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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-02-2009, 9:06 PM
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Default " (OC) Sheriff officials emails show combative views toward gun activists"

Sorry if this has been posted:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/s...tivists-county

Sheriff officials emails show combative views toward gun activists
A series of emails detail sheriffs' officials disparaging activists and county supervisors protesting new gun policies.
BY NORBERTO SANTANA JR. AND TONY SAAVEDRA
The Orange County Register
Comments 41 | Recommend 12

Transcripts of text messages sent by Orange County sheriff's officials during a November 2008 Board of Supervisors meeting shows the law enforcement leaders using their cell phones to ridicule activists and even supervisors during a public hearing on gun permit policies.

The messages, obtained under a public records request by a group named Ordinary California Citizens Concerned with Safety, reveal a combative tone by sheriff's command staff toward the activists. Some county supervisors questioned whether that defensiveness triggered the large security presence that met activists when they returned to a January meeting seeking to again criticize Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' gun policies.

"We are locked in mortal battle…It is ugly. We will survive however," wrote Assistant Sheriff Mike Hillmann as he sat in the audience at 1:17 pm during the November 18 board meeting.

Hillmann, a former LAPD deputy chief recruited by Hutchens to help reform Orange County's troubled department, made fun of County Supervisor Janet Nguyen – a vocal critic of Hutchen's CCW policies. Hillmann texted: "I hope Janet has a pet she can call a friend."

Nguyen said she was shocked by the tone of the texts and was having her staff review more than 300 pages of the messages.

"It clearly shows the attitude that's over at that department. It shows no respect," Nguyen said. "It shows clearly they have no respect for us as a governing body, much less the residents."

Sheriff Sandra Hutchens apologized for what she called the unprofessional conduct of staff members, but stressed the opinions revealed by the text messages had nothing to do with the increased security at the next board meeting. Hutchens added that she appreciated the input from those who disagree with her concealed weapons policies.

"Clearly, I do not condone comments that were made on the emails and I have admonished those that participated in that as being unprofessional conduct and I do not expect that to occur again," Hutchens said. She said the department policy is that agency-issued blackberries are to be used for business only.

By the next meeting on gun permit issues on January 13, gun activists were confronted by a very different boardroom.

Large placards in the front lobby read, "No Firearms allowed." Responding to a series of unspecified threats, numerous plainclothes investigators and uniformed SWAT deputies were out in full force. Activists wearing green buttons that read CCW said they felt intimidated as they approached the dais to offer comments. Three people wearing green buttons were questioned but no one was detained and no firearms were confiscated.

Supervisor Chris Norby said the texts gave credence to accusations that sheriff's officials increased security at the next meeting to stifle opposition.

"I think they were surprised, taken aback (by the Nov. 18 meeting) and when they thought it was going to be repeated, they treated that as a security issue," Norby said.

He also said the text messages raises questions about the command staff.

"It sounds like there is a serious control issue there," Norby said. "These are her top deputies that advise her and (they are texting) at county expense and on county equipment and they are belittling the public."

During the Nov. 18 meeting, hundreds of concealed weapons activists showed up to let supervisors know they opposed the new policies adopted by Hutchens. After taking office, Hutchens announced she would tighten the permit policies relaxed during the tenure of former Sheriff Mike Carona.

That has triggered a fierce backlash by activists, the National Rifle Association and even the board of supervisors.

During the November hearing, one by one, a row of activists took to the microphone at the board of supervisors and told Hutchens that her policies were unfair and a bad fit for a county known as Republican and pro-second Amendment. The meeting lasted hours and by the end, most county supervisors had joined in criticizing. Hutchens' approach to the gun permits.

The emails released to the activist group highlight how uncomfortable Sheriff's officials were at the hearing.

Shortly after 2 pm, at the November meeting, R.J. Morris, a CCW activist who had applied for a gun permit, got up to offer his critique.

Sheriff's officials immediately cyber-insulted Morris, who wears a bow tie and tinted glasses, through a series of text messages.

"Is that Elton John?" wrote department spokesman Damon Micalizzi.

One secretary sent Hillmann a message, "That guy that is up speaking now is CREEPY!! Nice hair and nice bow tie."

Hillmann replied, "That is the new investigator and gang officer attire."

Morris, 56, who is a airline transport pilot, said he was "shocked" at the lack of professionalism in the email communications. The North Tustin resident was also deeply hurt given the fact that he has expressed interest in helping the department upgrade its air squadron.

"It makes me feel embarrassed that I've supported the sheriff," said Morris. "It makes me look like a fool."

Morris, who was among the most neutral of department critics on the gun policy issue, insists that "just because we're at odds with the administration, it in no means degrades our appreciation to the men and women who serve."

Nevertheless, assistant sheriff Hillmann, toward the end of a long hearing, texted an agent with the FBI: "This has been unbelievable. Am ready to stick a pencil in my eye."

Although the text messages showed a defensiveness among high-level sheriff's officials, Hutchens said she does not see the department as being engaged in combat with the CCW advocates.

"I don't see them as enemies. I see it as a healthy debate," Hutchens said. "If anybody needs to be listening it's me."
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2009, 9:23 PM
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I know very little of the situation down there, but it sounds like the Board of Supervisors have a good idea of what's what down there. Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2009, 9:29 PM
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I can see folks losing their jobs, or at the very least, getting a letter of censure/reprimand over this. They probally didnt expect this stuff to be mae public!
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Old 02-02-2009, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormfeather View Post
I can see folks losing their jobs, or at the very least, getting a letter of censure/reprimand over this. They probally didnt expect this stuff to be mae public!
I doubt that it will go that far, especially when the boss shares the same sentiments. "Reprimands" will let the department save a little face, but not really punish the behavior.
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Old 02-02-2009, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by active_shooter View Post
"I don't see them as enemies. I see it as a healthy debate," Hutchens said. "If anybody needs to be listening it's me."
And yet you clearly are NOT listening. Both Hutchens and Hillmann absolutely need to be ousted. What other place of business would this kind of utter lack of respect and professionalism fly? What a disgrace.
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2009, 9:40 PM
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If one of the agency second in commands was acting that unprofessionally he really needs to go someplace else. Maybe to be COP in a city within a state that has shall issue.

Then watch his knickers get in a wad.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2009, 9:53 PM
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This administration shows an utter contempt for the law abiding average guy. Why? Because Mr average citizen wants to carry a concealed weapon I will stop here because I have been drinking a bit and what would come next wouldn't be pretty...................... We need to find 2010's candidate for sheriff and get the ball rolling on Hutchens defeat
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2009, 9:56 PM
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WOW! Busted! There should be some suspensions for sure on this one.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:43 PM
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Supervisor Chris Norby said the texts gave credence to accusations that sheriff's officials increased security at the next meeting to stifle opposition.
Sufficient cause, IMO, for the board to revoke Hutchen's appointment and fire Hillmann.

Whenever the police powers use their presence to intimidate those in opposition to its goals we are on the edge of losing our form of republican democracy. It is 3rd world countries that put their bully-men into civic meetings to quash dissent and identify citizens for "lessons" later, not America.

I would hope that the board has issued a clear message to Hutchens that they won't tolerate that kind of police behavior again. Nor the unprofessional conduct. But, were I the head of the council, I'd be asking if others were in favor of a no-confidence vote on the Sheriff and her assistant.

Hutchens is free to investigate any person holding an O.C. CCW permit and revoke that permit if her staff finds any evidence of corrupt influence involved in obtaining the permit. That's the way the system is supposed to work. Unfortunately, Hutchens and her Geheim Staatspolizei[1] mentality seems to demand that these people prove they didn't do something instead.

Last edited by BillCA; 02-02-2009 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:37 PM
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How pathetic.

I lived under a military dictatorship, and this is nothing but Banana Republic behavior.

Next thing you know, these jerks are going to wear brown shirts.

To intimidate the population by the use of police force in matters of citizens' constitutional rights is nothing more than totalitarian bullsh*t.

I am amazed and also ashamed that this is happening in the country that I love and swore to defend.

I wonder what qualifies as a domestic enemy, under the oath I swore to obey.

Insulting and pathetic.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:56 PM
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Pathetic doesn't describe it well. Hillman should be fired, and Hutchinson better resign.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2009, 1:04 AM
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Default Sheriff officials emails show combative views toward gun activists??

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/s...tivists-county

Does RJ Morris really look like "Elton John"?
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2009, 5:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
And yet you clearly are NOT listening. Both Hutchens and Hillmann absolutely need to be ousted. What other place of business would this kind of utter lack of respect and professionalism fly? What a disgrace.
+1

If the perspective of utter contempt and condescension toward law-abiding, taxpaying citizens were instead only confined to the criminals, I might not feel insulted by the tone of those communications.

But the comments made to and about the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens show that those employees of ours regard us as nothing more than insects.

Their ridicule of us--for now completely powerless against them--reminds me of the kind of kids who would mock the "retarded" kids at school, who were completely powerless.

Those comments are sick and wrong.

I wonder how funny they would think it all was if the topic of the meeting was the following question: "SHOULD OCSD DEPUTIES BE ALLOWED TO CARRY FIREARMS WHILE ON PATROL?"

These guys forget that in some countries law enforcement officers are required to do their job unarmed.

It would be very interesting indeed to see the looks on their faces if a motion were put forward to require that OCSD deputies go around the county unarmed.

It is unfortunate that no one seems to have used the seat belt analogy to clarify why we want to be legally allowed to carry a concealed, loaded firearm for purposes of lawful self-defense.

We wear a seatbelt every day not because we are "afraid" or "living in fear" of getting in an accident.

Most of us go years without any accidents.

We wear a seatbelt every day because we are safer if we do than if we don't--it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

The same goes for lawful concealed carry for purposes of lawful self-defense: it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

That is all.

For us, the carrying of a concealed, loaded firearm for purposes of lawful self-defense is a safety procedure exactly analogous to strapping on a seat belt--nothing more and nothing less.

It is unfortunate that some members of OCSD look down on the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens who pay their salaries.

Their contempt for us naturally raises the suspicion that this attitude is the shared but unspoken attitude harbored by the rest of the OCSD toward the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens who pay their salaries.

Supervisor Moorlach has a great deal of impatience with OCSD arrogance; he might make an effective ally in the CCW cause . . . just a thought.

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Old 02-03-2009, 5:24 AM
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What does this woman have to do to get removed from her post?!

Of course I will get labeled as a "LEO basher", but I think the records from the last two FIOA requests show what we peon citizens already know-- LEO in general treat us as if we are subjects to be herded and nothing more.

It is the few that don't fall into that line of thinking that are the exceptions---not the other way around. Oddly, we have a disproportionate amount of those exceptions on CalGuns.net and I'm very happy to be able to say that.

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  #15  
Old 02-03-2009, 5:27 AM
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+1000 on everything up until here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
+1

Supervisor Moorlach has a great deal of impatience with OCSD arrogance; he might make an effective ally in the CCW cause . . . just a thought.

Moorlach has been one of her biggest supporters, and still is. He is playing the Flying Monkey to her Wicked Witch of the West. His Chief of Staff was the one who prepared a big PowerPoint presentation for the Nov 18th meeting (where these e-mails were generated), which was designed to bolster the Sheriff's anti-CCW position. He is the one who compared CCWers to rednecks with rifle racks in their pickups. Clearly, he is no friend of lawful gun owners.
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Old 02-03-2009, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tango-52 View Post
+1000 on everything up until here:



Moorlach has been one of her biggest supporters, and still is. He is playing the Flying Monkey to her Wicked Witch of the West. His Chief of Staff was the one who prepared a big PowerPoint presentation for the Nov 18th meeting (where these e-mails were generated), which was designed to bolster the Sheriff's anti-CCW position. He is the one who compared CCWers to rednecks with rifle racks in their pickups. Clearly, he is no friend of lawful gun owners.
That's unfortunate.

It is too bad that we cannot swing him to the CCW cause.

He seems to have a lot of enthusiasm for locking horns with OCSD.

But if he is Hutchens' slave, then we'd might as well forget it.

She has no concept of the meaning of the Second Amendment or of the human right it bespeaks.

Oh well, we'll need to make allies elsewhere.

Onward and upward!
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Old 02-03-2009, 6:15 AM
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Norby and Ngyuen are definitely on the side of gun owners, especially since OCCCWS discovered that the Sheriff was spying on them in the BOS meeting. Campbell and Bates lean strongly toward our side. Moorlach is no longer the Chairman, Bates is now. It is only going to get increasingly painful for the Sheriff to appear before the BOS as more and more is discovered through OCCCWS' PRARs.
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Old 02-03-2009, 6:30 AM
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They sound like a 'select militia' that the founding fathers feared...
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Old 02-03-2009, 6:40 AM
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Here's a link to the actual e-mail snapshots of their blackberry communications.

http://www.occcws.com/?p=542

Utterly disgusting.
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Old 02-03-2009, 7:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig226 View Post
What does this woman have to do to get removed from her post?!

Of course I will get labeled as a "LEO basher", but I think the records from the last two FIOA requests show what we peon citizens already know-- LEO in general treat us as if we are subjects to be herded and nothing more.

It is the few that don't fall into that line of thinking that are the exceptions---not the other way around. Oddly, we have a disproportionate amount of those exceptions on CalGuns.net and I'm very happy to be able to say that.

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I don't think that's the case at all. In my estimation there is a great difference between the "big city" chiefs - politicians in uniform - and the real cops doing real LE work.

I'm up north so she doesn't have an impact, but whatever happened to at least having the common decency to behave for a while on your new job. Get settled a bit before letting the people who hired you know what a pain in the butt you can be?
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Old 02-03-2009, 7:18 AM
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No one, who demonstrated the attitude towards the public that this group has, should be in any kind of position which gives them authority over others. They need to be at the very least suspended without pay, if not fired.
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Old 02-03-2009, 7:32 AM
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The sense of entitlement by the OCSO is pretty shocking. Do they not realize who they work for? It's the people, not just the county government. All of those elected folks know who butters their bread, and know how to play the game -- apparently Hutchens is in way over her head, and knows nothing about politics. I'm also questioning her credentials at this point, and wondering how much affirmative action (which is still legal in public safety, as anyone who has applied for a PD or FD job knows) played a part in the rise of her career.
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Old 02-03-2009, 7:52 AM
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She just comes from LAPD, and shares their leadership's general attitude. The difference is that L.A. County supervisors and L.A. City Hall actually encourage such attitudes.
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Old 02-03-2009, 8:27 AM
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She just comes from LAPD, and shares their leadership's general attitude. The difference is that L.A. County supervisors and L.A. City Hall actually encourage such attitudes.
If it was just her, that would be one thing, but her whole staff, all from different backgrounds, were doing the same thing. There's definitely an attitude of "us vs. them" in her organization's culture (or at least for her staff), rather than "What can we do for the community?" Funny to think that they are antagonizing some of the folks who pay the most taxes (like that airline pilot they called "elton john") and are some of the most law abiding and community-minded. It's going to be a real short term for her.
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Old 02-03-2009, 8:30 AM
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What did they expect? They hired an ex Los angeles Sheriff's Department employee. One of Leroy Baca's people. Hillman was a big muckity-muck in LAPD SWAT. Those clowns think there God's chosen few. It only underscores the need for "Shall-Issue" in California. Something we won't get as long as gun owners don't vote for their guns.
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Old 02-03-2009, 8:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
If one of the agency second in commands was acting that unprofessionally he really needs to go someplace else. Maybe to be COP in a city within a state that has shall issue.

Then watch his knickers get in a wad.


That happened once. An LAPD captain got hired as CoP in a city in Vermont. When he found out that there was no CCW required in Vermont, he asked the city to pass an ordinance banning concealed carry. They fired him.
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Old 02-03-2009, 8:49 AM
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merged two threads.
Please continue.
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Old 02-03-2009, 8:50 AM
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I seem to recall a post a while back where the question was "are cops anti-gun?" or at least "are cops against citizens RTKBA?" And we had a great many write in and say that no no the rank and file under the figure heads are all for it (or words to that affect). Well, here it is. Cops (not just the figureheads and department chiefs) are NOT on our side. THEY have THEIRS. THEY have THEIR guns. Why in the world would THEY want US to have the same power?

Earlier in this post someone wrote and asked how the cops would like it if they had to patrol unarmed. Never mind that hyperbole, what about having them turn in their guns at the end of the day? How many of THEM would be willing to go home unarmed and worry about defending their families unarmed (just like THEY want US to do)

If you don't think it's US vs. THEM just read some of these e-mails.
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Old 02-03-2009, 9:00 AM
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All that and LASD/LAPD still make them look like patron saints of the NRA.
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:12 AM
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It is bad enough we have to fight this crap at the local level, now we are going to be fighting this crap at the Federal level with Eric Holder being confirmed as AG.
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  #31  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:17 AM
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The ultimate goal is to put so much pressure on all of the bad players involved that they have no choice to resign in order to save their careers. The time for civil discourse is over, and your goal here is to make every step of the process as painful as possible, and drag their names through the media at every step.

The higher the tension level the more successful you will be at causing Sandra to say "the **** with this, I'm out of here".

I speak from experience here.

I remember, I have a very important phone call to make to someone... We had an illness last week and I was out.

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  #32  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:21 AM
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Doing my best to spread the word.
2000+ page visitors since I posted the story, 2 hours 21 minutes ago
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:27 AM
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As one of the individuals associated with OCCCWS responsible for analyzing the messages received via our PRA, I can share a few facts:

Over 300 pages of 'messages' were received. 95% was garbage attachments.

OCSD provided NO responsive messages from the inbox or outbox of Sheriff Hutchens. Only two messages bearing her name were even provided, both as parts of a reply chain from another OCSD employee.

OCSD brass were messaging as they desperately tried to whip up some community support for her position, reporting to each other that two individuals had made contact and would like to speak to the BOS.

OCSD employees messages each other about the confidential good cause of a stalker victim.

OCCCWS has filed a follow up PRA request instructing OCSD to 'check again' as to the requested communications. We expect to report back when those documents do/don't arrive.

The type of behavior seen in these messages, and in a larger sense by the wholesale witholding of public information (the sheriff's e-mails, the security footage from the 1-13 BOS meeting), is why it is imperative that as many people as possible show up at the 2-10 BOS meeting and speak out against this behavior in a respectful, but forceful, manner.
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  #34  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djandj View Post
I seem to recall a post a while back where the question was "are cops anti-gun?" or at least "are cops against citizens RTKBA?" And we had a great many write in and say that no no the rank and file under the figure heads are all for it (or words to that affect). Well, here it is. Cops (not just the figureheads and department chiefs) are NOT on our side. THEY have THEIRS. THEY have THEIR guns. Why in the world would THEY want US to have the same power?

Earlier in this post someone wrote and asked how the cops would like it if they had to patrol unarmed. Never mind that hyperbole, what about having them turn in their guns at the end of the day? How many of THEM would be willing to go home unarmed and worry about defending their families unarmed (just like THEY want US to do)

If you don't think it's US vs. THEM just read some of these e-mails.
We're still talking about the top cops, i.e. politicians here. Not to mention many of them coming from L.A. County and promoting the same culture. We have more cops on this board than that
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  #35  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
+1

If the perspective of utter contempt and condescension toward law-abiding, taxpaying citizens were instead only confined to the criminals, I might not feel insulted by the tone of those communications.

But the comments made to and about the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens show that those employees of ours regard us as nothing more than insects.

Their ridicule of us--for now completely powerless against them--reminds me of the kind of kids who would mock the "retarded" kids at school, who were completely powerless.

Those comments are sick and wrong.

I wonder how funny they would think it all was if the topic of the meeting was the following question: "SHOULD OCSD DEPUTIES BE ALLOWED TO CARRY FIREARMS WHILE ON PATROL?"

These guys forget that in some countries law enforcement officers are required to do their job unarmed.

It would be very interesting indeed to see the looks on their faces if a motion were put forward to require that OCSD deputies go around the county unarmed.

It is unfortunate that no one seems to have used the seat belt analogy to clarify why we want to be legally allowed to carry a concealed, loaded firearm for purposes of lawful self-defense.

We wear a seatbelt every day not because we are "afraid" or "living in fear" of getting in an accident.

Most of us go years without any accidents.

We wear a seatbelt every day because we are safer if we do than if we don't--it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

The same goes for lawful concealed carry for purposes of lawful self-defense: it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

That is all.

For us, the carrying of a concealed, loaded firearm for purposes of lawful self-defense is a safety procedure exactly analogous to strapping on a seat belt--nothing more and nothing less.

It is unfortunate that some members of OCSD look down on the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens who pay their salaries.

Their contempt for us naturally raises the suspicion that this attitude is the shared but unspoken attitude harbored by the rest of the OCSD toward the law-abiding, taxpaying citizens who pay their salaries.

Supervisor Moorlach has a great deal of impatience with OCSD arrogance; he might make an effective ally in the CCW cause . . . just a thought.

I could not agree more
Except for "Supervisor Moorlach has a great deal of impatience with OCSD arrogance; he might make an effective ally in the CCW cause . . . just a thought"
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Last edited by skateboarder74; 02-03-2009 at 9:55 AM..
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  #36  
Old 02-03-2009, 9:55 AM
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There is nothing suprising in the OCSO's senior staff behavior. It is revolting, unprofessional, and indicates how stupid with power they have gotten to let it get out in the open, but definitely not suprising. OC and LA have become the poster children for LE administrations that mirror the absolutely arrogant and holier than thou mindset of the political demogogues that give them their jobs and budgets, hence give them their power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torsf View Post
They sound like a 'select militia' that the founding fathers feared...
That's exactly what many of the CA (and other) metropolitan LE agencies have become. The politicians that have created these monsters then use them as scapegoats for their inability to solve the crime and gang and any other problem (pick one) that they have promised to unequivocally solve in return for our votes.

And as for the belief that most of the rank and file LEO's are actually pro 2A, pro civilian gun ownership, pro civilian gun posession, I firmly believe that that is you father's LEO on the street, and a few of those left from that generation. It is not the current generation that was trained and have only served under this type of administration and command structure. They have been firmly trained that civilians with guns are dangerous to their survival - period!

As for Sherif Hutchens and her command staff, the only crime or mistake they will be called for will be that of the stupidity of arousing the masses against them and their political masters. Think for a bit about what the result would have been is she had instead of announcing profoundly and jumping on her CCW reform with both feet, simply and very quietly began reviewing a few CCW's at a time, waiting for expirations to deny renewals without any fanfare, and basically used some simple common sense in this matter. I seriously doubt that we would be aware of her actions even now, and the BOS would certainly not have her in their sights - there would have been no hue and cry yet, they would not have been made to look like they had lost control of the SO.

The real scary part of all of this is that they (LE Chiefs, Sheriffs, and their command staffs) so firmly believe in their power over the citizens that they are stupid drunk with it. So drunk with it that they fear no consequences for their actions, and then fail to even realize how inappropriate their actions really are.
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  #37  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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Hi Jim,

We should talk sometime. I had a run in some years ago with a certain town council that started acting like this...

Regards,


SwissFluCase
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  #38  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skateboarder74 View Post
I could not agree more
Except for "Supervisor Moorlach has a great deal of impatience with OCSD arrogance; he might make an effective ally in the CCW cause . . . just a thought"
Yes, Moorlach is literally in bed with Hutchens. He is just CYA'ng himself now.
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  #39  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairfaxjim View Post
There is nothing suprising in the OCSO's senior staff behavior. It is revolting, unprofessional, and indicates how stupid with power they have gotten to let it get out in the open, but definitely not suprising. OC and LA have become the poster children for LE administrations that mirror the absolutely arrogant and holier than thou mindset of the political demogogues that give them their jobs and budgets, hence give them their power.



That's exactly what many of the CA (and other) metropolitan LE agencies have become. The politicians that have created these monsters then use them as scapegoats for their inability to solve the crime and gang and any other problem (pick one) that they have promised to unequivocally solve in return for our votes.

And as for the belief that most of the rank and file LEO's are actually pro 2A, pro civilian gun ownership, pro civilian gun posession, I firmly believe that that is you father's LEO on the street, and a few of those left from that generation. It is not the current generation that was trained and have only served under this type of administration and command structure. They have been firmly trained that civilians with guns are dangerous to their survival - period!

As for Sherif Hutchens and her command staff, the only crime or mistake they will be called for will be that of the stupidity of arousing the masses against them and their political masters. Think for a bit about what the result would have been is she had instead of announcing profoundly and jumping on her CCW reform with both feet, simply and very quietly began reviewing a few CCW's at a time, waiting for expirations to deny renewals without any fanfare, and basically used some simple common sense in this matter. I seriously doubt that we would be aware of her actions even now, and the BOS would certainly not have her in their sights - there would have been no hue and cry yet, they would not have been made to look like they had lost control of the SO.

The real scary part of all of this is that they (LE Chiefs, Sheriffs, and their command staffs) so firmly believe in their power over the citizens that they are stupid drunk with it. So drunk with it that they fear no consequences for their actions, and then fail to even realize how inappropriate their actions really are.
Makes sense.
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  #40  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:52 AM
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Gallows humor is not something you expect from Administrators.
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