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  #1  
Old 07-11-2017, 4:55 PM
capt14k capt14k is offline
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Default Persian Mauser Info Request

Can anyone in detail provide information and ideally pictures on all the models of Persian Mauser? Details such as differences, which parts should be matching, rail markings, other part stampings, etc. I believe the models are, but I'm not 100% certain:

Czech Made 98/29 1309 Long

d) Persian Mauser M1309

1.) Complete Farsi serial no. - Receiver, left side
2.) Complete Farsi serial no. - On top of bolt handle
3.) Complete Farsi serial no. - Right side of butt stock
4.) Complete Farsi serial no. - Bayonet, on pommel

Persian 98/29 Model 1309 Long
Czech vz24 Intermediate Model 1317 (Short)
Czech M30 Model 1317 Carbine
FN-1924 Carbine
Persian M49
German 98/22

I have Mauser Military Rifles of The World, but information does not seem complete.


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Last edited by capt14k; 07-12-2017 at 2:30 PM..
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Old 07-11-2017, 5:12 PM
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CZ made 98/29 above Persian M49 below




CZ made 98/29





Persian made M49



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Old 07-12-2017, 6:36 AM
Sutcliffe Sutcliffe is offline
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Default Wow. SVT-40

Seriously fantastic pieces you have there.
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  #4  
Old 07-12-2017, 6:46 AM
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The only Persian Mausers I know of are the two variants SVT-40 posted above. I don't have the carbine, but I have two of the long rifles. Fit and finish that surpasses all other 8mm Mauser variants that I have seen.
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Old 07-12-2017, 9:04 AM
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The Model 30 was a carbine version of the Model 98/29 made in BRNO for the Persians/Iranians. It uses a receiver similar to the 98/29 (having the BRNO lion (Some people refer to the lion crest on Persian made Mausers as the "Cowardly Lion"), the only difference being the sidewall translates to Carbine Model 1309 made in the Brno factory) and a similar style stock (no rear sling mount in cut into the stock). However, it shares the same barrel length as the M49 (a carbine which was made in Persia on machinery purchased from the Czechs) and have bent bolts. The original rear sights on the M30 are always in Farsi while the M49 have rear sights in both Farsi and Arabic.

More pics of the M30: http://milsurpcollector.com/30.html

As for your original list, I think the 98/29 only comes in the "long" version (Think GEW 98, 49" length/29" barrel). I haven't seen a 98/29 in the K98 or K98k length (44"/24"). Also, I don't think the Czechs made the 98/29 for their own army as the VZ-24 was already in service.

Persian 98/22s do exist. They have CZ BRNO on the ring and Czech proofs, but they should have the Farsi marked rear sight. The 98/22 was adopted by the Czech army immediately after the formation of Czechslokia from the Fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Primarily, the Czechs purchased German GEW 98s (Germany had to dispose of these rifles in accordance with the Treaty of Versailles) while they developed the BRNO plant. The first vz 98/22s were built from parts received from the Germans, so German GEW 98 parts occasionally turn up on early these rifles. 98/22s that are proofed with the E22/23 on the left side of the receiver were accepted into the Czech army and were sold to Turkey and other countries after they were replaced. There's a lot of confusion about 98/22s, so some of my info might be wrong. There were 40,000 vz 98/22s produced by the Czechs for Czech service (Blocks A-D, 0-9999, 10,000 per block) and 10,000 directly for Turkey (E block). Supposedly Turkey bought 30,000 of the 40,000 rifles from the A-D blocks, so it may be possible that Persia purchased some of the 98/22s. Turkey did use Farsi and Arabic on the rear sights. The Turkish ones have crescents usually on the rear sight and bolt, which is the main identifier.

Supposedly, BRNO did deliver some VZ-24s to Persia before falling to the Germans, so those also do exist. They are marked like the 98/29.

Link to thread with Persian VZ-24 info: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...VZ-24-question

Size comparison from my Mauser collection
Top: Persian 98/29
Mid: German K98k
Bottom: Persian M49



Both of mine are all matching (receiver, bolt, stock) and only the 98/29 is import marked (Samco).

As for my 98/29 stock, does any know what is written under the serial number? Looking for more history of this gun.

Last edited by ltong29; 07-12-2017 at 9:53 AM..
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:42 PM
capt14k capt14k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltong29 View Post
The Model 30 was a carbine version of the Model 98/29 made in BRNO for the Persians/Iranians. It uses a receiver similar to the 98/29 (having the BRNO lion (Some people refer to the lion crest on Persian made Mausers as the "Cowardly Lion"), the only difference being the sidewall translates to Carbine Model 1309 made in the Brno factory) and a similar style stock (no rear sling mount in cut into the stock). However, it shares the same barrel length as the M49 (a carbine which was made in Persia on machinery purchased from the Czechs) and have bent bolts. The original rear sights on the M30 are always in Farsi while the M49 have rear sights in both Farsi and Arabic.

More pics of the M30: http://milsurpcollector.com/30.html

As for your original list, I think the 98/29 only comes in the "long" version (Think GEW 98, 49" length/29" barrel). I haven't seen a 98/29 in the K98 or K98k length (44"/24"). Also, I don't think the Czechs made the 98/29 for their own army as the VZ-24 was already in service.

Persian 98/22s do exist. They have CZ BRNO on the ring and Czech proofs, but they should have the Farsi marked rear sight. The 98/22 was adopted by the Czech army immediately after the formation of Czechslokia from the Fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Primarily, the Czechs purchased German GEW 98s (Germany had to dispose of these rifles in accordance with the Treaty of Versailles) while they developed the BRNO plant. The first vz 98/22s were built from parts received from the Germans, so German GEW 98 parts occasionally turn up on early these rifles. 98/22s that are proofed with the E22/23 on the left side of the receiver were accepted into the Czech army and were sold to Turkey and other countries after they were replaced. There's a lot of confusion about 98/22s, so some of my info might be wrong. There were 40,000 vz 98/22s produced by the Czechs for Czech service (Blocks A-D, 0-9999, 10,000 per block) and 10,000 directly for Turkey (E block). Supposedly Turkey bought 30,000 of the 40,000 rifles from the A-D blocks, so it may be possible that Persia purchased some of the 98/22s. Turkey did use Farsi and Arabic on the rear sights. The Turkish ones have crescents usually on the rear sight and bolt, which is the main identifier.

Supposedly, BRNO did deliver some VZ-24s to Persia before falling to the Germans, so those also do exist. They are marked like the 98/29.

Link to thread with Persian VZ-24 info: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...VZ-24-question

Size comparison from my Mauser collection
Top: Persian 98/29
Mid: German K98k
Bottom: Persian M49



Both of mine are all matching (receiver, bolt, stock) and only the 98/29 is import marked (Samco).

As for my 98/29 stock, does any know what is written under the serial number? Looking for more history of this gun.
Yes 98/29 only comes in the long variation.

The number written under the Persian number denotes English Police use post War. I have to find the exact info. Mine has it as well.

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  #7  
Old 07-12-2017, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
Czech 98/29
Persian 98/29 Model 1309 Long
I got confused since 98/29 was listed twice. I don't think the Czechs issued 98/29s to the Czech army. They did issue 98/22s. By the time they were making vz 98/29s for the Persians, the Czechs had already adopted the vz-24.

Cool info on the stock markings!
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Old 07-12-2017, 2:21 PM
capt14k capt14k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltong29 View Post
I got confused since 98/29 was listed twice. I don't think the Czechs issued 98/29s to the Czech army. They did issue 98/22s. By the time they were making vz 98/29s for the Persians, the Czechs had already adopted the vz-24.

Cool info on the stock markings!
Yes that is how I understand it as well. I believe only Persians bought 98/29 rifles new.

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Old 07-12-2017, 2:33 PM
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From my friend Thomas (7x57) in Germany regarding the Arabic (standard) numbers on the butt stock.

Persian police forces (under British command) during WW II, when England held occupied the southern part of Iran. The number in western digits on the buttstock is an indicator for this – mine also has such a number, albeit on the opposite side. I once read that the British took these rifles with them when they left Iran after the war and stored them in an arsenal in then British India, later Pakistan, from where they later (AFAIK in the 1990s) found their way to the US, being imported by SAMCO. Even mine is such a SAMCO import (having SAMCO stamping on the barrel under the wood), which obviously was re-sold to the German importer Frankonia afterwards.

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Old 07-12-2017, 2:38 PM
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Pics of my Czech Made 98/29 later used by British Persian Police Forces.




















Last edited by capt14k; 07-12-2017 at 4:44 PM..
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2017, 3:33 PM
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The 98/29 is to a garden variety 8mm Mauser rifle

As a Finn M39 is to a 91/30
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Old 07-12-2017, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
The 98/29 is to a garden variety 8mm Mauser rifle

As a Finn M39 is to a 91/30
So you mean the 98/29 was an upgrade to the 98/22 like the M39 was an upgrade to the 91/30? Also the 98/29 was only made for one nation like the M/39?

I'm not positive both statements are correct so they are questions more than statements.

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Last edited by capt14k; 07-12-2017 at 4:57 PM..
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Old 07-12-2017, 7:14 PM
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So if my history lesson is correct, a sequence of events lead to the 98/29.
1. 1918: Austro-Hungarian Empire dissolves at the end of WW1
2. 1918: Czechoslovakia is formed, acquiring CZ BRNO
3. 1918-1922: Czechs buy German Gewehr 98 rifles. Czechs begin making 98/22 to equip the Czechoslovakian army. No-letter block was made primarily from German parts. Blocks A-D (10000 rifles per block) were issued to the Czech army. 1927: Block E (10000 rifles) were sold directly to the Turks.
4. 1923-1924: Czechs begin development of VZ-23, settling on the VZ-24.
5. 1924: The VZ-24 becomes the standard in the Czech army. The 98/22 is phased out. 30,000 of the 40,000 are sold to Turkey and the rest to other countries (Possibly Persia).
6. 1925: Reza Shah comes to power in Iran and begins reforming the Iranian Armed Forces.
7. 1929-1930: CZ BRNO, being one of the premier arms manufacturer of the time (along the lines of DWM and FN), is contracted to manufacture rifles (98/29), intermediate rifles (vz-24), and cavalry carbines (Model 30).
8. 1938: Czechoslovakia is annexed by Germany.
9. Post-WW2 (~1949): Persia establishes Mosalsal-sazi in Tehran with help from the reinstated Czechoslovakia and BRNO. They produce the Model 49 carbine.

I believe the 98/29 resembles the vz-24 more than the 98/22. Some of the 98/22s had the "Lange Vizier" (Think Gew 98 sights) instead of the more modern tangent sights.

Last edited by ltong29; 07-12-2017 at 7:16 PM..
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Old 07-12-2017, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
So you mean the 98/29 was an upgrade to the 98/22 like the M39 was an upgrade to the 91/30? Also the 98/29 was only made for one nation like the M/39?

I'm not positive both statements are correct so they are questions more than statements.

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BR was referring to quality and fit rather than completely different models I assume.

The Czech 98/22 and the Persian (Czech) 98/29 share a multitude of similarities, and are pretty much the same rifle specification wise. Differences such as Farsi markings, Persian crest, front sight and additional sling swivel are present on the Persian contract models. The finish is absolutely superb on the Czech produced Persian rifles, I own one of the "unissued" ones and it's absolutely magnificent. SVT40's pictures are a very good representation of the difference in quality between Czech and domestic Persian production, pay close attention to the lion rollmark. The receiver address (where many of us see "mod 98" etc) is different on Czech vs Persian production, seen in SVT40's pictures.
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Old 08-10-2017, 7:59 PM
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Picked up a Persian M30 so I thought I would share some pics.

Rifle Left

Rifle Right

Crest

Crest Comparison (M30 on left, M49 on right)

Serial on left side of receiver (288-1)

Receiver wall

Markings on right side of receiver

Bolt serial

Markings under bolt
Interestingly, the stock isn't numbered leading me to believe that it was either replaced or BRNO stopped numbering stocks. Since this rifle was in the 2nd block of M30s (I'm basing this off of the fact that the serial is -1), BRNO might have neglected to mark the stock to expedite production. The stock is correct to the M30. Very pleased with this rifle.
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Old 08-10-2017, 8:24 PM
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Congrats Itong. You'll have to compare it to your M49 on a range trip and let us know which one you like better.
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Old 08-11-2017, 4:27 AM
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I have an 90%blue 90% wood, 98% bore Persian Mauser made by Czech Bruno.

Gun is unfired but bore cleaned since I bought it from I believe Samco 25 years ago.

Still has importers tags. Up for sale in collectors forum










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Old 08-11-2017, 5:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
The only Persian Mausers I know of are the two variants SVT-40 posted above. I don't have the carbine, but I have two of the long rifles. Fit and finish that surpasses all other 8mm Mauser variants that I have seen.
Early Persians were model 1895's I believe from Lowe and DVM. I think I read some OVS blockade guns made it to Persia, but I have to read up on that.

There was also a small FN contract in the 20's if I remember correctly, let me get out the books and check.
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Old 08-11-2017, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Early Persians were model 1895's I believe from Lowe and DVM. I think I read some OVS blockade guns made it to Persia, but I have to read up on that.

There was also a small FN contract in the 20's if I remember correctly, let me get out the books and check.
FN-1924 I listed in OP. Still would like to know which parts were matching.

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Old 08-11-2017, 5:44 AM
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Ah yes, the first Persian contract Mauser was an M1895, not related to any Chilean contract or OVS, I was wrong. They bought them in 1900-1905 and the rifle was in service until 1924. Very rare. Only one I have ever seen is a picture in Ball's book, and I have never heard it mentioned other than in Ball's book.
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