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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-20-2009, 11:31 PM
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Default Has anyone ever had to test the high capacity magazine law?

I would like to use a 10/22 high capacity magazine. My understanding is that it is legal to possess and use one (but not to import or sell one), but I am wondering if there have been any people who have had legal trouble relating to them? Has there been a case where they have tried someone for using/possessing one but had it thrown out because of the wording of the law?

BDD

Last edited by B.D.Dubloon; 03-21-2009 at 3:41 AM..
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:06 AM
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Occasionally people get popped for confusion.

CGF has just about settled one case just like this - the DA did a nonfile and ran away from the charges faster than we could attack back.

Zillions of folks have hicaps they got before 2000 and should not be afraid to use them. Even most cops seem to be aware of this. From a practical point, don't worry. If questioned about your legal hicap magazine, tell the truth: "I got it before 2000 and am allowed to retain it and use it in any firearm for which it can legally be used."
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:12 AM
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What if someone finds coupla hicap mags and cant find the rightful owner say in 2008 while shooting on public land? can they just keep em dis-assembled for parts etc ? they cant have em assembeled?
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kakpataka View Post
What if someone finds coupla hicap mags and cant find the rightful owner say in 2008 while shooting on public land? can they just keep em dis-assembled for parts etc ? they cant have em assembeled?
I would think that they would be ok ay to use them but Bweise will know for sure.

It isn't illegal to buy them is it, just to sell right? I was at a range and some guy was using them and he said he just ordered them online (from a major online store which I imagine has changed their policy) and they mailed them to him. While he might have violated the law by arranging to transport them into the state from another, if he had bought them from a store here that was illegally selling them would he have committed a crime? What I am slyly trying to ask is what if your magazines are not preban, owning/using them is still legal right?

Thanks for stopping in to answer on this thread Bwiese, I had you in mind when I started it and was really happy you showed up so soon.

BDD
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:19 AM
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I use mine all the time
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:21 AM
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i have a good number of highcap mags and been slightly afraid to use them.

i would kill to start rebuilding some of the worn out ones using pmag kits but i would really not like to explain myself to any inquisitive leo-tard that its a perfectly legal rebuilt mag.
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:24 AM
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Search, but technically you are illegal. After the 3 year Statute of Limitations is up, you will still be subject to civil confiscation and possibly a great expense in defending yourself. Is it worth it? I think not, but then again, I'm a revolver / lever-action guy. Frankly, the worst damage done has often been done by guys who are good aims with slow guns, and calm demeanor. Look at Oswald, Booth, Ray (King), Sirhan (RFKennedy" (22 revolver), etc. Then you have the nut in Alabama or Georgia the other day who got 9 others with an AR after firing hundreds of rounds.

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Old 03-21-2009, 12:24 AM
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Never had a problem using mine
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:24 AM
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It is not at all prohibited to posses magazines that have a capacity larger than 10 rounds. As long as you don't use them with a fixed magazine (bullet button, prince-50, etc.) semiautomatic rifle, you have nothing to worry about.

There have been an arrest or two, but as Bill mentioned, we'll happily educate LEA's and DA's about what the Penal Code actually says.

-Gene
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:35 AM
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So TheBundo is incorrect? I want to make sure but it seems to me like I'll be in the clear.

BDD
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakpataka View Post
What if someone finds coupla hicap mags and cant find the rightful owner say in 1999 while shooting on public land? can they just keep em dis-assembled for parts etc ? they cant have em assembeled?
FTFY

you would be fine
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBundo View Post
Search, but technically you are illegal. After the 3 year Statute of Limitations is up, you will still be subject to civil confiscation and possibly a great expense in defending yourself. Is it worth it? I think not, but then again, I'm a revolver / lever-action guy. Frankly, the worst damage done has often been done by guys who are good aims with slow guns, and calm demeanor. Look at Oswald, Booth, Ray (King), Sirhan (RFKennedy" (22 revolver), etc. Then you have the nut in Alabama or Georgia the other day who got 9 others with an AR after firing hundreds of rounds.

What are you talking about? Pre-2000 standard capacity mags are legal, in the right weapon. And what is the point of the Oswald etc. comment?
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2009, 1:11 AM
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Originally Posted by luchador768 View Post
What are you talking about? Pre-2000 standard capacity mags are legal, in the right weapon. And what is the point of the Oswald etc. comment?
What about hi caps made after 2000? Possession and use is still legal right? Just not selling or importing?
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Old 03-21-2009, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by B.D.Dubloon View Post
What about hi caps made after 2000? Possession and use is still legal right? Just not selling or importing?
No. The only magazines that are legal to posses are those that you possessed in California before 1/1/2000. However, the only things prohibited (from the end user's point of view) are importing or manufacturing magazines. That prohibition has a 36 month statute of limitations.

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  #15  
Old 03-21-2009, 1:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
No. The only magazines that are legal to posses are those that you possessed in California before 1/1/2000. However, the only things prohibited (from the end user's point of view) are importing or manufacturing magazines. That prohibition has a 36 month statute of limitations.

-Gene
I'm sure I am about to ask a stupid question but I am a bit confused. If the only things prohibited from he user's point of view are importing or manufacturing, doesn't that make possession/use not prohibited (legal)?

If someone has some hicaps which were made post 2000, what part of the law are they breaking? (I am not trying to argue with you because you are a million times more knowledgeable in this area than I am, thanks for your time).

Thanks,
BDD
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2009, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by B.D.Dubloon View Post
If someone has some hicaps which were made post 2000, what part of the law are they breaking? (I am not trying to argue with you because you are a million times more knowledgeable in this area than I am, thanks for your time).
First, I'm not disagreeing with you per se. I'm being very precise. Importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines after 1/1/2000 is illegal. However, if one were to have done that on 1/2/2000 and still posses them, one is outside of the statute of limitations for the crime of importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines.

Strictly speaking, it is "illegal." Practically speaking, you can not be prosecuted.

I hope you can read between the lines to see why I'm being precise. Understand that I'm not at all bothered by explaining this set of issues in detail.

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  #17  
Old 03-21-2009, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
First, I'm not disagreeing with you per se. I'm being very precise. Importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines after 1/1/2000 is illegal. However, if one were to have done that on 1/2/2000 and still posses them, one is outside of the statute of limitations for the crime of importing or manufacturing large-capacity magazines.

Strictly speaking, it is "illegal." Practically speaking, you can not be prosecuted.

I hope you can read between the lines to see why I'm being precise. Understand that I'm not at all bothered by explaining this set of issues in detail.

-Gene
I gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to give me the answer and the why, I really appreciate it.

BDD
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  #18  
Old 03-21-2009, 2:32 AM
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What are you talking about? Pre-2000 standard capacity mags are legal, in the right weapon. And what is the point of the Oswald etc. comment?
My answer is correct, and so is Gene's. You had better get used to splitting hairs in dealing with this stuff. The Oswald comment is to show how stupid the law is, that the most damage to society hasn't even been done with hi-cap mags, but with old-fashioned weapons in the wrong hands.
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:37 AM
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My answer is correct, and so is Gene's. You had better get used to splitting hairs in dealing with this stuff. The Oswald comment is to show how stupid the law is, that the most damage to society hasn't even been done with hi-cap mags, but with old-fashioned weapons in the wrong hands.
The splitting hairs part seems to be correct, Gene more or less said that a couple posts ago.The amount of Damage Oswald did to society is open to debate though
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:39 AM
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BTW, I'm not saying anything the anti's don't know. Saturday Night Specials are in fact still here, but they also aren't the cause of crime. But some people on here are indeed criminals. A recent incident of a member with a loaded shotgun walking down the business district in Vacaville (I think that is where it was, but I'm tired, but the town started with a "V"), who had meth in his house, and over 3,000 posts is but one example. Frankly, these guys deserve to be sent to the slammer.

There is no way there is any right to be walking around a downtown waving a gun around on meth
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBundo View Post
My answer is correct, and so is Gene's. You had better get used to splitting hairs in dealing with this stuff. The Oswald comment is to show how stupid the law is, that the most damage to society hasn't even been done with hi-cap mags, but with old-fashioned weapons in the wrong hands.
Gotcha, I was a bit confused. I have the same opinion about a comited manic with a "sporting" bolt action gun being every bit as dangerous as a yahoo with a 100 round mag. Sorry if I came off like an a-hole.
Peter
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:53 AM
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What 10/22 Hi Cap mags are there that where made prior to 2000? Manufactures? If I need to rebuild kits, are the tactical innovations 25rd legal? I know there is a guy on calguns that supplies these are rebuilds, so where these around before 2000?
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:55 AM
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i've never had any problems with 10/22 hi cap mags. i think i have like 5-6 of them. couple of them holding 50 round. i bought all mine in 94 and still have my receipts for them. cops don't care about hi cap mags for 10/22.
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBundo View Post
BTW, I'm not saying anything the anti's don't know. Saturday Night Specials are in fact still here, but they also aren't the cause of crime. But some people on here are indeed criminals. A recent incident of a member with a loaded shotgun walking down the business district in Vacaville (I think that is where it was, but I'm tired, but the town started with a "V"), who had meth in his house, and over 3,000 posts is but one example. Frankly, these guys deserve to be sent to the slammer.

There is no way there is any right to be walking around a downtown waving a gun around on meth
Holy crap. Please tell us more about this or link to a news story if possible. I guess it was naive of me but I thought all Cgers were right guys.

BDD
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Old 03-21-2009, 3:06 AM
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What 10/22 Hi Cap mags are there that where made prior to 2000? Manufactures? If I need to rebuild kits, are the tactical innovations 25rd legal? I know there is a guy on calguns that supplies these are rebuilds, so where these around before 2000?
Butler Creek, Ramline, Eagle, and a few others. The Tactical Innovations are pretty new, but man they look really nice! Not sure about rebuild kits...
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Old 03-21-2009, 4:17 AM
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Holy crap. Please tell us more about this or link to a news story if possible. I guess it was naive of me but I thought all Cgers were right guys.

BDD
There was an incident with a popular "calgunner" in Victorville. I assume you did't know, or you would be very very ill-advised to pick at an open wound
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Old 03-21-2009, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
No. The only magazines that are legal to posses are those that you possessed in California before 1/1/2000. However, the only things prohibited (from the end user's point of view) are importing or manufacturing magazines. That prohibition has a 36 month statute of limitations.

-Gene
so, O G officer, yea, my bad I built that 37 months ago... and I am ok?
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Old 03-21-2009, 8:54 AM
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There was an incident with a popular "calgunner" in Victorville. I assume you did't know, or you would be very very ill-advised to pick at an open wound
What exactly does this mean?
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:07 AM
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are is there a date of manufacturer on a mag? and if not, how does one tell it's age?
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:13 AM
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so, O G officer, yea, my bad I built that 37 months ago... and I am ok?
Yes but a smarter strategy is to exercise your right to remain silent about how you came into possession of magazines. Knowing that complete rebuilds are legal such that no date stamp is conclusive and that the state would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you imported or manufactured them in the past 36 months, the state can't win.

-Gene
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:29 AM
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There was an incident with a popular "calgunner" in Victorville. I assume you did't know, or you would be very very ill-advised to pick at an open wound
I didn't know anything about this and am very curious. Is this the incident in question:

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/sho...ommendedOnly=0

BDD
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:09 AM
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when you same COMPLETE rebuilds, you're talking internals only, right?

eventually, the lips of mags get outta wack. so, thematically, couldnt you do a rebuild using a new shell and your old internals (follower, springs, perhaps even the plate)
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:14 AM
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I've failed at searching for the statute of limitations regarding magazines.
Can I get kicked in the right direction, please?


Found it:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showp...0&postcount=35
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:18 AM
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What about someone rebuilding a 20 rounder to a 30 rounder adding+2 extensions and all that stuff, is that legal or ilegal to do?

Last edited by glockk9mm; 03-21-2009 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:04 PM
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What about someone rebuilding a 20 rounder to a 30 rounder adding+2 extensions and all that stuff, is that legal or ilegal to do?
A hi-cap is just that here in Calif.; anything over 10 rounds.
I never heard of any subdivision or nitpicking beyond that.
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Old 03-21-2009, 1:31 PM
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One can change the capacity of any legally owned large-capacity magazine to any capacity one wants. The only caution I would add is there should be a path through replacement parts to get from the previously possessed large-capacity magazine to the larger-capacity magazine.

-Gene
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Old 03-21-2009, 1:47 PM
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The only caution I would add is there should be a path through replacement parts to get from the previously possessed large-capacity magazine to the larger-capacity magazine.

-Gene
Gene, what exactly do you mean by this? I have a problem understanding what people here say.
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Old 03-21-2009, 2:13 PM
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If you have a 20 round AR magazine that you owned on 1/1/1998 you can easily turn it into a 30 round AR magazine. You may have a much harder time defending that somehow that 20 round AR magazine was rebuilt into a 100 round drum, unless you can show how you replaced one part at a time until you ended up with a 100 round drum.

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  #39  
Old 03-21-2009, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockk9mm View Post
Gene, what exactly do you mean by this? I have a problem understanding what people here say.
make sure a part from the old mag can work in the new mag.

don't take a usgi 30 round mag and "rebuild" a beta C drum mag.
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2009, 2:32 PM
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If the new larger capacity magazine does not share some parts compatibility with the older one it would have been impossible to modify the old hi-cap into the curretn version while maintaining its legal status as a grandfathered hi-cap.
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