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  #1  
Old 02-19-2009, 9:20 PM
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Default low recoil 00 buckshot vs non low recoil

i shot both at my local range. fiocchi low recoil 00 buckshot and federal 00 buckshot. recoil is like day and night between the two. federal seems to do more damage than the fiocchi. does it mean that low recoil ammo has less penetration? paper target showed more damage with the federals. much tighter hit pattern.
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Old 02-19-2009, 9:28 PM
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Im no ammo genius, but anytime you have less powder with the same size shot, I would say that your going to have less penetration. Maybe they invented this because its still plenty strong enough to kill (every time I see low recoil, its advertised for law enforcement) but yet easy on ..how can I say this politically correct.... A humans shoulders .....

Thats my guess.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2009, 10:23 PM
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I'm sure there are more than a handful of ways to address "recoil" in shotgun ammo that would be universal for all shotguns. Two things need to be ketp in mind. First is that recoil is subjective; there is no way to say X recoils more than Y. You could make a Delrin .22 pistol that will feel like more recoil than a hot .50 BMG built around a 30 ton block of steel. There are also instances where the recoil of one feels much sharper than the recoil of another, even though it's opperating with less force; this is frequently seen between 9mm and .45 handguns - the .45 is frequently described as slow and more of a push where the 9mm is descrbied as snappy. You also need to remember that the force imparted on the projectile is the same as the force imparted on the gun, and therefore the shooter. For it to be universal in ALL guns without adjustment or tuning of a specific model then it's probably pretty basic alterations being done to the ammo. Off the top of my head I'd imagine it's on of these:

They could keep the load the same and dropped the charge so that it's traveling at less velocity. The lower the charge, the less force imparted on both the projectile and and shooter so recoil seems less. It's also traveling slower so it will have less penetration and desctruction than a regular powered load with all things being equal.

They could have kept the charge the same but dropped the load. The full size load may have 9 pelletes where as the lighter load has 6 pelletes. Less mass is being pushed, so less force is required to get it up to equal velocities, and the powder charge is probably dropped to accomodate this. Even though the pelletes are traveling with the same force, there are fewer so it will appear to do less damage than a full sized shell, again, assuming everything else is equal.

Third they could keep the load the same but use a different powder that will burn less violently. The recoil will increase more gradually compared to a rapid ignition powder and it will have a more drawn out recoil that will feel softer, even though the same charge is traveling at the same velocity. This is probably not the case though, as ther eis no way to determine if the user will be using a 10" breaching barrel or a 28" hunting barrel; both of which will effect recoil and performance of the load.

I'm sure there are many more, but that's just off the top of my head right now.
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Old 02-20-2009, 9:00 AM
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If you really want to compare the two in terms of damage potential, find the published spec on the muzzle energy for each load (or chrony them if you have one), divide that by the number of pellets, and you get the energy per pellet. That's really what it comes down to.

After that, you'd need to pattern the spread for each out of your gun to determine the relative effectiveness at a given distance. That will tell you how many pellets are likely to hit the target, and you can then come up with the total energy delivered to the target. Note that at shorter ranges you'll see holes from the wadding, too.

This is a simplified version, but it works well with shotgun pellets, since expansion and fragmentation aren't generally an issue.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:45 AM
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Get a semi-automatic if you want recoil reduction.

As for me, a round of trap shooting with a double barrel twelve guage and no recoil pad left my shoulder just a little discolored.

In my opinion, even an 85 lb Officer shouldn't have any trouble shooting a semi-auto with a recoil pad.

But if they do, they could get a compensated barrel.
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
Get a semi-automatic if you want recoil reduction.

As for me, a round of trap shooting with a double barrel twelve guage and no recoil pad left my shoulder just a little discolored.

In my opinion, even an 85 lb Officer shouldn't have any trouble shooting a semi-auto with a recoil pad.

But if they do, they could get a compensated barrel.

i am not concerned about the recoil. i can shoot skeet or trap with a double barrel 12 guage all day. i was just wondering about the difference (impact) of low recoil vs. regular 00 buckshot. thanks for everyones input.
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Old 02-20-2009, 1:03 PM
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One of my HP shooters is a south bay area (SF Bay area) LEO and his dept uses Federal LEO low recoil 00 buck and he has 2 kills with his shotgun using 00buck and one with slug (all 3 were deemed good shoots by the review board) so reduced 00buck does work.....
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Old 02-20-2009, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkdad View Post
i am not concerned about the recoil. i can shoot skeet or trap with a double barrel 12 guage all day. i was just wondering about the difference (impact) of low recoil vs. regular 00 buckshot. thanks for everyones input.
Ok, I was mostly addressing the second post, where some humans didn't like a full power load.

I guess I would shoot reduced recoil ammo if it was all I had but I would never buy it unless it was all I could get...
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Old 02-20-2009, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAhighpowershooter View Post
One of my HP shooters is a south bay area (SF Bay area) LEO and his dept uses Federal LEO low recoil 00 buck and he has 2 kills with his shotgun using 00buck and one with slug (all 3 were deemed good shoots by the review board) so reduced 00buck does work.....
that sums up everything!
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Old 02-20-2009, 8:26 PM
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I have personally always favored 3" magnum #4 buckshot. it provides around 35 ea. .30 caliber pellets depending on the load (Remington is best). Penetration and damage are devestating compared to the 10-12 ea. 00 buck pellets. In an autoloader, this gives you tremendous firepower with modest recoil.
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Old 02-20-2009, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRAhighpowershooter View Post
One of my HP shooters is a south bay area (SF Bay area) LEO and his dept uses Federal LEO low recoil 00 buck and he has 2 kills with his shotgun using 00buck and one with slug (all 3 were deemed good shoots by the review board) so reduced 00buck does work.....
Wow, thats amazing, most cops never discharge their weapon during there whole career, and hes not only fired but got 3 kills? Damn, thats one bad beat he patrols!!
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2009, 10:05 PM
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i concur that paper perhaps is not the best subject to use as an example as power potential.
i agree with the chrono experiment, or just look up the numbers
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Old 02-08-2011, 8:47 PM
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sorry to necro this thread a bit, but i was testing some of this Fiocchi LE (9-pellet, 1150 fps) vs. Remington Managed Recoil (8-pellet, 1200fps) the other night and wow... there really is a difference. the Fiocchi load almost felt lighter than some of the low-brass birdshot loads i had with me.

which leads me to one question... if you line up a high-brass shell (like the Remington) and a low-brass shell (most target/game loads), the difference is pretty apparent. what i found curious is that the Fiocchi shells are almost... "mid-brass" in that the brass is right in between high and low. weird.

anyhow, i haven't found much good ballistic data on the Fiocchi shells... curious if anyone knows of any good data? they were so light it was almost pleasurable to shoot.

as mentioned... by 15 yards i could see the difference in spread coming out of my 590A1... it's not insignificant when you cut the velocity by a chunk to cut recoil.

i can line up the shells for a picture later if people are morbidly curious. i'm a bit bummed though, LuckyGunner ran out of stock on the Fiocchi... it was super cheap (about 60 cents/shell shipped) for 250!
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