminals since 1989...
Agreed.... sad huh? I wonder when the boys are going to get the court challenge rolling on this whole BS AW ban.
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Old 05-15-2009, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-NewYawker View Post
Met a newbie to our sport today -- He had been tricked out with a mini-14 with an elaborate pistol grip, telescoping, side folding stock that "the guy in the store said was legal because the Mini wasn't an assault weapon."

Did I mention NO mag lock?

I told him to take the gun out of the stock as he drove it home. Reinstall the factory stock, and get here, learn the flow chart and start building an AR.

I know someone that was about to buy a pistol grip stock for his Mini-14 in which the gunshop was more than happy to sell him without any advice. I told him he would have to chop the pistol grip off or find a bullet button type of mag lock device to be legal in CA.
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Last edited by JTROKS; 05-15-2009 at 9:46 AM..
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2009, 11:41 PM
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pistol grip bad with no mag lock or aw reg
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