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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2009, 3:21 PM
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Default Support UOC? A simple challenge

There has been a bit of grief on this forum from those that support UOC right now and those of us counseling that it is premature to do it too often on one's own at this time.

Here is my challenge. One of the UOC communities' own is about to face a jury trial for supposedly violating the school zone restriction. CGF has signed up to facilitate donations earmarked to Theseus for use in his defense. I also happen to know that donations through CGF to Theseus's defense have been pretty anemic.

I want those of you who support UOC at this time to post in this thread if you've donated $20 or more.

If you haven't donated I want to know why you are willing to UOC at this time, place other pro-gunners at risk of bad legislation, but yet aren't willing or able to donate $20 or more to make sure that Theseus' case doesn't become more bad precedent in the courts for everyone.

You can donate here. Paypal at that link automatically marks the donation (via Paypal or Credit Card) as for Theseus. If you choose to instead mail a check/billpay/postal money order to the address, just put a note on it or in the envelope that it is for Theseus' defense.

-Gene
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Old 03-15-2009, 3:23 PM
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+ $200 (last month) and more to come

and UOCers please read:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=150
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Old 03-15-2009, 3:30 PM
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$100.00 inbound via M/O
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Old 03-15-2009, 4:00 PM
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I have donated $25..... times are difficult.... but I am getting new clients ( hopefully) next week and more will come
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2009, 4:15 PM
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$100 sent via PP. I'll try and make the trial as well (in a suit, artherd) if counsel approves of a Calguns presence.

We ARE family here, regardless of whether or not I agree with you UOC supporters.
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Old 03-15-2009, 4:22 PM
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Default I support but...

I support but I have been broke in the last year... I WANT to UOC but do not have funds to fight for my right at this time so I will wiat till you all think the time is right and I am a in financially more stable place... But having said that... I have probably over looked supporting the guy who is having the trouble now and I will glady send at a minimum of $20 to help a fellow CGer out...

Gene is that link on your sig the best way to do it? PM me if you can as I do not want to miss out on helping... And everyone else let's help this guy out!!
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2009, 4:33 PM
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The donate here link above and here is the right one.

My .sig takes you to a generic donation page which doesn't earmark the donation for Theseus unless you take some effort on your own part.

-Gene
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2009, 4:57 PM
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I donated $20.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2009, 4:59 PM
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I hope everyone who supports OC will do it by donating, not by OCing. I'm aware of what the leg. change would be that they would / could use to stop UOC, and it would have a very bad effect on all California gun owners. We would all suffer some very negative consequences from it.
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Old 03-15-2009, 5:20 PM
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I've donated more than $20
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2009, 5:34 PM
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Time to put your money where your mouth is! By the way I personally have donated both time and $...
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2009, 5:50 PM
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Gene I will try to get my lady (the one with the money) to do this tomorrow, Thanks. I know I really appreciate all your hard work fella's.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2009, 5:57 PM
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I don't UOC, but I donated more than $20 anyways.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2009, 6:02 PM
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Can you let us know if he was within the radius of a school which would make his UOC a crime? I think that coming out and saying that he was within his legally proscribed rights and is getting the shaft would make some more likely to donate than not knowing if the law was broken.

My .02
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2009, 6:05 PM
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40 for the cause.
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2009, 6:12 PM
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Donated.
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Old 03-15-2009, 6:29 PM
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Thumbs up

I just donated another $1000: $400 to Theseus and $600 to The Calguns Foundation. I challenge you to do the same or better.

Edit: For the record, I believe that OC should be legal but I also agree with The Calguns Foundation and the elders on Calguns.net that now is not the time to fight that battle.

Last edited by notnowjohn; 03-16-2009 at 10:30 AM..
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2009, 6:33 PM
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I agree with Gene and the other guys that now is not the time to be pushing UOC, with Nordyke right around the corner. Still, I participated in the benefit dinner, and I just sent in $250 by PayPal.

My only regret is that although I just got a jury duty notice for the beginning of April, I'm in the wrong county to end up on Theseus's case. Well, I'd feel compelled to state that I know him personally (even though I've only met him once, at the benefit dinner), so there's no way I'd end up on his jury anyway, but I still can't help but wish I could be sitting in one of those twelve seats at his trial.

Hmm, just wondering: If the Nordyke panel decision comes out before Theseus's trial, and it finds that the 2nd is incorporated here, could/should the defense lawyer add a claim of 2nd Amendment infringement to the pile of reasons why Theseus should not be found guilty? Or would it be too soon for the ruling to be applicable to anything, and/or bad strategy for any other reasons?
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Old 03-15-2009, 6:34 PM
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I just donated another $1000: $400 to Theseus and $600 to The Calguns Foundation. I challenge you to do the same or better.
YOU ROCK!
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Old 03-15-2009, 7:20 PM
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I donated. If I can come up with a few bucks to help someone out everyone here can.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2009, 7:32 PM
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Gene, what kind of money will be needed? I mean, asking for a $20 donation is great, but not if he's going to need $10K for his defense! I'd like to know the particulars of the case, and what your personal opinion is of his chances of WINNING. I am in for any fight where I have a chance to WIN, but it has to be for the right reason.

Awaiting details...
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Old 03-15-2009, 7:50 PM
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I donated twice, and both times more than that.
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Old 03-15-2009, 8:04 PM
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I just donated another $1000: $400 to Theseus and $600 to The Calguns Foundation. I challenge you to do the same or better.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2009, 8:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gravedigger View Post
Gene, what kind of money will be needed? I mean, asking for a $20 donation is great, but not if he's going to need $10K for his defense! I'd like to know the particulars of the case, and what your personal opinion is of his chances of WINNING. I am in for any fight where I have a chance to WIN, but it has to be for the right reason.

Awaiting details...
I think he'll need another $5K and you'd be amazed at how quickly small donations add up. He has at least a 60%-40% chance of winning. This is part of the problem with UOC at this time is that it's not incredibly easy to win.

My understanding - and I admit I'm a bit foggy on the details - is that he was on private property that was otherwise open to the public and was barely inside a school zone. The property is literally signed as "Private Property" which is why I give him better than even odds. His counsel is one of the right people and he will end up keeping the jury trial costs down some but he can't go below certain levels.

-Gene
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Old 03-15-2009, 8:21 PM
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done
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2009, 8:38 PM
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He was within 1000 feet of the perimeter of a school. To compleat the crime you have to know it. He didn't, nor did the responding officers. Also, he was on private property. He should have been fine. Some bureaucrat has a hard on for him and gunnies in general. BTW, three hundred and thirty three yards is a long way in the city, and one hell of a long pistol shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.D.Dubloon View Post
Can you let us know if he was within the radius of a school which would make his UOC a crime? I think that coming out and saying that he was within his legally proscribed rights and is getting the shaft would make some more likely to donate than not knowing if the law was broken.

My .02
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:09 PM
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I dont have any money right now but i do have a 52 inch plotter and lots of vinyl to cut decals, if you want some let me know

you could sell them to help theseus or the fund in general, just let me know what you want them to say or the image you would want them of and ill cut you a couple hundred or more
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2009, 10:14 PM
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I'm not a big fan of OC but I did pony up $100 because the guy shouldn't be treated like garbage by the law.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:31 PM
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BTW, three hundred and thirty three yards is a long way in the city, and one hell of a long pistol shot.
If he carries a .45, it would require indirect fire and maybe a forward spotter.

7x57
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I think he'll need another $5K and you'd be amazed at how quickly small donations add up. He has at least a 60%-40% chance of winning. This is part of the problem with UOC at this time is that it's not incredibly easy to win.

My understanding - and I admit I'm a bit foggy on the details - is that he was on private property that was otherwise open to the public and was barely inside a school zone. The property is literally signed as "Private Property" which is why I give him better than even odds. His counsel is one of the right people and he will end up keeping the jury trial costs down some but he can't go below certain levels.

-Gene
Thank you Gene. Okay, that sounds like something I can get behind. I'll check my accounts and see if there is any money left over after the bills are paid. I can usually scrape up fifty bucks without too much difficulty!

When is the trial?
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:35 AM
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I donated $100 a while back
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:54 AM
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I don't OC, but I'd sure like people to help me out here if I got in a bind. So yes, I have just now donated.

Thanks CGF!
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Old 03-16-2009, 1:53 AM
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FOR THE RECORD!

I am totally opposed to the "open carry movement" and do not support it. Not because of any 'right' you may or may not have but because the atmosphere in this state does not support it at this time. I've stated my reasons before so I won't bore you. At present, open carriers may do irrepairable damage to our gun rights by upsetting people-> VOTERS that they encounter.

I do support our members that are prosecuted falsely (Brightspot) but I will not support anyone that has been warned and thru their own actions or stupidity runs afoul of the law.

My $100 is the last I will donate for anyone charged with UOC.
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Old 03-16-2009, 9:34 AM
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i gave, not much over that but i did give. And i dont UOC. I had thought about it, but in my area, there are to many school zones to do it safely. Those things are everywhere you turn.
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Old 03-16-2009, 9:38 AM
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I donated $500 to this, and more to the CGF general fund since. I will donate more.

Is there any hope of ever defeating 626.9 in the futrue? And I mean, getting it off the books? IMO it is far worse than 12025 and 12031. Even with 12031 gone, it doesn't do us any good with 626.9 still in effect.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:05 AM
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I'm already up past $500. My donations were/are for the CGF as a whole, even though I personally do support UOC, and was present (and accounted for) @ the first OC gathering up here in Sacramento at the Outback dinner. So, yeah, I put my $$$ where my mouth is. However, I am also in agreement w/ Gene in that it is not to our "tactical advantage" right now to be UOC. Especially in the political climate we have found ourselves in at this time, it would be VERY smart to avoid any/all possibilities of even putting the most microscopic of blemishes on the foundation that is being built upon by the law-abiding CalGuns community. There are alternate carry methods (two of which I use) that attract zero attention, and are just as effective as a means of self-defense/lethal force. Making a legal, although possibly risky, statement right now is not as high a priority as having the tool(s) to save your own (and others') life/lives without jeapordizing gun owners' rights down the road. It's f**ked, I know, but that's simply how it is.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:21 AM
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I don't OC, but I'd sure like people to help me out here if I got in a bind. So yes, I have just now donated.

Thanks CGF!
This is where I am too. M/O en route.

Theseus,
You are in my thoughts.
g
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2009, 10:54 AM
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Gene or Ben,

Any chance we could get a 24 update later today on what's been raised since the first post?
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
He was within 1000 feet of the perimeter of a school. To compleat the crime you have to know it. He didn't, nor did the responding officers. Also, he was on private property. He should have been fine. Some bureaucrat has a hard on for him and gunnies in general. BTW, three hundred and thirty three yards is a long way in the city, and one hell of a long pistol shot.
It's legal to have a gun on private property right, even if you are within a thousand feet of a school? Sounds like a gun owner getting shafted. I am curious about this though:
"To compleat the crime you have to know it"
I thought that ignorance of the law was not a valid excuse.

BDD
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  #40  
Old 03-16-2009, 12:00 PM
eflatminor eflatminor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
There has been a bit of grief on this forum from those that support UOC right now and those of us counseling that it is premature to do it too often on one's own at this time.

Here is my challenge. One of the UOC communities' own is about to face a jury trial for supposedly violating the school zone restriction. CGF has signed up to facilitate donations earmarked to Theseus for use in his defense. I also happen to know that donations through CGF to Theseus's defense have been pretty anemic.

I want those of you who support UOC at this time to post in this thread if you've donated $20 or more.

If you haven't donated I want to know why you are willing to UOC at this time, place other pro-gunners at risk of bad legislation, but yet aren't willing or able to donate $20 or more to make sure that Theseus' case doesn't become more bad precedent in the courts for everyone.

You can donate here. Paypal at that link automatically marks the donation (via Paypal or Credit Card) as for Theseus. If you choose to instead mail a check/billpay/postal money order to the address, just put a note on it or in the envelope that it is for Theseus' defense.

-Gene
Your post has made me not want to donate. I will continue to UOC whether you like it or not. My funds will be reserved to support my own actions. Should I run afoul of a fascist cop or DA, I am prepared to fight my own battle, financially and otherwise

I could ask for you to demonstrate that you have financially supported every cause you claim to support, but that would be juvenile, wouldn't it? Who you support is your business, nobody else's. Seeking funds for Theseus is fine but that's not what your post is about. It's an insulting attempt to 'call out' those that disagree with your tactics by suggesting they must send money to demonstrate their point of view. Donations are a personal choice and one I will not be bullied into by a hall monitor with an attitude.
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