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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2009, 1:06 PM
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Default Ruby Ridge: San Diego Sheriff Candidate approved "shoot on SIGHT"

"Four FBI agents, including the ex-head of the bureau's Seattle field office [[William Gore, APPOINTED San Diego Sheriff']], invoked their Fifth Amendment privileges against self-incrimination yesterday during Senate hearings into a shootout in northern Idaho that left three people dead....In a closed session, the four FBI agents, citing their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, refused to answer questions put to them by senators,

He said senior FBI official Larry Potts [above Gore in chain of command]....had approved an order under which FBI snipers were to shoot on sight any adult male seen with a weapon on the Weaver property.

....Richard Rodgers, head of the team. Rogers [below Gore in chain of command] helped formulate controversial "rules of engagement" for the siege that critics say amounted to a "shoot on sight" order for all armed adult males on the Weaver property.

FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi opened fire just a few hours after the rules of engagement were approved, wounding Randy Weaver and then killing his 43-year-old wife [head shot on mother holding her infant]...

....Justice Department probe of an alleged FBI cover-up of its conduct at Ruby Ridge...”

http://www.seattlepi.com/archives/1995/9509200047.asp


More: http://www.byington.org/Carl/ruby/ruby4h.htm


Tell me this guy wouldn't order Katrina-style gun confiscations, including use of deadly force, and other outrageous acts against the Constitution.

Who will help uncover more truth about this guy WHO WANTS TO BE the next elected Sheriff in San Diego??


.

Last edited by GuyW; 04-06-2010 at 9:38 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2009, 1:49 PM
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He's apparently a congenital, politically-motivated anti-gunner, inheriting the defect from his father:

"Mayor Frank Curran (left) and detective William Gore display guns to be dumped at sea, 1968. The mayor had instituted a voluntary gun turn-in program modeled after San Francisco's.

SDPD chief O.J. Roed, meanwhile, stated his opposition to the registration of guns because he didn't believe such laws could be enforced."

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...d-at-Sea-1968/

Last edited by GuyW; 03-29-2009 at 2:46 PM..
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2009, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GuyW View Post

Tell me this guy wouldn't order Katrina-style gun confiscations, including use of deadly force, and other outrageous acts against the Constitution.

Who will help uncover more truth about this guy WHO WANTS TO BE the next elected Sheriff in San Diego??


.
Is this for real? We in Sacramento have a sheriff that campaigned with a pro gun agenda only to stab us all in the back and virtually stopped issuing CCW's. I feel for you guys down there. I hope you can get this guy's campaign dumped in the sea.
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Old 03-29-2009, 4:21 PM
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Ooops - maybe if he wasn't smoozin' the politicos, things would have been different:

"In its 900-page report, the joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees criticized the pre-Sept. 11 counterterrorism analysis done by the FBI and CIA. The report suggests there were several missed opportunities to foil the attacks, and that alleged intelligence failures were especially obvious in San Diego, where two hijackers were known to a longtime FBI informant.

...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/aug/10/nation/na-fbi10

Last edited by GuyW; 03-29-2009 at 4:33 PM..
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2009, 12:22 AM
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Bury him. His only votes should be his own and his associates'.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2009, 9:49 AM
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Bury him. His only votes should be his own and his associates'.
He's the establishments' boy....spends quite a bit of time smoozing with folks that can give him money....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...504-gore4.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...502-gore3.html

So - what do you say, San Diego?

You'll get an anti-gun politician with a verified itchy trigger-finger for Sheriff if you don't do something about this election...

.

Last edited by GuyW; 07-02-2009 at 11:48 AM..
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2009, 10:26 AM
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This is troubling news indeed.

And now that David Bejarano has also entered the race it's more important than ever for us to unite behind Jay La Suer as our pro-gun candidate.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Guy.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2009, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Alaric View Post
This is troubling news indeed.

And now that David Bejarano has also entered the race it's more important than ever for us to unite behind Jay La Suer as our pro-gun candidate.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Guy.
+1 We all need to do what we can to get behind/Help Jay La Suer and not allow Bejarano to be a spoiler, Allowing this Gore scum bag to win the election.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:05 AM
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This is troubling news indeed.
Troubling? Quite the opposite, this is great news! This is great material to be exploited to the maximum possible benefit. There is no way that the anti CCW can in any way be allowed to appear moderate with a "shoot to kill on sight anyone who has a gun" position. It's the PERFECT soundbite. Jay and we as Jay's supporters should milk this and any other such findings for everything they're worth. Go tabloid, so to speak.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:09 AM
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+1 We all need to do what we can to get behind/Help Jay La Suer and not allow Bejarano to be a spoiler, Allowing this Gore scum bag to win the election.
Hey guys - post up some intel on Bejarano, *maybe* in a new thread.

As far as I know, though, Bejarano's a big-city liberal, presumptively guns-for-cops-only, and unlikely to cut into La Suer's votes. He'll probably take votes from Gore....

.
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
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...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."
You know that "no evidence" means, "we weren't so stupid as to document our failings", yes?
.

Last edited by GuyW; 07-15-2009 at 3:01 PM..
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:28 AM
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Hey guys - post up some intel on Bejarano, *maybe* in a new thread.

As far as I know, though, Bejarano's a big-city liberal, presumptively guns-for-cops-only, and unlikely to cut into La Suer's votes. He'll probably take votes from Gore....

.
Bejarano is a RINO by most accounts; likely to carry the latino and organized labor votes. I agree that he's unlikely to draw votes away from La Suer, but he is unfortunately a strong candidate (former SD Police Chief and US Marshall). I do not know his CCW position, but it would be interesting to find out. Here's a couple recent links on him:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...ejarano184021/

http://www.redcounty.com/sandiego/20...oves-bejarano/
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2009, 6:09 PM
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...plaigarized discusssion of Bejarano from the Dehesa Valley Gazette...

"**Humm. David Bajarano was SD City Police Chief. Big job. Big department. He quit. Why? Well he had an offer to be a U.S. Marshal. Huh? Leave a command job to be federal flunky? Naaaa. He had packed in 24 years in the cop shop. It was grab the pension loot-health care-etc time. Why work at a job when you can be paid for not doing that job. More years wasn’t gonna garner much more pension money. Bail.

Smart fellow that many gummint workers are..he jumped into a job that offered opportunity for another pension….but flunky-dome can be a *****. So into the private sector. That mostly sucked. Hello. All my life at the public swill bucket and I’m gonna survive in the public sector…no guaranteed pension. Forget this.

Hey, I know, I’ll run for SD County Sheriff. Public Chob, not as good as my Police Chief gig but pension, pension, pension. And I won’t have to flunk or scrape up biz in the private sector. I’m raking in city pension, at county I’ll get a good pay check and score time for my second pension payout.

Am I reading too much into this? I think not. Why leave a job as SD Police Chief in a department you served for almost a quarter century to take a lateral job as Sheriff. Let’s spell it together please P-E-N-S-I-O-N. Good work folks.

We’ll look at the other candidates for SD County Sheriff in future issues."
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2009, 6:29 PM
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If you SD guys know for a fact that LaSuer is a pro-2A fine upstanding candidate that won't stab you in the back after the smoke clears, get out and vote for him and burn those other two guys to the ground with whatever it takes.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-2009, 1:15 PM
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I'm really hoping that this little incident at Fran Busby's shindig the other night somehow, someway reflects poorly on Gore. It wasn't quite a Ruby Ridge II of course, but it still isn't sitting well with the public.

Unfortunately, it's more than likely going to be a feather in his cap if the investigation concludes that the sheriff's department overstepped its bounds and reprimands are issued to whomever. That'll give the impression that he's willing to fight abuse or whatnot amongst the ranks. Not good when we're trying to call his character into question.

JMO.
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2009, 1:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyW View Post
Ooops - maybe if he wasn't smoozin' the politicos, things would have been different:

"In its 900-page report, the joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees criticized the pre-Sept. 11 counterterrorism analysis done by the FBI and CIA. The report suggests there were several missed opportunities to foil the attacks, and that alleged intelligence failures were especially obvious in San Diego, where two hijackers were known to a longtime FBI informant.

...In an interview, former Special Agent in Charge Bill Gore asserted there was no evidence the FBI missed opportunities to catch two of the hijackers who for months lived in San Diego."

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/aug/10/nation/na-fbi10
Read up on Project Able Danger. However you are quickly going to find that is a very deep rabbit hole that will lead you straight to the path of truth about 9/11.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
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I'm really hoping that this little incident at Fran Busby's shindig the other night somehow, someway reflects poorly on Gore. It wasn't quite a Ruby Ridge II of course, but it still isn't sitting well with the public.
I find it incredibly funny - the liberal Democrats official position is that only cops and government agents NEED guns (aka Police State).

Then they snivel when they PURPORTEDLY receive police attention that is allegedly heavy-handed....

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Originally Posted by CoinStar View Post
Unfortunately, it's more than likely going to be a feather in his cap if the investigation concludes that the sheriff's department overstepped its bounds and reprimands are issued to whomever.
I'd imagine that the Deputy Sheriffs Association will be monitoring this closely, and there will be consequences if Gore tries to railroad the Deputy for political posturing.
.
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2009, 2:29 PM
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Jay La Suer was on Rick Roberts' radio show on July 14th...Rick basically quoted a post from CalGuns (mine, in fact -"You know that 'no evidence' means, 'we weren't so stupid as to document our failings'")!

(Rick Roberts rightfully has a very successful show with a large listenership....)

(audio file here)
http://www.760kfmb.com/Global/category.asp?C=157359


Wish I had known this was going to be on....

.

Last edited by GuyW; 07-15-2009 at 3:03 PM..
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2009, 2:42 PM
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Audio file HERE actually:
http://media.worldnow.com/kfmbam/pod...oberts_464.mp3

LOL
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2009, 6:32 PM
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Jay was on Rick roberts yesterday. I tried to get Rick to talk about it before the BOS meeting, but Obama had the center stage...
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Old 07-15-2009, 8:54 PM
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Troubling? Quite the opposite, this is great news! This is great material to be exploited to the maximum possible benefit. There is no way that the anti CCW can in any way be allowed to appear moderate with a "shoot to kill on sight anyone who has a gun" position. It's the PERFECT soundbite. Jay and we as Jay's supporters should milk this and any other such findings for everything they're worth. Go tabloid, so to speak.
Gore can't even follow his own rules of engagement. Vicki Weaver was unarmed. This butcher ordered his FBI sniper to kill her any way...
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Old 07-16-2009, 9:12 AM
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unfortunately, he is the darling of the bos and the deputies union, big players in the race.
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Old 07-16-2009, 9:41 AM
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unfortunately, he is the darling of the bos and the deputies union, big players in the race.
How about we show them for what they are then while we're at it, nothing but wannabe 3rd world dictators. Put the entire anti gun political complex on trial.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:15 AM
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Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable. Ive seen and read interviews with Weaver and countless others; I just don't have the words to describe my frustration with our government over it. This just furthers that statement.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:25 AM
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Ruby Ridge is one of those events that still pisses me of to this day. What happened to that man and his family is unimaginable. Ive seen and read interviews with Weaver and countless others; I just don't have the words to describe my frustration with our government over it. This just furthers that statement.
This Sheriff's race is a good vehicle for out-of-area / out of state citizens to show that they don't think Ruby Ridge JBTs should be rewarded by higher office....citizens can do that by financially supporting Jay La Suer...

This COULD be an excellent chance to show that we don't EVER forget about criminal violations of the Constitution or those who participated in same...
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:29 AM
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Could not agree more.

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Originally Posted by GuyW View Post
This Sheriff's race is a good vehicle for out-of-area / out of state citizens to show that they don't think Ruby Ridge JBTs should be rewarded by higher office....citizens can do that by financially supporting Jay La Suer...

This COULD be an excellent chance to show that we don't EVER forget about criminal violations of the Constitution or those who participated in same...
.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:54 PM
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This can happen again if this ex G man thinks that he got away with something at Ruby Ridge. San Diego county residents could find themselves dealing with crooked deputies; who pretend that it's their job, to encourage people to break the law. They might ask you to chop down a pair of cheap single shot shotguns again. Your dog and your wife might wind up dead even if they are unarmed.

All of those hotdogs who screwed up in Idaho should have been drummed out of the police business forever. Their reckless rules of engagement cost the US taxpayers $3,000,000.00 in a lawsuit and you should never let this Gore dude forget it. It might be nice to see Randy Weaver and col. Beau Gritz campaign against him too...
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Old 07-17-2009, 9:50 AM
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It might be nice to see Randy Weaver and col. Beau Gritz campaign against him too...
Yeah. That would be great press if we wanted Gore to win. Fortunately though, San Diego County isn't a bastion of ultra-right wingnuts and thus appealing to this mythical pro-Weaver base would be pointless.

This is also why I think that in attacking Gore, it's important not to harp too much on the whole Ruby Ridge thing in general. We need broad support to get La Suer elected and most uninformed voters aren't going to care enough (or even know) Gore's role in that mess.

That may rub some folks wrong, but it's the truth.
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Old 07-17-2009, 9:54 AM
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We know the truth about Ruby Ridge (or at least enough of it to have a reasoned judgement).

I'm not sure that the sheeple either know or care. To them, I'm guessing, Randy Weaver is still some kind of weird mountain man who deserved whatever happened there.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:25 AM
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....ultra-right wingnuts

This is also why I think that in attacking Gore, it's important not to harp too much on the whole Ruby Ridge thing in general.
I'd currently agree that it might not be helpful for Randy Weaver to speak in San Diego, but I'm open to discussion.

Most centrist/moderate voters don't consider the 9th District Court, nor the US Senate, as "ultra-right wingnuts". Those were the authorities (among others) who said that the "shoot on sight" order was a violation of Constitutional rights.

The "point" of reaching out to people around the country, who already care about Ruby Ridge, is financial support to thwart JBT Gore.

I think a mother being executed / murdered by a shot to the head by government agents, resonates with average San Diego voters, as well....

.

Last edited by GuyW; 09-03-2009 at 2:07 AM..
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:43 AM
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How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:00 AM
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How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.
IIRC, the baby wasn't significantly harmed, but I'll have to look at it later....
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:25 AM
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Oh yeah, I don't know why I thought the baby was killed too, she was just holding it. Okay amend to "resulting in the death of a mother who only had her 10 month old baby in her arms" or something to that effect
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:15 PM
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Oh yeah, I don't know why I thought the baby was killed too, she was just holding it. Okay amend to "resulting in the death of a mother who only had her 10 month old baby in her arms" or something to that effect
"Gore authorized the fatal shooting of an innocent, unarmed mother holding her baby. Both the 9th District Court, and the US Senate rule that this violated her constitutional rights (duh!). This incident happened at a government provoked stand-off with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, who had been accused (by a federal agent provocateur) of a crime for which he was later acquitted."

For the benefit of those who don't know, IIRC Weaver was accused of manufacturing a shotgun with too short a barrel (by a tiny fraction of an inch -- I don't remember exactly how much -- maybe one eighth of an inch). His accuser was the undercover ATF agent who had commissioned the manufacture. He didn't turn up to answer these charges, which is why the seige was laid on. The firing started when a government agent shot Weaver's son's dog, who had discovered them creeping up on the Weaver's cabin. Vicki Weaver was, child in arms, standing on the porch of the cabin when she was shot.

At a subsequent court case, a firearm expert demonstrated, that depending from where the measurement was taken, the barrel was either an eighth undersized or an eighth oversized. The case was dismissed and no other charges were laid.


-----------------

This is the prime reason why anyone manufacturing a minimum length shotgun should err on the side of safety and make the barrel maybe a quarter of an inch longer than the absolute minimum length.
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2009, 12:52 PM
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I remember reading somewhere that Weaver was asked by the ATF agent to shorten the barrels to the illegal length and he said he wouldn't do it. So the agent bought the shotguns as they were and then shortened them himself.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:55 PM
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The reference I mention above is in the Wikipedia entry, of course I hardly consider Wikipedia to be gospel on much of anything but here's a link for those interested in at least getting a general idea on what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
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Old 07-17-2009, 1:00 PM
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You guys should put together a web ad with this data in it... Do you have a PAC or opponent campaign you can work with?
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Old 07-17-2009, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
I remember reading somewhere that Weaver was asked by the ATF agent to shorten the barrels to the illegal length and he said he wouldn't do it. So the agent bought the shotguns as they were and then shortened them himself.
My recollection is that the ATF agent asked for a shorter, illegal, barrel and Weaver refused. He agreed to make a minimum length barrel and this was the one that was measured in court. The court agreed that within the definition of "minimum length," the barrel that Weaver made was either just below or just above the required standard. The court gave Weaver the benefit of the doubt as the statute was not sufficiently clear about how to measure the barrel.

I have no recollection that the ATF agent modified the barrel, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Don't remember where I got this information, probably not wikipedia. Never read anything that seriously contradicts it.
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Old 07-17-2009, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
How about something like "gave an order that was tantamount to summary execution that resulted in the death of an unarmed mother and her infant"

Maybe even the Amnesty International folks would pick up on that and smear him.
BINGO! It's just the truth. Does San Diego have any more local conservative talk shows? Call then too. Those guys were angry about both Ruby Ridge and Waco at the time. Gore is in fact partly responsible for the death of Vicki Weaver. Since the sheriff has the same kind of SWAT team, armed with sniper weapons, then "the rules of engagement" should become a campaign issue.

C-SPAN televised the Ruby Ridge hearings. They also sell DVDs of their archives, if somebody needs footage for a political ad. Lots of Gore's double speak in there for sure...

Last edited by cousinkix1953; 07-17-2009 at 9:05 PM..
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Old 07-19-2009, 4:04 PM
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Most centrist/moderate voters don't consider the 9th District Court, nor the US Senate, as "ultra-right wingnuts". Those were the authorities (among others) who said that the "shoot on sight" order was a violation of Constitutional rights.
Right, the difference being that they were privy to all of the details of the case and actual event, whereas Joe-everyday-voter isn't. The chances that the average person would even recognize Weaver's name are slim. For those who did, the chances that his name would likely elicit a "Oh. The white supremacist guy!" sort of reaction would be high -- not good.

This is why the Ruby Ridge angle to beating up Gore is a labor-intensive endeavor; the voluminous background information and details are an absolute necessity to winning the hearts and minds of the uninformed. Call me cynical, but I'd bet good money that most voters would tune out within a minute and chalk it all up to "gun nuts" supporting a "criminal"... facts be damned.


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I think a mother being executed / murdered by a shot to the head by government agents, resonates with average San Diego voters, as well....
True, but aside from the issues I've already pointed out, I think recent and local events (like the fracas at Busby's) would resonate better and with a broader audience simply because more people could relate. The idea of sheriff's deputies barging into your house sans warrant, pepper spraying people with air support circling, and then arresting you for simply asking why they demanded you give them your date of birth, doesn't (and hasn't) gone over well with the public. I'd like to see that tied to Gore somehow... something ala a 'Is this how you want your sheriff's department to act?' slogan.
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