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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-05-2009, 3:14 PM
Alphahookups Alphahookups is offline
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Default Potentially Buying a House within 1000ft of school

What do I need to know if we do get the house? I know there are stricter rules when you live that close to a school, but I was hoping you guys could clarify or at least point me in the right direction for finding the information.

Thanks guys,

Brian
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  #2  
Old 04-05-2009, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Alphahookups View Post
What do I need to know if we do get the house? I know there are stricter rules when you live that close to a school, but I was hoping you guys could clarify or at least point me in the right direction for finding the information.

Thanks guys,

Brian
I guess you could read 626.9 and decide whether or not you want to face felony charges if you ever walked off your property without first locking your firearm in a fully enclosed secure container.
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Old 04-05-2009, 4:02 PM
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Thanks! That's a start.

Is that the only statute that applies to school zones. Lets say in some crazy life I got a CCW in this state and live within 1000ft of a school, do I have to lock the pistol when leaving and returning home?
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Old 04-05-2009, 4:07 PM
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Actually, I was thinking of bringing this same topic up. My reading of Machtinger's book is that even long guns have to be locked up in a school zone, but the consensus at a recent MC meeting was that there was an exception for "normal transport" which would mean unlocked & unloaded is OK while passing through.

One of us might be confusing state vs. federal regs, but what's the answer?

7x57
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I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
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  #5  
Old 04-05-2009, 4:39 PM
Alphahookups Alphahookups is offline
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This was the best I could find relating to Concealed Carry...and this if from a 2007 PDF,

"Firearms on School Grounds
It is unlawful for any person to possess or bring a firearm upon the grounds of, into, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or a campus of the University of California, California State University, or California community colleges. (Penal Code § 626.9.)"

Exception:
"Any person authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Penal Code section 12050."

So I guess that means if I ever got a CCW permit, I would be able to carry, but otherwise I need to be careful.
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2009, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
Actually, I was thinking of bringing this same topic up. My reading of Machtinger's book is that even long guns have to be locked up in a school zone, but the consensus at a recent MC meeting was that there was an exception for "normal transport" which would mean unlocked & unloaded is OK while passing through.

One of us might be confusing state vs. federal regs, but what's the answer?

7x57
State Law allows for the transportation of long guns through school zones without having to be locked up.

Federal Law requires the long guns to be locked up when withing 1,000 feet of school property.

CHP pulls you over, probably going to not be a problem with long guns unlocked.

DEA, FBI, CIA, BATFE, or any other Fed pulls you over and you have long guns unlocked, you got the potential for major problems.
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  #7  
Old 04-05-2009, 5:17 PM
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Thanks for the info!
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  #8  
Old 04-05-2009, 5:39 PM
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Best advice have the gun locked when you step out of your house.

Maybe this is a dumb question but is there a way to challenge that law since if school is not in session there is no threat. I am sure it has been tried just never heard of a case at least off the top of my head.
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  #9  
Old 04-05-2009, 5:45 PM
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In some ways this is SUCH a BS unclarified law that I have to worry about every day..I CANNOT go ANYWHERE in ANY direction WITHOUT coming within 1000' of a school..I am surrounded by them even I believe within my own garage and house...so technically I can be busted for being in my gagrage CLEANING my fire arms..

Not to mention the fact that SUV's dont have 'trunks' that are separated from the passenger compartment and some LEOs and PD's dont consider a locked case in the back of a SUV to be good enough...

It is a 'fun' place we live in.

Sorry did not mean to 'jack but thought I would mention this because depending where you live....this issue on vehicles can come up also.

How about if you have to protect yourself IN your home and the house IS within 1000' ...will you be busted by some wacked out DA(??????)-could happen...'yes we understand you were protecting yourself BUT......
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  #10  
Old 04-05-2009, 6:02 PM
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Read parts in bold.

Penal Code 626.9
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.

(3) When the person possessing the firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or safety. This subdivision may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. Upon a trial for violating subdivision (b), the trier of a
fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.
(4) When the person is exempt from the prohibition against carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e), or (h) of Section 12027.
(d) Except as provided in subdivision (b), it shall be unlawful for any person, with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge, or attempt to discharge, a firearm in a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e).
The prohibition contained in this subdivision does not apply to the discharge of a firearm to the extent that the conditions of paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) are satisfied.
(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
(2) "Firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in Section 12001.
(3) "Locked container" has the same meaning as that term is given in subdivision (c) of Section 12026.1.
(4) "Concealed firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in Sections 12025 and 12026.1.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
(j) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
(k) This section does not require that notice be posted regarding the proscribed conduct.
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  #11  
Old 04-05-2009, 6:10 PM
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According to the Riverside County District Attorney's Offices: www.rivcoda.org/Brochures/SchoolCrimesGuide.pdf

PC §626.9(b). Possession of firearm in school zone (b) Possess firearm / in a place one knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone. F On school grounds: 0-5 years in juvenile facility; or W Within 1,000 feet from school grounds: 0-5 years in juvenile facility. School zone: On grounds, or within 1,000 feet from grounds, of K-12 public or private school.

This section does not apply to otherwise lawful possession of a firearm in a residence or place of business or on private property, not part of school grounds. This section does not apply to active or honorably retired peace officers; armed security guards; military members performing duties; and persons licensed to carry concealable firearms.

F.A.S. Out
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  #12  
Old 04-05-2009, 8:07 PM
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Thanks guys
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2009, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever-A-Soldier View Post
According to the Riverside County District Attorney's Offices: www.rivcoda.org/Brochures/SchoolCrimesGuide.pdf

PC §626.9(b). Possession of firearm in school zone (b) Possess firearm / in a place one knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone. F On school grounds: 0-5 years in juvenile facility; or W Within 1,000 feet from school grounds: 0-5 years in juvenile facility. School zone: On grounds, or within 1,000 feet from grounds, of K-12 public or private school.

This section does not apply to otherwise lawful possession of a firearm in a residence or place of business or on private property, not part of school grounds. This section does not apply to active or honorably retired peace officers; armed security guards; military members performing duties; and persons licensed to carry concealable firearms.

F.A.S. Out
Looks like that guide is for sentenceing kids who bring guns to school.
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Old 04-05-2009, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KylaGWolf View Post
Best advice have the gun locked when you step out of your house.

Maybe this is a dumb question but is there a way to challenge that law since if school is not in session there is no threat. I am sure it has been tried just never heard of a case at least off the top of my head.
There's no threat even when school is in session...
Just another feel good law that does no good.
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2009, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Alphahookups View Post
Thanks! That's a start.

Is that the only statute that applies to school zones. Lets say in some crazy life I got a CCW in this state and live within 1000ft of a school, do I have to lock the pistol when leaving and returning home?
With CCW, no. That even makes it legal to bring your handgun on school property, not that the school would be in favor of that.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_School_Zones
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 04-05-2009, 9:24 PM
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What do you guys think of this scenario. A guy has a handgun in a locked container inside his vehicle and parks in the school parking lot to pick up his kid or attend a parent/teacher conference. Legal?
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:58 PM
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What do you guys think of this scenario. A guy has a handgun in a locked container inside his vehicle and parks in the school parking lot to pick up his kid or attend a parent/teacher conference. Legal?
It be legal.

Penal Code 626.9
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
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Old 04-06-2009, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
With CCW, no. That even makes it legal to bring your handgun on school property, not that the school would be in favor of that.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e_School_Zones
Thank you
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Old 04-06-2009, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledReaper View Post
In some ways this is SUCH a BS unclarified law that I have to worry about every day..I CANNOT go ANYWHERE in ANY direction WITHOUT coming within 1000' of a school..I am surrounded by them even I believe within my own garage and house...so technically I can be busted for being in my gagrage CLEANING my fire arms..

Not to mention the fact that SUV's dont have 'trunks' that are separated from the passenger compartment and some LEOs and PD's dont consider a locked case in the back of a SUV to be good enough...

...
I believe you believe incorrectly. Your garage is on private property, which is specifically exempted from 626.9.
I'm not sure what the issue is with SUV's and trunks, as the code says in "a locked container" OR "within the locked trunk..." It seems to me that having an unloaded firearm in a locked container on the passenger seat is legal. It only needs to be in the trunk if it is not in a lcoked container of some kind. I don't see the requirement for both conditions.
We can all agree that this law is ill-conceived, but let's not misinterpret it and make it seem worse than it is.

(As always, I am not a lawyer, and I don't speak legalese, so I could very well be wrong about everything I think I know in life. Enjoy)
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Old 04-06-2009, 8:02 PM
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Living in proximity to a school, I seriously suggest that you contact the school to see when they have special events.

Like the first Wednesday of each month, when the parents all go to school with the kiddies. And in the process, they absolutely screw up all streetside parking in the whole friggin' zip code!!! Seriously, traffic patterns are important, especially if streetside parking is tight. Lucky me, with the first stretch of flat curbside parking within walking distance of the school.

BTW, parents are really aggressive going for that last spot. We've even had them move our garbage cans on trash day, to where the garbage truck would just pass us by! Ripped that parent a new one! Haven't seen her since.
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Old 04-06-2009, 8:42 PM
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Its hard to describe. The location isn't really close to the school from a traditional sense. It's probably 2000 linear street feet from the school, but if you were to create a 1000ft radius from the school, it would be just inside the boundary.

I don't have to worry too much about parking. I was really just concerned with the gun laws :P
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Old 04-06-2009, 9:04 PM
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So your gun must be locked (cable lock or locked container) while walking out to your car, but once you place it into the trunk then it's no longer required to be locked (since the truck itself counts as a locked container?) And this is NOT required for rifles, which can be carried to and from the vehicle unlocked? Is this correct?

Last edited by q2on; 04-06-2009 at 9:07 PM..
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Old 04-06-2009, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by q2on View Post
So your gun must be locked (cable lock or locked container) while walking out to your car, but once you place it into the trunk then it's no longer required to be locked (since the truck itself counts as a locked container?) And this is NOT required for rifles, which can be carried to and from the vehicle unlocked? Is this correct?
Not quite.

First, lose the 'cable lock' idea. If California requires a gun to be locked for transport --handguns and 'assault weapons' -- it's in a fully enclosed container which is locked; a car trunk qualifies for handguns. A cable lock or trigger lock never qualifies as a 'locked container'.

Feds say either locked container or locked gun rack; we don't know if Feds think a trunk counts as 'locked container', but my guess is 'yes'.

The carry to and from your vehicle is conditional on where your vehicle is parked inside a school zone.
At the curb: locked.
In your garage: your choice.
In your driveway: I'd vote for locked just because courts can be idiotic and rule your driveway is 'public'.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 04-08-2009, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Not quite.

First, lose the 'cable lock' idea. If California requires a gun to be locked for transport --handguns and 'assault weapons' -- it's in a fully enclosed container which is locked; a car trunk qualifies for handguns. A cable lock or trigger lock never qualifies as a 'locked container'.

Feds say either locked container or locked gun rack; we don't know if Feds think a trunk counts as 'locked container', but my guess is 'yes'.

The carry to and from your vehicle is conditional on where your vehicle is parked inside a school zone.
At the curb: locked.
In your garage: your choice.
In your driveway: I'd vote for locked just because courts can be idiotic and rule your driveway is 'public'.
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm really disappointed with this whole cable lock BS. You aren't required to use it in your home (barring children), and it doesn't count as locking your weapon for most intents and purposes. It seems completely useless under most gun laws yet we are forced to purchase them.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:39 PM
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How about your back yard? Isn't that considered private property, so you can clean your rifle in your back yard.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:51 PM
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How about your back yard? Isn't that considered private property, so you can clean your rifle in your back yard.
It should be; usually access to one's back yard requires using a gate or doing something equally obviously different from 'just passing through' - since ordinarily one's back yard isn't on the way to anywhere else.

But maybe if it opened, say, onto a golf course, with no fence, that might be less 'private'.

Tricky thing, I fear.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 04-10-2009, 12:05 AM
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So it is fine to transport long arms through a school zone correct? Does this mean I legally UOC with my AK as long as I keep walking? I am technically trasnporting it am I not? Or do I need to be in a vehicle? Please answer and if possible provide the PC that says I cant do that.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
State Law allows for the transportation of long guns through school zones without having to be locked up.

Federal Law requires the long guns to be locked up when withing 1,000 feet of school property.

CHP pulls you over, probably going to not be a problem with long guns unlocked.

DEA, FBI, CIA, BATFE, or any other Fed pulls you over and you have long guns unlocked, you got the potential for major problems.
OK but couldn't the CA police enforce a state law? So are you saying if i don't have my long gun locked up that i would be fine assuming the person pulling me over isn't a federal agent?
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The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tombinghamthegreat View Post
OK but couldn't the CA police enforce a federal law? So are you saying if i don't have my long gun locked up that i would be fine assuming the person pulling me over isn't a federal agent?
Fixed it for you

And yes it appears to be that we can transport our non-concealable arms through school zones without having to put them in a locked container. Let us rejoice!
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:28 AM
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Is your trunk considered "locked" if you have a car that allows the back seats to lower to gain access to the trunk?
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  #31  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jpach View Post
Fixed it for you

And yes it appears to be that we can transport our non-concealable arms through school zones without having to put them in a locked container. Let us rejoice!
Thanks for the fix. That is a relief
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The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
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