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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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Old 08-30-2016, 11:51 AM
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Default Oregon Arms Collectors 2016 August Show

Oregon Arms Collectors has monthly gun shows in Portland, and every August they have a larger 2-day show that has sellers and exhibitors from across Oregon and from some nearby states. I went to the show last Saturday and saw some things I hadn't seen before.

Everyone is familiar with the M1 and M1A1 Thompson submachine gun and the M3 "grease gun" submachine gun, but what happened to the M2 that should have come between M1 and M3?



The M2 submachine gun shown above is one of only two that are in the NFA registry. Link to image of information http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/t...y.jpg~original

There was also this M3 with a rare 9mm conversion used by the OSS.



Another unusual submachine gun is the Australian Owen Gun.

Quote:
The Owen Gun, which was known officially as the Owen Machine Carbine, was an Australian submachine gun designed by Evelyn (Evo) Owen in 1939. The Owen was the only entirely Australian-designed and main service submachine gun of World War II and was used by the Australian Army from 1943 until the mid-1960s.

Owen, an inventor from Wollongong, was 24 years old in July 1939 when he demonstrated his prototype .22 calibre "Machine Carbine" to Australian Army ordnance officers at Victoria Barracks in Sydney. The gun was rejected for two reasons. The first was because the Australian army, at the time, did not recognise the value of submachine guns. The second was the basic construction of the prototype was completely unsuited as a military weapon, especially as it lacked a proper trigger or any safety device, was of small calibre, and the "magazine" was effectively a giant revolver cylinder which could not be exchanged to reload. Following the outbreak of war, Owen joined the Australian Army as a private.

In September 1940, Owen's neighbour, Vincent Wardell, discovered Owen's prototype in a sugar bag. Wardell was manager of a large steel products factory at Port Kembla. He showed it to Owen's father who was distressed at his son’s carelessness, but explained the history of the weapon. Wardell was impressed by the simplicity of Owen's design. Wardell arranged to have Owen transferred to the Army Inventions Board, to re-commence work on the gun. The army continued to view the weapon in a negative light, but the government took an increasingly favourable view.

The prototype was equipped with a "magazine" which consisted of a steel ring drilled with holes for .22 cartridges, and this was revolved through the action using the power of a gramophone spring. This arrangement later gave way to a top-mounted box magazine. This better allowed shooting while prone.

The choice of calibre took some time to be settled. As large quantities of Colt .45 ACP cartridges were available; it was decided to adopt the Owen Gun for it. Official trials were organised, and the John Lysaght factory made three versions in 9×19mm, .38-200 and .45 ACP. Sten and Thompson submachine guns were used as benchmarks. As part of the testing, all of the guns were immersed in mud and covered with sand to simulate the harshest environments in which they would be used. The Owen was the only gun that still operated after the treatment. Although the test showed the Owen's capability, the army could not decide on a calibre, and it was only after intervention from the higher levels of government that the army ordered the 9×19mm variant.

During the gun's life, its reliability earned it the nickname "Digger's Darling" by Australian troops and it was rumoured to be highly favoured by US troops. General Douglas MacArthur proposed placing an order for some 45,000.

Although it was somewhat bulky, the Owen became very popular with soldiers because of its reliability. It was so successful that it was also ordered by the United States and New Zealand. New Zealanders fighting in the Guadacanal and Solomon Islands campaigns swapped their Thompson submachine guns for Owens, as they found the Australian weapons to be more reliable.

The Owen was later used by Australian troops in the Korean and Vietnam Wars, particularly the scouts in infantry sections. It remained a standard weapon of the Australian Army until the mid-1960s, when it was replaced by the F1 submachine gun. The gun was also used in Malaya by British troops, and was among their favourites for jungle fighting.




The Smith & Wesson Collectors Association had a nice display of S&W revolvers used by the US military.



The Model 1899 and Model 1902 chambered in 38 Long Colt were used by the Army and Navy to supplement the Colt New Army & Navy revolvers chambered in the same cartridge. After the poor performance of the 38 Long Colt during the Philippine-American War the military went back to .45 caliber handguns, culminating in the M1911.



There was also a rare M13 Aircrewman revolver at the show. Because they had aluminum cylinders they were intended to be used only with special M41 low pressure .38 Special ammo. They were unsafe when used with normal .38 Special ammo. Most were recalled and destroyed by the government to prevent injuries.



Quote:
When stocks of M41 special ball, a low-powered round that pushed a 130-grain jacketed round nosed bullet grew scarce, users loaded their aluminum guns with full power stuff. This turned a couple of them into small hand grenades and kabooms were quickly reported. In October 1959, both the Colts and the Smiths were recalled to their depots and crushed, their frames deemed unsafe.

To quote the USAF order at the time, “Because of the peculiarities of the M13 revolver, i.e., requirement for special ammunition, limited use and potential danger if used for other than the purpose for which it was designed, all M13 revolvers excess to Air Force requirements will be mutilated to prevent further use as a weapon. Residue will be disposed of as scrap.”
More info http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2...ircrewman.html

Speaking of US military .45 handguns, there was a display of those:




Last edited by Milsurp Collector; 08-30-2016 at 9:56 PM..
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:51 AM
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Display of early production M1 Carbines




SKS carbines from various countries




A collector who specializes in Czech firearms had a display of VZ-33 carbines and the Nazi version, the G33/40 used by the Gebirgsjäger mountain troops, and his collection of VZ-27 pistols.





The High Standard Collectors Association had a large display:




High Standard Model Ten semiauto police shotguns, made in the late 1960's:

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Old 08-30-2016, 11:52 AM
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Colt metallic cartridge conversions




Trench knives






Brass knuckle collection (for sale)






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Old 08-30-2016, 11:52 AM
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Japanese body armor




While there were many not-for-sale displays most of the items at the show were for sale. I didn't see any beef jerky for sale.









There are a couple of Colt 1902 pistols in the foreground. There were about half a dozen Colt 1902's for sale at the show, as well as other early Colt semiauto pistols.



Arisaka Type 99 sniper, Type 44 carbine, and Type 2 paratrooper rifle:



European .25 ACP pistols for sale:





Slideshow http://s625.photobucket.com/user/mil...lectors%202016

If you are able to travel to Portland Oregon in late August it's a nice little show to attend. The August 2-day show is always held at the Holiday Inn Portland Airport so it's convenient to stay there while attending the show.

Last edited by Milsurp Collector; 08-30-2016 at 11:41 PM..
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:54 AM
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Wow, some great items in the photos! I hope to get out to a show soon.
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
While there were many not-for-sale displays most of the items at the show were for sale. I didn't see any beef jerky for sale.
Lame! How can they call that a gun show when there is no beef jerky?!?!

Seriously though, that show looks amazing, great photos OP, thanks for posting!
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Old 08-30-2016, 1:20 PM
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Nice report and great pictures - thank you - !
Particularly like the collection of US knuckle-guard fighting knives.

I enjoy shopping in Oregon.

I was curious about that Hyde-Inland M2 SMG - here is some info. I found on-line.
There was this Hyde-Inland M2 for sale recently - https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=17&t=282554
Then also the one in the museum - http://www.historicalfirearms.info/p...hyde-m2-is-the
Then the one at the Aberdeen proving grounds - in thread - http://www.machinegunboards.com/foru...howtopic=17607
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Last edited by pitfighter; 08-30-2016 at 1:50 PM..
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Old 08-30-2016, 1:30 PM
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amazing history there. Thanks for sharing pictures.
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Old 08-30-2016, 3:48 PM
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Thanks for sharing OP. I enjoyed the photos. Now that I have a C&R license, most of the firearms I acquire will likely be at out of state shows such as this and gun shops in neighboring states. I was in Oregon early June, but I did not see anything I wanted more than the person who already had it.
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Old 08-30-2016, 4:02 PM
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Now THAT is a Gun Show!
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Old 08-30-2016, 8:14 PM
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Thanks for going through all of the effort Milsurp, great photos of some interesting stuff! Nice show.
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Old 08-30-2016, 8:21 PM
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Very cool gun show. That's the way they all should be! Thanks for sharing and posting up all of the great pics.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:23 PM
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The way it use to be... Thanks for sharing, Milsurp!
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Old 08-31-2016, 6:53 AM
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Wow, very cool stuff - thanks for posting!
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