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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-11-2009, 9:24 PM
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Default Are felons allowed to go shooting?

I have a relative who is an ex-felon. His crime did not involve firearms or violence. I'm not going into further details because it shouldn't pertain to the discussion, and it's an embarrassment, so please don't pry. I am not condoning what he did or defending him.

I merely want to determine whether or not it is legal for him to shoot a gun at a range if he is supervised (i.e. not the possessor).

Thoughts?
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:28 PM
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It's not legal. Whether or not he gets caught is another thing.
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:29 PM
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Unless his felony has been cleared from his record somehow (reduced to a misdemeanor or he was granted a pardon), the answer is a very clear NO.
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:38 PM
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^ agree with above
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:47 PM
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And btw, getting a felony cleared from his record can be a pain, can be expensive, can take a lot of time... but it's probably very seriously worth considering.

As for friends with non-violent embarrassing felonies, I have a friend of a friend who got a federal felony for being a sysadmin at an offshore gaming operation. What he was doing was legal in the country he was doing it in (he lived on an island). But they decided to charge all the US citizens involved with it, and they offered him a plea bargain: accept a felony conviction and you get no prison time. He had no money to fight so that's what he did. He's one the mildest, gentlest people I know. So yeah, there are some people out there who have ended up with felonies and who are embarrassed about it because it doesn't make any sense for who they are. This guy I know, the prospect of making some money while living in an island "paradise" swayed his judgment and he didn't think through that it's illegal for any US citizen to be involved in that, even doing low-level stuff like running a Unix system, and for whatever political reason, offshore gambling was a hot topic that year, and so they got him. Never mind that there are thousands of unsolved murder cases, there are violent criminals who get lesser plea bargains, and so on... gambling prosecutions were in fashion that year and he got it.

Anyway... it's worth thinking about the effort to get such things taken off the record. For my friend-of-a-friend there, he's really stuck because it's a federal felony and his only route is a presidential pardon, which are extremely rare. Still, it's worth pursuing it. For this person you know, if it's a state-level conviction, he may have more practical options and he should at least look into them, and maybe make it a life goal to get his record cleared. It might be easier than he realizes (or maybe not).
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:48 PM
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Outside of some extremely specific circumstances (coded in the law), in the scenario you propose, he'd be a "Felon in Possession"... yet another Felony.
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Old 02-11-2009, 9:51 PM
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Not only no, but the offense could possibly put him in prison for a long time. The feds are pushing these cases rather hard, I hear. The prisons must have fresh meat...

It might be worth looking into getting it expunged, reduced, dismissed, pardoned, etc. He should consult an attorney. My take would be that it would be better to clean it up while one can, instead of trying to deal with it in the future after a "get tough on crime" bill makes such an action harder.

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Old 02-11-2009, 10:14 PM
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I think he can get his "rights", like possessing firearms and voting, reinstated without getting a pardon. The right lawyer and some money are what is needed. Too bad our legale system only works for those with money.
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2009, 10:36 PM
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Thanks guys. I thought he just wouldn't be able to own, but I'm glad I checked here first. No range visits for him!!!
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:47 PM
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I was under the impression that a felon could possess "non-firearms" such as pre-1898 Mosin Nagants, BP rifles, etc...?
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:52 PM
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Felons can't possess ammunition in addition to firearms.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:53 PM
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So what would constitute ammunition with BP?
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:16 AM
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Not only is he committing a crime, so are you. I am going through the police academy and we talked about this a while back. It goes as far to say that they also may not be able to be around a gun that they can obtain. The example that was told to me was, a police officer was married to an ex felon. He went to bed and put his duty belt and gun away in the closet. Her parole officer came over to do a routine search of the house and saw the gun. She went back to prison, and he got fired and charges brought up on him. Be very careful who you let around your guns.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:49 AM
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NO ..No guns, No ammo, no fun.
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Old 02-12-2009, 1:30 AM
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Don't confuse ownership and possession like crooks often do.

If you let him shoot your gun he's in possession of it even though you retain ownership.
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Old 02-12-2009, 7:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FS00008 View Post
I was under the impression that a felon could possess "non-firearms" such as pre-1898 Mosin Nagants, BP rifles, etc...?
Sure if, they want to get rolled up. These non-firearms are still considered firearms when loaded. If you don't believe me, try pointing a pre '98 weapon at someone while in the commission of a crime. You WILL be convicted of violation several firearms laws. Felons really need to do their own research because they are taking big risks when treading on this ground. Of course, if you knowingly furnish a felon with a firearm, I'm sure you could be in some hot water yourself.
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Old 02-12-2009, 7:11 AM
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in the book "how to own a gun and stay out of jail", in the 2000 year edition, the author gives a story about a felon who had to use a firearm for self defense.

he states in that case, it was within the SD realm and wasnt charged.
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Old 02-12-2009, 8:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ldivinag View Post
in the book "how to own a gun and stay out of jail", in the 2000 year edition, the author gives a story about a felon who had to use a firearm for self defense.

he states in that case, it was within the SD realm and wasnt charged.
Edwards in the story below is an ex-con.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?p=1933220

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No charge against him. Good news for gun owners in self defense situation.

http://cbs2.com/local/Diedree.Edward....2.915708.html

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No Charges For L.A. Man Who Killed Armed Assailant
LOS ANGELES (AP) ―
Prosecutors will not charge a Los Angeles man who was arrested for allegedly killing a man who was stabbing his girlfriend and her mother.

Prosecutors said Thursday that 29-year-old Diedree Edwards fired a handgun in self-defense and to save the women.

Police said Edwards heard screams on Tuesday from the parking lot of an apartment complex in southwest Los Angeles and found Rhett Wilkins attacking the women with a knife.

Deputy District Attorney David R. Lopez said Edwards grabbed the gun from the older woman's closet and fired three times at Wilkins.

Edwards then fled to a nearby apartment as police arrived and barricaded himself for several hours. He surrendered after police threw tear gas canisters through his window.

Lopez said Edwards had been staying with the women because they had been threatened by Wilkins, the older woman's former boyfriend.

( 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2009, 8:47 AM
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If it's a public range, your felon buddy will be filling out and signing a liability waiver that will include the questions: Have you ever been convicted of crime, on probation, slept with Big Bubba, etc. He'll have to answer truthfully and the range officer signing him in will most likely reject his entrance.
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Old 02-12-2009, 9:12 AM
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"possession or control". pre 1898 guns seen to be alright but the ammo restriction kind of kills that. i think bp is ok.
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Old 02-12-2009, 9:50 AM
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Would it be ok if your ex-felon buddy went camping with you and a group of people in the desert where lawful shooting takes place? This individual wouldn't shoot or load mags, just watch. Also, do BLM officers have access to data in the field where they could check if someone was a felon?
Sorry for the thread hijack, this is a very good subject and the answers to this may keep some of us out of trouble.

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Old 02-12-2009, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lbdrummer3 View Post
Would it be ok if your ex-felon buddy went camping with you and a group of people in the desert where lawful shooting takes place? This individual wouldn't shoot or load mags, just watch. Also, do BLM officers have access to data in the field where they could check if someone was a felon?
Sorry for the thread hijack, this is a very good subject and the answers to this may keep some of us out of trouble.
If it can be argued that he has access to firearms or ammo then, it is not in his best interest. If there are firearms or ammo anywhere within your camp, most DAs will be able to prove that he had access to them. Yes, BLM LEOs have the same access to personal info as any other LEO.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
If it can be argued that he has access to firearms or ammo then, it is not in his best interest. If there are firearms or ammo anywhere within your camp, most DAs will be able to prove that he had access to them. Yes, BLM LEOs have the same access to personal info as any other LEO.
Cool, so from the ex-felons perspective, it would be a very bad idea for him to attend. What, if any, issues could the legal firearms owners encounter by the presents of this individual?
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
"possession or control". pre 1898 guns seen to be alright but the ammo restriction kind of kills that. i think bp is ok.
In the State of California a convicted felon,or qualifying misdemeanor may not possess or control any kind of firearm or ammunition,Primers,Black powder,lead ball or shot,antique firearm or replica firearm or replica of a antique or modern firearm,no pellet guns,BB guns,sling shots,Airsoft,potato cannon or anything that even ressembles any type of firearm,or device capable of launching a projectile. Do not believe me?,call the DOJ and ask them.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:33 AM
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You totally forgot water gun.. ........ Would a super soaker be ok???.......If so maybe felons can take super soakers to the range....


So what if a felon was an avid hunter prior to the felony, Im sure at some point he would have to have the erg to go hunting at some point right. So what if instead of using a rifle to hunts with, they used a power washer capable of reach as far as a shoot gun?


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Old 02-12-2009, 10:44 AM
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I have some experiance with this. My father the man who taught me to shoot, and hunt went down the wrong path a while ago and got into some trouble, federal felony. He was allowed to stay with me at my home, however I hade to put a deadbolt lock on my bedroom door, his door, and put my firearms in a safe in my room to satisfy his probation officer. If he had access to the firearms at all he and I were in hot water. Last september I took my 9 year old for his first dove hunt, as my father did me at 9 years old. We ran it by hi Probation officer and nope grandpa couldent go, as while we were sleeping in the tent he would have access... My recomendation stay away from the issue. if you are in doubt ask his Probation officer.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lbdrummer3 View Post
Cool, so from the ex-felons perspective, it would be a very bad idea for him to attend. What, if any, issues could the legal firearms owners encounter by the presents of this individual?
I have a funny feeling that they could get you for illegally transfering a firearm to a felon or something like that. For me, and the few felons I know, it's not worth the risk for any of us. It really sucks because I wanted to get one of them into re-enacting in my unit which has several lawyers and LEOs in it. He would have been well supervised and made some good respectible friends, helped educate the public and learn a lot of history himself. Instead, the way the laws are written, a felon should not even go near a re-enactment as a spectator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garandguy10 View Post
In the State of California a convicted felon,or qualifying misdemeanor may not possess or control any kind of firearm or ammunition,Primers,Black powder,lead ball or shot,antique firearm or replica firearm or replica of a antique or modern firearm,no pellet guns,BB guns,sling shots,Airsoft,potato cannon or anything that even ressembles any type of firearm,or device capable of launching a projectile. Do not believe me?,call the DOJ and ask them.
I have called them about this and other things. Of course, we all know that they routinely give about BAD legal advise! But, in this case, I would not put myself or a felon at risk by pushing the envelope here.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wildog8812 View Post
Not only is he committing a crime, so are you. I am going through the police academy and we talked about this a while back. It goes as far to say that they also may not be able to be around a gun that they can obtain. The example that was told to me was, a police officer was married to an ex felon. He went to bed and put his duty belt and gun away in the closet. Her parole officer came over to do a routine search of the house and saw the gun. She went back to prison, and he got fired and charges brought up on him. Be very careful who you let around your guns.
What crime would the gun owner be committing? Please provide a citation.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjerr View Post
I have a relative who is an ex-felon. His crime did not involve firearms or violence. I'm not going into further details because it shouldn't pertain to the discussion, and it's an embarrassment, so please don't pry. I am not condoning what he did or defending him.

I merely want to determine whether or not it is legal for him to shoot a gun at a range if he is supervised (i.e. not the possessor).

Thoughts?
ex felon? either he is or he is not a felon.
if he is, he can go watch somebody shoot but cannot hold a weapon. if somehow he got pardoned wich hardly ever happens then yes he can go shooting.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:06 AM
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I have some experiance with this. My father the man who taught me to shoot, and hunt went down the wrong path a while ago and got into some trouble, federal felony. He was allowed to stay with me at my home, however I hade to put a deadbolt lock on my bedroom door, his door, and put my firearms in a safe in my room to satisfy his probation officer. If he had access to the firearms at all he and I were in hot water. Last september I took my 9 year old for his first dove hunt, as my father did me at 9 years old. We ran it by hi Probation officer and nope grandpa couldent go, as while we were sleeping in the tent he would have access... My recomendation stay away from the issue. if you are in doubt ask his Probation officer.
You are lucky your dad got a reasonable PO. My dad is a retired federal LEO and my brother, who has spent a couple years as a state fire fighter (getting paid peenies per hour), won't go to my parents house because of the contents my father's safes. When he had a PO, the PO told him that he would be rolled up if he was "caught" there.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:30 AM
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nope
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:33 AM
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Never seen any charged for conspiracy to commit felon posses firearm, but its not beyond the relm of possibility. And conspiracy is a felony.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by YoungGun2 View Post
You totally forgot water gun.. ........ Would a super soaker be ok???.......If so maybe felons can take super soakers to the range....


So what if a felon was an avid hunter prior to the felony, Im sure at some point he would have to have the erg to go hunting at some point right. So what if instead of using a rifle to hunts with, they used a power washer capable of reach as far as a shoot gun?


RK-41-2A Hot High Pressure Power Wash Rig

Specifications: 3,000 PSI, 5 GPM, 200 F, 16 HP Electric Start Vanguard Gasoline Engine


Description: RK-41 Hot High Pressure Washer, 525 Gallon Water Tank, 6.5' x 16' double axle trailer with electric brakes on one axle and 2 inch ball hitch, 2 High Pressure Hose Reels with 150 Feet of High Pressure Hose and 110 feet of fill water hose, Trigger Gun, 36" wand, 79" wand, and 0, 15, 25, & 40 degree nozzles, and high side injector kit for acid. Dimensions: 8' W x 19'3' L x 6' H, Weight: 2,215 pounds

Price: $10,340.00
Super soaker not ok [offensive.defensive weapon,could be used to disperse poison] High pressure washer,may be ok.if it is used during legitamate employment,ifused as any kind of offensive/defensive weapon,likely a Felony,no kidding. FELONS CAN NOT BE AROUND OR USE ANY KIND OF FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION.
The only exception that I am aware of is possibly for Theatrical performances [License,Permits,DOJ prior permission required]
Plenty of Felon Actors in Hollywood.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:30 PM
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I should've clarified "ex-felon" as meaning "no longer on parole". I know that people on parole or probation have extra limitations.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:42 PM
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Super soaker not ok [offensive.defensive weapon,could be used to disperse poison]
I trust you're being sarcastic. A squirt gun could be used to disperse "poison" so felons can't have it? IANAL but I don't buy that for a second.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:43 PM
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The irony is that a felon can actually still own a gun, but can't possess it. In other words, the felon can have firearms still registered to him, but have them in the possession of a third-party.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:45 PM
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A drinking straw can disperse a poisionous dart if used as a blowgun. So, does that mean Felons can't get a Value Meal unless they specify "no straw". Or, if I bought a regular Value Meal and gave it to a felon, could I be in trouble for a straw purchase?
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Old 02-12-2009, 1:25 PM
Cypren Cypren is offline
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
A drinking straw can disperse a poisionous dart if used as a blowgun. So, does that mean Felons can't get a Value Meal unless they specify "no straw". Or, if I bought a regular Value Meal and gave it to a felon, could I be in trouble for a straw purchase?
No, you're forgetting that the cup can be used to hold poison that can be THROWN at an unsuspecting victim!

Apparently, we need to make sure all McDonalds locations get FFLs.
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Old 02-12-2009, 1:30 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
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The irony is that a felon can actually still own a gun, but can't possess it. In other words, the felon can have firearms still registered to him, but have them in the possession of a third-party.
Really? What gives you that idea? Once someone becomes a prohibited person due to a criminal conviction, they have a certain amount of time to divest themselves of possession and ownership.
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Last edited by ohsmily; 02-12-2009 at 1:52 PM..
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Old 02-12-2009, 1:36 PM
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CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
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The irony is that a felon can actually still own a gun, but can't possess it. In other words, the felon can have firearms still registered to him, but have them in the possession of a third-party.
Maybe you are thinking of someone who has a RO against them. A convicted felon can not own a firearm PERIOD! If you can show me that I'm wrong, I'll let you shoot a few rounds through one of my 50s this sunday at Angeles. OK, if you can't prove it, come on out anyway. I'll still let you shoot a round or two.
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