Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-27-2009, 4:05 PM
drk421 drk421 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default A good write-up about why gun-control doesn't work

Here:

http://www.2ampd.net/Articles/Boldin...t_Firearms.htm
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-28-2009, 5:31 AM
aileron's Avatar
aileron aileron is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PRK
Posts: 3,249
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drk421 View Post
Quoting for people to read.

Quote:
The Laymanís Guide to Black Market Firearms

By Curt Bolding (c)2000

Curt Bolding is a 16 year police veteran with experience spanning four jurisdictions in Illinois. Still active in his chosen profession, he currently serves as both a street officer and as a Control and Arrest Tactics instructor.

Everybodyís heard the term "black market." Most of us have a pretty good general idea what that means, but many may be unaware of the causes of a black market and the eventual cost of allowing its existence. Especially when it comes to the subject of guns.

Everybody remembers prohibition, although most of us only remember reading about it. What happened there was that the powers that be decided that alcohol was no longer a good thing, so they outlawed it. Problem was, there were too many people who still wanted their booze. This sounds suspiciously like the way America is supposed to work, doesnít it? If the majority of the people want something, itís supposed to be legal, right? Well, not always, as weíll see in a minute.

Now, as you may have noticed from my by-line, Iím a cop. Been one for a long time. As such, I tend to dislike criminals (rather intensely). I mean REAL criminals, not the guy or gal who missed the traffic light. No, Iím talking about the people who are doing things to purposely hurt other people and profit from it. So letís talk about profit for a minute.

Weíre going to talk about guns eventually, too, so bear with me.

Back during prohibition, obviously, there were a lot of people who still wanted alcohol. And there were plenty of other people who were enterprising enough to provide it for them. The way was wide open for the speak-easies andÖ. you guessed it, a black market. Now then: providing alcohol was obviously illegal, which means getting caught and convicted carries penalties, financial for sure and maybe even doing time. So why risk it? Because people want it so bad that theyíre willing to pay more for it than they did when it legal. Also, now that itís illegal, there are fewer places to get it, so the provider has a LOT of customers. So now we also have the fact that thereís a ton of money to be made by our individuals who are both, enterprising enough to pull this off and ingenious enough to operate without being caught very often. This sounds suspiciously like the way the drug trade works, doesnít it? Thatís because this IS the way the drug trade works. The reason that highly organized smuggling operations continue to abound is that there is an unbelievable profit to be made. Otherwise it wouldnít be worth it.

Everybody knows what smuggling is. People bring stuff in somewhere theyíre not supposed to. Kind of like those two beers you had in your pocket or purse last ballgame you went to. But now weíre talking about tons of cocaine, for which the bad guys make ungodly amounts of money with every shipment that gets in. They make so much money that they can afford boats, planes, and every other thing you can conceive to get the stuff into the country, in elaborate ways to avoid detection. There are a series of supervisory levels between the top guys in the cartel and the distributors on the street. Thatís why the lower level guys are the ones who get caught and the top guys almost never are. Thatís why we make a big bust every so often and the papers report itís the biggest single cocaine bust in history or whatever, and a week later the same operation is still functioning, but now they have a different way to bring the stuff in and itís back to square one for the cops and whatís changed? Nothing, thatís what. Six or eight dirtbags get jail time and the top guys are still rich.

Now, finallyÖ.. whatís this got to do with guns?

There are a lot of people right now pushing "common sense gun legislation." The gals behind the Million Mom March, God bless Ďem, have their hearts in the right place but not their heads. Their "solutions" are a waste of time, because they canít work. There are several thousand gun laws in place in this country already, but the problem isnít how many laws there are---itís whether or not theyíre enforced. Every day in this country people commit violent crimes while carrying firearms and theyíre arrested by good cops for it. Itís what happens AFTER that where the problem comes in. Ever heard of plea bargaining? If I charge a guy with five charges, he might plead guilty to ONE of them in order to get the others dropped. Easy conviction, no lengthy and expensive trial, and maybe we get a couple other cases cleared.

Speaking of money, thatís the magic word whenever youíre trying to figure out how the world works (or doesnít work). Look at any given situation that you donít understand, figure out who could conceivably make money off it, and suddenly the light goes on. The drug cartels donít WANT drugs legal. If that happens, all that black market cash goes out of their pockets and into the governmentís, who will now tax and regulate the stuff. Just like they do with booze. Which might also make you wonder if there might not be some politicians getting their pockets lined with cartel money to make sure drugs STAY illegal. Nah. Couldnít happen. This is America.

So, after all that, to the gun issue. Ladies and Gentlemen of America, people are always going to have guns available to them, no matter what. Always. Without fail. If it becomes illegal or too difficult and expensive for a law-abiding citizen to own a firearm because of all the hoops heís got to jump through, guess what heís going to do? Heís going to go down to the corner and talk to Mickey the Mope, who can get him a gun and avoid all that legal red tape. And it may cost Mr. Citizen a few more bucks, but if the legal method is just too much of a pain in the ***, or if he wants it bad enough, thatís the route heís going to take. This is not a hypothetical, or a theory. Itís happening right now. In Illinois, if youíre a convicted felon, youíre not supposed to be able to own a gun. Guess how many of them do. Thatís right. There is already a black market for firearms, and further gun legislation will accomplish nothing but make the criminals richer. It works with exactly the same success that the drug trade has. Incidentally, I hope no one reading this is naÔve enough to think that weíre actually WINNING the "war against drugs."

Yes, every day, firearms are smuggled into this country (and OUT of it, by the way). And the more we try to limit peopleís access to guns or anything else, the more money goes into the pockets of criminals, because they have figured out how to make money off the situation because there are SO many people who want these particular services.

Just how much possibility is there that we can eliminate a black market? Just how much is it worth to the criminals to maintain this situation? Well, Iíll put it in real simple terms. Everybodyís heard the news stories about the problems and gunfights and all that weíve had with the drug dealers. Now just think about THIS for a minute:

These criminals are receiving SO MUCH in return from their illegal activities that they are willing to ENGAGE IN ARMED CONFRONTATIONS WITH TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THEIR ACTIVITIES.

Read that last sentence again. Now ask yourself: how much would it be worth to each one of you to engage in activity that would put you in a situation where youíd be willing to enter a firefight with the police? Itíd have to be a helluva lot.

So hereís the bottom line on what you need to know about the black market. If enough people want an item or a service and are willing to pay for it, other people are going to provide it whether itís legal or not. Drugs, gambling, prostitution, you name it. Those things have been around since before recorded history, by the way, theyíre with us still, and they always will be because there are enough people who want those services that the cash rewards are worth it to the criminals.

Personal and parental responsibility is the only way to reduce firearm-related tragedy. Ladies and Gentlemen of America: Do you love your children? If the firearm issue is an important one to you, then the best thing you can ever do will be to take a gun safety course with your child. When youíre dealing with something like a weapon, your best course is to obtain knowledge and understanding, not trying to make the problem magically go away by passing meaningless laws that arenít prosecuted. Talk to your local Stateís Attorneys and make it clear to them that you want gun-related crime like armed robberies and the like prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Adding more laws that donít work to the already existing thousands that are not enforced is like smoke in the wind. Our children are too precious to waste any more time on "solutions" that donít work.

Disclaimer: The above expressed opinion is solely that of the author, and not any other organization or entity. The author assumes no responsibility for the improper use or misuse of this information, nor for the questionable disappearance of any doughnuts left unattended in the authorís immediate vicinity.
__________________
Look at the tyranny of party -- at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty -- a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes -- and which turns voters into chattles, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction... Mark Twain

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-28-2009, 7:07 AM
rrr70's Avatar
rrr70 rrr70 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Franfricko, PRK
Posts: 1,758
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You can read it to antis every day and twice on Sunday, and it will fall on deaf ears. They are more concerned with protecting criminals from lawful gun owners.
It was said a thousand times that gun control is not about guns, it is about control.
__________________
"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory" Jeff Cooper

كافر
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-28-2009, 8:07 AM
dfletcher's Avatar
dfletcher dfletcher is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 12,611
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

It will fall on deaf ears to the Bradys and Million Mom types - absolutely. But I don't think they are the ones who ultimately decide whether gun control measures pass or fail - it's the politician's perception of where the general public is on gun control plus how strong we are vs the Bradys as a voting block. I think articles like this can by increment persuade the middle of the road types to lean our way or at the very least, not lean with the Bradys.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-28-2009, 8:08 AM
Bad Voodoo's Avatar
Bad Voodoo Bad Voodoo is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrr70 View Post
It was said a thousand times that gun control is not about guns, it is about control.
That should be Calguns' tagline.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-28-2009, 8:52 AM
BTF/PTM BTF/PTM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 612
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Voodoo View Post
That should be Calguns' tagline.
+ 1.832 bazillion. I'd wear a T-shirt with that on it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:12 AM
zatoh's Avatar
zatoh zatoh is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Home of the Fee and the Slave
Posts: 784
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Great article. It would be nice if this article went national/viral. If anybody has any idea making a viral pro 2A article/video that would be great! I think we need another of the Penn and Teller Bullsh*t series but a series of them.

I especially liked the "plea-ing down" explanation and the courts reluctance to convict for the more severe offenses. I guess this also reflects on the general pool of jurors available as well.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-28-2009, 2:11 PM
Bad Voodoo's Avatar
Bad Voodoo Bad Voodoo is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTF/PTM View Post
+ 1.832 bazillion. I'd wear a T-shirt with that on it.
Like this?

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-28-2009, 3:50 PM
Rhys898 Rhys898 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
Posts: 565
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I dont have one but you should probably swap one of the ar's for an ak

Jer
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-28-2009, 3:52 PM
7x57's Avatar
7x57 7x57 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 5,161
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

An AK, or perhaps a bolt or lever action rifle. Or are non-black rifles not so welcome anymore?

And how about a 1911 on one side and a Colt SAA on the other? It would be busy, but you can't have too many guns in the logo for my taste.

7x57
__________________


What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
I know every chance I get I'm going to accuse 7x57 of being a shill for LCAV. Because I can.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-28-2009, 5:20 PM
wildog8812's Avatar
wildog8812 wildog8812 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 166
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I will buy one...hell two so I can wear it twice a much
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-28-2009, 9:20 PM
rrr70's Avatar
rrr70 rrr70 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Franfricko, PRK
Posts: 1,758
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildog8812 View Post
I will buy one...hell two so I can wear it twice a much
Hell yeah!
__________________
"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory" Jeff Cooper

كافر
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:12 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.