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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

View Poll Results: Should a Felon (one time) ten years clean, get his rights again?
Yes, if he's paid his debt, and been an upstanding citizen, he deserves one more chance. 24 58.54%
No Way! He committed a Felony once, He's a bad seed. Never again will he touch a gun. 17 41.46%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-01-2009, 2:48 PM
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Default Can a Felon shoot a gun?

I know a felon can't own or possess a firearm....I also have a couple I'm friends with, he's an ex-con, off probation/parole.

What if I drive to the range with my gun and ammo, they take their car seperately and meet me there, can he shoot?

What if he stand three feet away and she shoots, is he legal?
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:50 PM
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Felon holding firearm = Felon in possession.
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:50 PM
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you answered your own question

"I know a felon can't own or possess a firearm"
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:52 PM
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I felon can shoot a gun. However, they may not shoot a gun.

Seriously though, your friend should know whether he/she is prohibited or not. If they aren't sure, I think a call to DOJ might be a good place to start.
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:56 PM
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A Felon standing 3 feet from me while I shoot and I maintain possession and control of the weapon = Felon not in legal deep doo doo. Why? The Felon is not in possession of the firearm. Ever. Now if, for some strange reason, we're contacted by Law Enforcement, we may have to run through the legal system to prove Felon never had possession/control. That's something I'd rather not have to do.
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:58 PM
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I guess I can tag onto this question. I have a good friend that stole some sheet metal from the company he worked for. He got a big F for that but I'm hearing that it is gone off his record now as he has payed the company back for what he took. I don't want to put myself or him in a position of getting in trouble so how do I verify someone is no longer a felon.
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:14 PM
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they took a felony conviction off his record for simply paying them back?
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:16 PM
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I'm not sure of the details, I'm hearing the info 3rd party. That's why I want to find out.
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:17 PM
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Really, a criminal conviction, even a felony will "drop off your record" if you pay the victim back. I doubt it, but again, this is California.

What amazes me is how many on this board report they have friends with criminal convictions and they want to pal around with and go shooting.
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:19 PM
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Not all felonies are violent or otherwise sketchy in nature. Some are for white collar crime and sometimes felonies are given out to people who, IMHO, didn't really deserve them or are otherwise being used as legal examples.

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Old 05-01-2009, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1A Rifleman View Post
Really, a criminal conviction, even a felony will "drop off your record" if you pay the victim back. I doubt it, but again, this is California.
This is in Utah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1A Rifleman View Post
What amazes me is how many on this board report they have friends with criminal convictions and they want to pal around with and go shooting.
He made a mistake, served his time and paid the company he stole from back. Do you really want to take someone's rights for LIFE for one stupid act?
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSDGuy View Post
Felon holding firearm = Felon in possession.
[/thread]

CSDGuy said it all right there.

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Originally Posted by oops View Post
they took a felony conviction off his record for simply paying them back?
Yeah, really. It doesn't work that way.

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Originally Posted by M1A Rifleman View Post
Really, a criminal conviction, even a felony will "drop off your record" if you pay the victim back. I doubt it, but again, this is California.
Doesn't matter what state, it doesn't work that way. He might be able to get it expunged at some point... maybe.
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Old 05-01-2009, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick View Post
This is in Utah.

He made a mistake, served his time and paid the company he stole from back. Do you really want to take someone's rights for LIFE for one stupid act?
Everyone has a differing opinion of what 'one stupid act' is. Mine maybe worse than yours, or not. But in the end, we all need to know what the consequences are for when you cross that line.
I think they call it a deterrent.
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Old 05-01-2009, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick View Post
This is in Utah.

He made a mistake, served his time and paid the company he stole from back. Do you really want to take someone's rights for LIFE for one stupid act?
I agree with the law. A felon is a felon so don't take your eyes off him. He does not make good decisions as he has demonstrated. The law takes that in to account thereby protecting the rest of us from his next bad decision. At least, his next mistake won't be with a weapon.
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Old 05-01-2009, 4:24 PM
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Short answer is NO.
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2009, 4:26 PM
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nope
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  #17  
Old 05-01-2009, 4:53 PM
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Felons shoot guns all the time...

They must not know about our "common sense" gun control laws here in the U.S..

"Common sense" tells us that if the felons knew they would be breaking the law when handling a firearm, then they would never go near one.

Perhaps we should start a campaign to educate felons about the federal laws restricting their possession of guns.

I mean, what felon is willing to risk his livelihood and reputation in the community over something as trivial as being in possession of a firearm? They have already gone through the legal system at least once - doubtful they will risk having to go through it again.



(I know, not a helpful answer to your specific question...)
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Old 05-01-2009, 5:29 PM
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Felons shooting guns is a big no-no. And the Feds take it VERY seriously. The penalties are severe, and since it's fed time, there's no time off for good behavior. One of the indoor ranges I go to has at least three of their rental guns out right now to the sheriff's department as evidence in such cases. People come in, rent a gun, and often don't even realize that some long-ago conviction still makes them illegal. Very, very bad consequences. Unless your friend has gone through the process of having his rights officially restored, he shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm unless he wants to spend a good portion of the rest of his life in a federal pen.
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Old 05-01-2009, 5:52 PM
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Felons shoot guns all the time...
They're usually the ones we read about in postings dealing with some nut firing an automatic weapon in an intersection.
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Old 05-01-2009, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Not all felonies are violent or otherwise sketchy in nature. Some are for white collar crime and sometimes felonies are given out to people who, IMHO, didn't really deserve them or are otherwise being used as legal examples.

Turby
You have to try pretty hard to get convicted of a felony in california. With all the wobblers, courts flexing straight felonies down to misdemeanors even when not allowed by statute, diversion, ect.

You dont catch a felony conviction like the common cold.
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Old 05-01-2009, 6:47 PM
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You know, for a bunch of guys that rely on a couple of ounces of metal to separate them from a felony firearms offense, some of you have some pretty absolute views about felons.
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Old 05-01-2009, 7:24 PM
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You know, for a bunch of guys that rely on a couple of ounces of metal to separate them from a felony firearms offense, some of you have some pretty absolute views about felons.
Are you referring to a police badge when you say "a couple ounces of metal"?
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Old 05-01-2009, 7:25 PM
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Are you referring to a police badge when you say "a couple ounces of metal"?
I'd have to bet he's referring to the bullet button.
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Old 05-01-2009, 7:28 PM
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If he's referring to a bullet button then it's an invalid argument. Using a lawful device (the bullet button) attached to an otherwise lawful machine (the gun, built to CA legal spec) in order to remain a lawful citizen (not a felon) and not deliberately break the law (like a felon did and often repeatedly does) does not make us "absolute" in our views.

If he's referring to a police badge, that's also an invalid argument. The police don't create felony convictions, the judge and jury do that.

Maybe he's referring to gold teef?

Last edited by BTF/PTM; 05-01-2009 at 7:30 PM..
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Old 05-01-2009, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BTF/PTM View Post
Using a lawful device (the bullet button) attached to an otherwise lawful machine (the gun, built to CA legal spec) in order to remain a lawful citizen (not a felon) and not deliberately break the law (like a felon did and often repeatedly does) does not make us "absolute" in our views.
The bullet button is very close to felony territory, and there are those in law enforcement that would love to put you up in front of a jury on a felony charge because of it.

Not all felons deliberately break the law. Not nearly all felonies should be illegal. Of course, I'm sure you do things like pay CA's Use Tax on every little out-of-state purchase. There are many laws that I'm sure 99% of the population doesn't even know exist that are felonies...
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Old 05-01-2009, 8:06 PM
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M.Sage caught my drift. I'm not trying to draw any equivalency here. Just saying that we are all on the hairy edge of what is legal. I am downright scared when I look at how many things we have criminalized in our society. I believe there was a time when it was appropriate to deny all felons access to firearms, but we keep adding new ways to become felons.

All it takes is for someone to leave their magnetic tool in their BB and who knows...
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Old 05-01-2009, 8:27 PM
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Don't hate me for asking, I'm asking geniunely; what types of felonies can you list that really shouldn't be considered felonies? Again, I'm asking geniunely cuz I really don't know. The worst crime I've ever been convicted of is speeding over 100mph, so I'm not well versed in the world of law and its corresponding representation.
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Old 05-01-2009, 8:32 PM
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Ok... chiming in...
Felon in possession of a gun at the firing range.... let's see... possible sentences... 16 months, 2 years or 3 years... PC 12021

However... last I looked... a Prop 36 processed felon can get the right to own/possess a long gun if probation is terminated/reduced to a misd. and dismissed....last I looked...a couple of years ago...

I have personally arrested lots of people for 12021... easy prison term in Kern...
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Old 05-01-2009, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTF/PTM View Post
Don't hate me for asking, I'm asking geniunely; what types of felonies can you list that really shouldn't be considered felonies? Again, I'm asking geniunely cuz I really don't know. The worst crime I've ever been convicted of is speeding over 100mph, so I'm not well versed in the world of law and its corresponding representation.
Well, anything that is victimless shouldn't be a felony.

The CA AW ban is one very obvious example: violate it and you're a felon. No way should this stuff even be illegal, let alone a felony. 99% or more of CA's weapons code, in fact.

"Sexting". If a 15 year old sends a naughty picture to another 15 year old, it is not child pornography!

NFA laws.

Think on it for a bit. If you read about a criminal sent up for a felony, think "now who is the victim in this case?" If you can't name one, it shouldn't be a felony, and probably shouldn't be illegal. If it falls under this category and not into this one, it should by no means be a felony.
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Old 05-01-2009, 8:40 PM
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ok let me adjust the question a little. I am a legal gun owner and am taking a trip up to NV to shoot with some friends and family. Every gun is doj California compliant and I know by myself I shouldn't have any issues. Well I have MS and sometimes get dizzy and cant drive. My friend is with me and offers to drive while I'm having a dizzy spell. He is a convicted felon and doesn't plan on shooting but wanted to go see the mutual friends. When he is driving my car for me with guns in the back is he in trouble?
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Old 05-01-2009, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
Well, anything that is victimless shouldn't be a felony.

The CA AW ban is one very obvious example: violate it and you're a felon. No way should this stuff even be illegal, let alone a felony. 99% or more of CA's weapons code, in fact.

"Sexting". If a 15 year old sends a naughty picture to another 15 year old, it is not child pornography!

NFA laws.

Think on it for a bit. If you read about a criminal sent up for a felony, think "now who is the victim in this case?" If you can't name one, it shouldn't be a felony, and probably shouldn't be illegal. If it falls under this category and not into this one, it should by no means be a felony.
Thanks for helping to answer my question I'll think on it more than a bit, as I said I don't know much about it and you've provided a nice starting point for my research.

What the hell is sexting?
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Old 05-01-2009, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
Well, anything that is victimless shouldn't be a felony.

The CA AW ban is one very obvious example: violate it and you're a felon. No way should this stuff even be illegal, let alone a felony. 99% or more of CA's weapons code, in fact.

"Sexting". If a 15 year old sends a naughty picture to another 15 year old, it is not child pornography!

NFA laws.

Think on it for a bit. If you read about a criminal sent up for a felony, think "now who is the victim in this case?" If you can't name one, it shouldn't be a felony, and probably shouldn't be illegal. If it falls under this category and not into this one, it should by no means be a felony.
I'd add drug posession, prostitution, assisted suicide...etc

I also take issue with hate crime enhancements (though I don't know if they can elevate a misdemeanor to a felony, and I don't support the underlying criminal activity)

Last edited by dreamerof1; 05-01-2009 at 9:14 PM..
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:46 PM
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You have to try pretty hard to get convicted of a felony in california. With all the wobblers, courts flexing straight felonies down to misdemeanors even when not allowed by statute, diversion, ect.

You dont catch a felony conviction like the common cold.
It is not uncommon in most states to use "diversion" programs for first time offenders for non-violent crimes including crimes that are felonies. This usually consists of a period of probation and perhaps some type of restitution (IE. paying back the person you robbed, paying court costs, paying fines...). If you complete the probation and all of the other requirements the conviction is removed from your record. But until that happens you have a felony record and once it has happened you are a former felon who has had your rights restored.

One other thing to note that no one has pointed out. If you know or have a reason to believe someone is a prohibited person and you hand them a gun (even one that is not loaded or even a single bullet) then you have committed a crime. So make sure you know what is going on with your friend before you loan him a gun at the range.

One other thing to note. In many states non-cartridge guns (IE. ball and cap revolvers and muzzle loading rifles) are not considered firearms and can be legally owned and used by those with felony records.

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Old 05-02-2009, 3:31 PM
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He made a mistake, served his time and paid the company he stole from back. Do you really want to take someone's rights for LIFE for one stupid act?
Yes.

Your judged by the company you keep.
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Old 05-02-2009, 5:06 PM
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Really, a criminal conviction, even a felony will "drop off your record" if you pay the victim back. I doubt it, but again, this is California.

What amazes me is how many on this board report they have friends with criminal convictions and they want to pal around with and go shooting.
More than likely the charges were dumbed down or dropped. I know someone who got arrested for a DWI - he waits 9 months, FINALLY goes to court, and when they get there the DA says "FOOLED YOU!" - case dismissed.
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Old 05-02-2009, 5:21 PM
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What the hell is sexting?
Google it!

Seriously, it's the MSM scare-name for when teenagers take pictures of themselves using their cell-phones and then email or MMS them to each other.

In many (all?) states, it's the act of transmitting or possessing salacious pictures of a minor that is in itself a crime (usually a serious felony). So, if a 15-year-old girl takes a topless picture of herself with her cell phone and sends it to her 15 year-old-boyfriend, she's guilty of creating and tracking in child pornography.

The legal theory behind all of this, I believe, is that pictures of nekkid (as opposed to naked) kids must imply that some kids are being sexually abused, and therefore they can criminalize trafficking in them as the trafficker is essentially an accessory to the sexual-abuse-of-minors that's the thing we *really* want to punish.

Of course, when they passed those laws, they didn't figure on teenagers with cell phones, and there's now at least some effort to roll these laws back a little since no one really meant to make 15 year olds felons (and add them to the sex offenders lists) for taking naughty pictures of themselves.
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Old 05-02-2009, 5:28 PM
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Question? Do you want felons shooting next to you? Obviously they make bad choices and hopefully one of their bad choices won't happen while they are shooting weapons illegally.

The difference between people exercising their rights as an American and those that violate the laws for other reasons is great. Stealing sheet metal for instance and receiving a felony that couldn't be plead down to a misdemeanor, should not be in possesion of a firearm. Next time he will use the firearm while commiting a theft. Slippery slope? maybe but there is a big difference between a thief and someone that is trying to follow the law and makes a mistake. More than likely, the one trying to follow the law that misinterpreted it will not plead guilty to a felony.
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Old 05-02-2009, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
Well, anything that is victimless shouldn't be a felony.

The CA AW ban is one very obvious example: violate it and you're a felon.
Can you show me one case of someone being convicted of a felony for violating the cali AW ban who was not commiting other non-gun felonies at the same time? Cause every case I'm familiar with has been plead down to a misdemanor or handled as a civil infraction by surrendoring the rifle.

I stand by my statement. Its damn hard to get convicted of a felony in california.
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Old 05-02-2009, 7:22 PM
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HondaMasterTech HondaMasterTech is offline
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If the individual is restricted from handguns and you give it to him to borrow, will YOU get in trouble? Id be more concerned about that.
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Old 05-02-2009, 11:20 PM
cousinkix1953 cousinkix1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by GaryV View Post
Felons shooting guns is a big no-no. And the Feds take it VERY seriously. The penalties are severe, and since it's fed time, there's no time off for good behavior. One of the indoor ranges I go to has at least three of their rental guns out right now to the sheriff's department as evidence in such cases. People come in, rent a gun, and often don't even realize that some long-ago conviction still makes them illegal. Very, very bad consequences. Unless your friend has gone through the process of having his rights officially restored, he shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm unless he wants to spend a good portion of the rest of his life in a federal pen.
I tipped off the owner of a range about a convicted felon shooting on their premisis. He might still be going there if I hadn't done it. Nobody really wants one of those Aryian Nations idiots with neo-Nazi tattoos shooting their guns...
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