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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-29-2009, 1:54 AM
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Default HR 2467 "Hate", Ammo ban, AW ban/HR 45, HR 2159, Brady effort, Whitehouse web site

Mods, please sticky - AngelDecoys is right, we have to try.

In the last 6 months we've seen multiple postings about
  • Ammunition serialization - claiming all ammo will have to have numbers, unnumbered ammo will be illegal
  • New Brady plans for its agenda, primarily via Alan Korwin
  • HR 45, a new AW ban and
  • the Whitehouse.gov page including support for an 'assault weapon' ban.
  • HR 2467, including Alcee Hasting's 'Hate Group' amendment
Yes.

We know about these.

Please don't post about them - at least, not about their existence. If some progress happens, add it to the bottom of this thread.

HR 2467 is known - see a calming analysis here.

The Ammo Serialization bills have been proposed and defeated everywhere offered, even in California (in 2006). They're sponsored by the company that hopes to make money on it. It hasn't been introduced in California since 2006 - but it could be, and several of us are watching. You can, too - look at
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/...l_author_topic
and
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/...l_author_topic
and search the files for 'ammunition' or 'firearms'

Mr Korwin's article on Brady plans is well known
Quote:
Gun Law Update by Alan Korwin,
Author Gun Laws of America Jan. 5, 2008

Gun-ban list proposed

Slipping below the radar (or under the short-term memory cap), the Democrats
have already leaked a gun-ban list, even under the Bush administration when
they knew full well it had no chance of passage (HR 1022, 110th Congress).
It serves as a framework for the new list the Brady's plan to introduce
shortly.
Brady does this stuff all the time. It's certainly worth watching, but we'll need to see bills. Here's how to find the bills: go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ and enter "weapon" or "firearms" in the search box. January 29, that brings up 9 bills, including the next item.

Mr Rush's HR45 - "Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 " is available through thomas.gov.

He introduced it in 2007, too. It went nowhere. Again, it's worth watching, but until it moves out of the Judiciary Committee, it isn't interesting.

A renewal of the AW ban is a perennial action since the sunset in 2004; these are the easily found ones:
Quote:
1 . [110th] Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)[H.R.1022.IH ]
2 . [107th] Assault Weapon Ban Enhancement Act of 2002 (Introduced in House)[H.R.3751.IH ]
3 . [109th] Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)[S.645.IS ]
4 . [110th] Anti-Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)[H.R.1859.IH ]
5 . [108th] Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003 (Introduced in Senate)[S.1431.IS ]
6 . [109th] Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)[H.R.1312.IH ]
7 . [108th] Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)[H.R.2038.IH ]
8 . [108th] Assault Weapon Ban Enhancement Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)[H.R.143.IH ]
12 . [110th] Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008 (Introduced in House)[H.R.6257.IH]
17 . [109th] Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)[S.620.IS ]
18 . [108th] To reinstate the repealed criminal provisions relating to assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. (Introduced in House)[H.R.5099.IH ]
Remember the Dems had a majority from the 2006 election - and the 2007 and 2008 versions did not pass.

The whitehouse.gov is just a copy of the Obama campaign web site.
Quote:
Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
It's no surprise - it's been up for months, and President Obama is unlikely to work against anything he's advocated.

UPDATE 5/8/09
HR 2159 see its thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=182061

There's probably 50 threads on all of these together, mostly because the older ones keep scrolling off the front page, and new members don't look any further, and the ways of describing each one are so varied that the 'search' function - in the third heavy blue bar, third from the right - doesn't necessarily pick up the words most important to the new poster.

We don't need 50 threads on this stuff.

The sky is NOT falling.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


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Last edited by Librarian; 07-13-2009 at 2:25 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2009, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The sky is NOT falling.
But it never hurts to have a helmet and live in a cave.
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Old 01-29-2009, 2:35 AM
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You know, I wouldn't be surprised to see Obama fight AWB legislation. OK, I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't be floored. The words out of his mouth were "I'm not going to take away folks' guns." I'd imagine he's more cognizant of what he's saying than what his staffers put on his web site. Still, I'd love to corner him and ask him that question:

You've said that you're not going to "take away folks' guns," but whitehouse.gov claims you support banning of the most popular category of target rifle on the market today. So which is it?
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Old 01-29-2009, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Runitai View Post
You've said that you're not going to "take away folks' guns," but whitehouse.gov claims you support banning of the most popular category of target rifle on the market today. So which is it?
Yall know which is it....THE BLACK RIFLE!
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Old 01-29-2009, 5:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runitai View Post
The words out of his mouth were "I'm not going to take away folks' guns."
Since we're quoting the anointed one....

"I believe we need to renew--not roll back--this common sense gun law," Obama said." - In reference to the 1994 AWB.

Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of:
a. handguns?


"While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law."

b. assault weapons?

"Yes."

c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons?

"I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns."

Do you support legislation mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements?

"Yes."

Those are the words of our "savior." Amen.
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Old 01-29-2009, 5:51 AM
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[QUOTE=

Those are the words of our "savior." Amen.[/QUOTE]

Not my savior, thank God.
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2009, 7:50 AM
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+1

Thank you Librarian.
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Old 01-29-2009, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runitai View Post
Still, I'd love to corner him and ask him that question:

You've said that you're not going to "take away folks' guns," but whitehouse.gov claims you support banning of the most popular category of target rifle on the market today. So which is it?
I would imagine the true answer is "both", but he's way too smart to say that. I personally don't think Obama is at all likely to spend his political capital on taking away our guns - he has bigger fish to fry and it would be a huge fight without much upside. He is far too savvy a politician to make a rookie mistake like that. OTOH, he has to do something for the Brady types who think banning guns should be his top priority - those folks are politically important to him also. So the obvious solution is to give lip service to the anti-gun people while somehow never getting around to doing what they want. That's politics for you.
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Old 01-29-2009, 8:49 AM
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Thanks for posting Librarian. The sky might not be falling, yet! But its always good to stay informed of what is going on......Sleath politics are always being used......Time will only tell, and we need to be ready to fight.......
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:50 AM
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In many ways, considering the marxists now in charge of both houses and the Oval office, being a pollyanna is even more pathetic than being a Chicken Little.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:05 AM
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In many ways, considering the marxists now in charge of both houses and the Oval office, being a pollyanna is even more pathetic than being a Chicken Little.
Unfortunately, neither stance will work. Those that say the white house and congress will be too busy dealing with the big issues better keep an eye on what gets tacked onto these outrageous and sweeping money give away's. These rat b*****ds will hide unimaginable bad news in there knowing that it will get by because we "need" this legislation so bad. It won't be the "gun" or "AW" bills that get us, it will be the ones that are to "save" us from financial colapse with the gotcha's attached.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:42 AM
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I'm very disturbed by the 600 page bill that's in the Senate now. 600 pages?!!?!?!? Who knows what's snuck in there. Of course, we should probably have some of our own stuff snuck in there too.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:44 AM
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End of Summer (Both The Fairness Doctrine & New Firearms restrictions WILL BE ON FRONT BURNER !)
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
End of Summer (Both The Fairness Doctrine & New Firearms restrictions WILL BE ON FRONT BURNER !)
You think it'll be that long? I guess Congress will be about done bankrupting our grandchildren about April and will be able to turn its efforts to Other Things.

As I said, it's a really good idea to watch the government web sites for bills as they are introduced. Then, we worry.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 01-29-2009, 12:59 PM
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You think it'll be that long? I guess Congress will be about done bankrupting our grandchildren about April and will be able to turn its efforts to Other Things.
I believe that April is reserved for bankrupting TAX payers. They'll have to wait until May to get the children.
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Old 01-29-2009, 2:46 PM
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Somone said it above, its the additional clauses to Bills which are generally accepted as OK that we need to look out for. Not just in terms of weapons but general USA policy alterations. By the way you note that he said I will nto take your guns away, but he is in favor "of banning assault weapon ammunition" so how good will your rifle be without ammo. I watch the whole political thing very closely
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Old 01-29-2009, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
But it never hurts to have a helmet tinfoil hat and live in a cave.
I fixed it for you.
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Old 01-29-2009, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_freeman View Post
this is great info, thanks for posting. Even though most the legislation cited has been killed, I will continue to call these criminals and let them know I vote and contribute to campaigns.
Until we get some specific targets, this is about all we can do.

Watch the Skies! Or, watch thomas.loc.gov, the Washington Post and the New York Times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_freeman View Post
The sky may not be falling at the moment but I a convinced these marxist do want to drop the ceiling when people aren't paying attention.

attack,attack,attack,attack, run their liberal nonsense so far up their ***** they don't know what hit them.
So far, it looks like the only way to a politician's vote is through his/her campaign funding. It would take something remarkable to affect Feinstein, Boxer or Pelosi in that area.

But they are immune to logic and facts outside that very narrow application, so they are reliable supporters of things that make no sense whatever.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 01-29-2009, 5:04 PM
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Thanks Librarian. Hopefully a mod will sticky.

Nothing wrong with people having anxiety over a possible piece of legislation. Especially one that might be proposed at some unknown time in the future and containing unpredictable restrictions.

We do know that the current makeup of SCOTUS coupled with Heller, and possibly incorporation may have an effect and give the enemy pause.

What we can do is stay vigilant so that when it does come, we're ready to make phone calls, and write letters. Until that time, lets try to keep the speculation to a minimum. Better for us all to not be distracted by a lot of random threads and instead be ready for the one that actually calls us into action.
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Old 01-29-2009, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AngelDecoys View Post
Until that time, lets try to keep the speculation to a minimum. Better for us all to not be distracted by a lot of random threads and instead be ready for the one that actually calls us into action.
Yep, good idea.

The other thing that concerns me is with all the rampant speculation, some people seem to view a new AWB as a foregone conclusion. If the gun-owning population sees it as being inevitable (and many are spending big bucks stocking up on things to make a profit selling "pre-ban" items) they may not be inclined to fight what they view as a losing battle, especially if they can profit from it.
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Old 01-29-2009, 9:28 PM
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Stuck for my old neighbor and fellow gun owners.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 6172crew View Post
Stuck for my old neighbor and fellow gun owners.
Thank you!

Likewise, thank you Librarian for writing this. With this stickied at the top of the page, maybe it will act as a roof for all the chicken littles below .
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:03 AM
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I nominate this as the official image for this thread. Notice the date at the bottom...
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:53 AM
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Still, we do have to remember - there is a certain segment of the population, well-loved by the political class, that cannot imagine anything positive about guns.

They and their political allies certainly will attempt more restrictions, more laws, more publicity campaigns.

It isn't that the sky cannot fall, it's that the four or five things we have seen over and over the last few months are not good evidence that the heavens are crumbling.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 01-30-2009, 7:39 AM
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Thank you Librarian.

I'd like to ask one more thing. Could we please not turn this thread into an Obama bash fest? Can people keep that to a thread that isn't a prominent sticky? (preferably in off-topic) It really undermines our ability to recruit new people to our cause.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:02 PM
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New people who will join our cause But when push comes to shove they will vote in people who are against our cause because our cause is not as important to them as it is to us ...
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:39 PM
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New people who will join our cause But when push comes to shove they will vote in people who are against our cause because our cause is not as important to them as it is to us ...
that is why you convince them that it is important and educate them. they are mere padawan calgunners.
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Old 01-31-2009, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Thank you Librarian.

I'd like to ask one more thing. Could we please not turn this thread into an Obama bash fest? Can people keep that to a thread that isn't a prominent sticky? (preferably in off-topic) It really undermines our ability to recruit new people to our cause.
A politician that deserves bashing will get bashed regardless. These new recruits you mention will just have to be smart enough to figure that out for themselves.
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Old 01-31-2009, 6:24 PM
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that is why you convince them that it is important and educate them. they are mere padawan calgunners.
We can NOT convince them that Choice and Global warning and more GAY rights , and various other sundry Liberal Secular Progressive causes are not as Important as 2A !
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Old 01-31-2009, 6:46 PM
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We can NOT convince them that Choice and Global warning and more GAY rights , and various other sundry Liberal Secular Progressive causes are not as Important as 2A !
Then how about you stop trying to make those issues mutually exclusive .
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Old 01-31-2009, 6:48 PM
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Great thread Librarian! I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:54 PM
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What Librarian and the other pollyannas in this topic massively fail at is that this is NOT last year. The bills might be the same, the same liberal-socialist cretins might be involved like always, but the major difference is that those self-same people are now FULLY IN CHARGE OF OUR GOVERNMENT, and in charge of ALL the branches and committees / offices required to foist passage on the most egregious of PERMANENT bans.

Thus I heap steaming scorn on top of the idea that folks should 'stay calm' and treat this like any other year / glacially-slow-moving NRA-ILA response campaign.
These folks are in power NOW. They've already in demonstrated their willingness to foist their Liberal-Progressive horse**** on every other aspect of govt policy over just their first 11 days. We're in it up to our necks, now, with next to no recourse. And we will not stave off any anti-gun measures by being sanguine or adotping a 'wait and see' attitude.
FFS, they've put an eco-marxist in charge of our Energy, the Chief of the second largest failing school district in charge of the Education Dept, a massive tax cheat in as the Treasury Sect, another tax cheat on the express to be HHS Sect, anti-gun guy as Atty Gen'l, and Obama's own lengthy list of anti-gun statements and bills as the man willing to sign it all.

When the '94 AWB was passed, it was signed and took effect that very same day. THis 111th Congress under Pelosi and Reid, in conjuction with Obama have apready demonstrated the willingness and ability to act this precipitously and have already amply demonstrated their willingness to give full rein to their ideological agenda in other aspects.
As well as the fresh Obama play to lure a Senate RINO to become the replacement Commerce Sec't designate - thus opening the seat for replacement by that state's Democrat Governor, who will surely choose a Democrat replacement - thus destroying any chance of a Republican Senate filibuster of ANY legislation, thus denying the people any chance of getting wind of or opposing any legislation...
Coupled with the proven propensity of Pelosi and Reid to both manipulate voting in both their houses by ilelgally holding votes open overtime while the Democrat Whips strongarm the votes on th floor - AND their prior deliberate violations of parliamentary procedure by foisting voice votes and gaveling closure over strongly voiced objections on the floor...
Coupled with Pelosi's House rules changes which essentially negate any method of amending or adding 'poison pills' to any legislation...
Coupled with the fresh demonstration of their late night / weekend passage of a major 'land reform' bill which sequestered millions of acres for use solely by tree-hugging DINKs for hiking (and nothing else)
Coupled with a wholly complicit Democrat press that won't even report major news to the US populace, much less give an unbiased account of anything...

Sure, sure, everything's FINE, remain calm, go back to sleep. Just pay your trillion-dollar bill for the Stimulus that isn't.
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  #33  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:54 PM
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Rayra,

It takes you 25 lines to say that simply because your party is so incompetent it can't get elected that we're doomed?

I'll remind you that Bush's Solicitor General attempted to torpedo Heller.

You are proving that you can't think for yourself unless the RNC Chair spoon fed you the line.

-Gene
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  #34  
Old 02-01-2009, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayra View Post
What Librarian and the other pollyannas
When I start saying these bills CAN'T pass, you can accurately suggest the 'pollyanna' label.

Until I do that, you're mistaken.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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Old 02-01-2009, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
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I realize these communist criminals that have all the power now could easily pass some nasty gun legislation in the dark of night on a weekend, for a Monday morning surprise. I think the *only* thing stopping them from doing it this weekend is the 2010 election, even then these communist may try anyway. These criminals are superb at building coalitions of power, in other words, masses of duped people. They are already using these hopenityzed groups to put pressure on the repubs to pass the "end of capitalism" package. Name me as you wish, but I know communism and subversion when I see it.
For posters here to NOT vote 2A is sad (End of Summer they will go after Firearms nationally) See CCW accidental Bathroom shootings splashed all over national media over last week alone (TheDrumbeat is growing) and it's not the weak GOP propagating it (It's Dem/Lib media types especially in Ca.)
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2009, 9:55 AM
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Wow, I guess all I can do is shake my head.
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Old 02-01-2009, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nat View Post
Wow, I guess all I can do is shake my head.
All you can do in regards to what? Members who ignore the more educated and involved responses from people who know what they're talking about, and choose to spread FUD? Yeah, nothing can be done there but to shake your head.

If you're referring to shaking your head at the fight to protect the 2nd Amendment, there's lots you can do besides adopting a defeatist, Chicken Little attitude. You can donate your time and/or money to organizations like the NRA and CGF to help fight here in California and nationwide. You can write emails, letters and faxes (for what they're worth), you can phone bank, you can join pro-gun rights organizations. You CAN'T just give up though if you expect us to get anywhere.
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2009, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Rayra,

It takes you 25 lines to say that simply because your party is so incompetent it can't get elected that we're doomed?

I'll remind you that Bush's Solicitor General attempted to torpedo Heller.

You are proving that you can't think for yourself unless the RNC Chair spoon fed you the line.

-Gene
I disagree. About 80% of what he wrote was cold hard fact; about 20% was debatable opinion.

But let's not get too defeatist. Sure, there were many who didn't vote for The Second Amendment (i.e. McCain) in the general election. They viewed other issues as more important. But now that Obama's in, and is addressing those other issues to their (presumable) satisfaction, many Obama voters should be open to pressuring him on 2A, if they are otherwise sympathetic to our cause.

Just because someone voted for Obama doesn't mean we should write them off forever. They can be our allies in fighting the 2A battles to come. And we'll need all of the allies we can get . . .

Last edited by Jim40; 02-01-2009 at 1:46 PM..
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2009, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedEye View Post
All you can do in regards to what? Members who ignore the more educated and involved responses from people who know what they're talking about, and choose to spread FUD? Yeah, nothing can be done there but to shake your head.

If you're referring to shaking your head at the fight to protect the 2nd Amendment, there's lots you can do besides adopting a defeatist, Chicken Little attitude. You can donate your time and/or money to organizations like the NRA and CGF to help fight here in California and nationwide. You can write emails, letters and faxes (for what they're worth), you can phone bank, you can join pro-gun rights organizations. You CAN'T just give up though if you expect us to get anywhere.

I was refering to your first statement.

In regards to your second statement, I am actually pretty optimistic about our 2nd ammendment rights. With potentially great outcomes from Nordyke, different cities giving up gun bans, etc., who wouldn't be cautiously optimistic. Should a bill look like its getting traction, I will make my voice heard. Until then, my friends know me as an outspoken proponent of second ammendment rights.

What I should have said, was being derogatory and painting people with broad brushes (ie liberals are commies, blah, blah) serves only to alienate groups of folks we need on our side...........liberal leaning gun lovers.
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Old 02-01-2009, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim40 View Post
I disagree. About 80% of what he wrote was cold hard fact; about 20% was debatable opinion.
Of 25 lines I found one fact in Rayra's screed. It is:
"When the '94 AWB was passed, it was signed and took effect that very same day."

When they taught me math that added up to 4% facts and 96% opinion.

I hope that others can keep their signal to noise ratio higher.

-Gene
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