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  #1  
Old 01-22-2009, 6:32 PM
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Default My 10 round mag tutorial

Hello, I was looking for a tutorial on how to rivet a USGI magazine into a California legal 10/20 or 10/30 mag and could
not find to many, so i decided to just do it, and make my own tutorial. So hopefully this will be
helpful to others looking to do the same. Enjoy!


On a second note, I cannot guarantee this will work with all magazines or followers, so please measure everything before trying
this to ensure it will work with your hardware and fit into your lower reciver.

On a third note, I am NOT an expert on law and legislature, and i am writing this tutorial for
INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY!!! Some say that this method of making legal 10 round mags is not permanent enough to stand up to
gun laws in certain states. I cannot and will not be held responsible for misuse of this information or the techniques used in
modifying these magazines. Please research your local laws and decide if this method will conform to your local states laws before
modifying your magazines. Again, i will not be held responsible for the misuse of this information, and it is just that.


FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY!!


With that said, lets get started!



First, here are all the tools i used to modify these magazines, from left to right


Standard rivet's (I used the 1/4")
Pointed awl
Drinking straw
Pen/Sharpie
Handheld rivet gun
Ball peen hammer

You may use whatever you have on hand.









1. Open your box of 20/30 round magazine rebuild kits.
(I would like to hope you ordered your mags in REBUILD KIT form..)







2. Insert the follower into your magazine body. Be sure to hold it into place with your finger so it stays in place while
you insert rounds into your magazine.







3. Carefully insert 10 rounds of .223 ammunition into the magazine (Dummy rounds would be preferred for safety but i did not have
any to use for this tutorial.) Be careful not to let the follower turn sideways, use pressure from your finger inserted into
the magazine. Once full, give it a rap on your hand to insure all the rounds are seated properly while holding pressure on the
follower. [/size=2]
[IMG]http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u261/bobbyblank/Mag%20tutorial/3.jpg





4. Insert a device to be used for measuring the distance from the edge of the follower to the bottom of the magazine. I used
a drinking straw for this since the marks can be easily removed if you fuged up marking it. be sure to keep pressure on the
follower the whole time to ensure the mark is correct.






5. Transfer the mark you made onto the magazine body.







6. Remove all the rounds and the follower so you can safely drill into the magazine.

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Old 01-22-2009, 6:33 PM
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7. I chose to wrap the magazine in a dish towel and insert into a bench vise to ease in the drilling process. You can skip this
step if you don't have access to one.







8. Then use an awl and ball peen hammer to divot the magazine so your drill bit does not walk around when you start your hole.
(you can see some of the finish was chipped of in the process, these magazines were teflon coated. Not a big deal, the
rivet will cover this.)






9. Carefully drill your hole into the magazine. You may wish to have someone spray the bit with WD40 if its dull to ease
drilling, but it is not needed.







10. Nice clean hole!







11. Now insert the follower and spring back into the magazine, you will need these installed, because once the rivets are in
place, you will not be able to insert them.






12. Do not yet install the floorplate. Having the floorplate installed while the mag installed is illegal and should
not be done since you will have a high cap magazine on your hands. You should press the spring and mag on your
work bench while you do the next step. This picture illustrates what the floorplate looks like after you complete installation of the rivet. You should not install the floorplate while the magazine capacity is not restricted to 10 rounds or less.


Last edited by leelaw; 01-22-2009 at 7:35 PM..
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2009, 6:34 PM
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13. Insert a 1/4" rivet into the hole in the magazine and install with your rivet gun.







14. Magazine with rivet installed.






15. Reinsert 10 rounds into the magazine. Take another round and try to insert into the magazine to verify it will now only
accept 10 rounds. As you can see, i could not insert the 11th round. If it does, your markings were off, or your rivet folded
up in the wrong way. You can drill out the rivet and install another, this may resolve the problem. If not, you may need to
install another rivet into the other side of the mag to assist in keeping the follower in place. I installed two rivets anyway
just to make sure that if one ever decided to fail, the other will still hold back the follower.








17. And here are my 10/20 mags. To finish off the magazines, you can color the rivets with a black sharpie. I did not do this
since i did not have any around. It looks much nicer when they are colored black to match.












Well there you have it, hopefully this may help out others trying to make there own 10/20, 10/30 legal magazines. Thanks for
reading!
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2009, 6:39 PM
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Great tutorial, but you really should go the extra step and perm. affix the baseplate too.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2009, 6:44 PM
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pretty cool, i might just use one of my rebuild kits for this. cheaper than buying a 10\30 mag.
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2009, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Great tutorial, but you really should go the extra step and perm. affix the baseplate too.
Epoxy over the rivet is acceptable, as well.

I do agree he needs that "extra" step, though, as a precaution of permanence.

Otherwise an excellent tutorial. That's just how I've been doing mine, so I have nothing better to add.

I bought my rivet gun + rivets on eBay for $5, including shipping.
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Last edited by aplinker; 01-22-2009 at 6:57 PM..
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2009, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Epoxy over the rivet is acceptable, as well.

I do agree he needs that "extra" step, though, as a precaution of permanence.

Otherwise an excellent tutorial. That's just how I've been doing mine, so I have nothing better to add.

I bought my rivet gun + rivets on eBay for $5, including shipping.

Thats a great deal on a rivet gun w/rivets. Mine is an oldy i picked up from harbor freight. Same price, but i had to pick it up lol. I will probably tack weld the floorplate when i get a chance. Just want to make sure the rivets hold for a while first. That way if they dont, i can redo.
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:05 PM
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I would suggest that you red Loctite in the rivet and then cover it with a blob of JB Weld. You can paint it black when it dries. Also apply JB Weld to the floor plate and permanently attach it.
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Last edited by EBR Works; 01-22-2009 at 7:09 PM..
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
I would suggest that you red Loctite in the rivet

Red loctite would not do anything to the rivet since it has no threads. It might keep it from spinning, but most likey would do nothing. Its more for keeping bolts tight, not really a glue or adhesive. JB would be a good alternative to welding the floorplate, but i have a welder, so that would be cleaner i think.
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:17 PM
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The fact that you can easily drill out the rivet and restore the mag to full capacity is a problem. You even state this in your assembly instructions. This has been discussed here repeatedly.

A better (safer) solution would be to cut plastic or wood dowel to restrict follower travel past 10 rounds and insert it into the bottom of the mag with lots of epoxy and then epoxy on the floorplate.
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Last edited by EBR Works; 01-22-2009 at 10:37 PM..
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2009, 7:20 PM
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I would also use something more substantial than a drinking straw... something more like a section from a thick plastic coat hanger.
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:26 PM
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Very nice tutorial
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
The fact that you can easily drill out the rivet and restore the mag to full capacity is a problem. This has been discussed here repeatedly.

A better (safer) solution would be to cut plastic or wood dowel to restrict follower travel past 10 rounds and insert it into the bottom of the mag with lots of epoxy and then epoxy on the floorplate.

You are correct, This is just how I went about doing it. Again, as i stated, Im not suggesting anyone does it this way. Im just provding some information incase anyone wants to. People will do it whatever way they choose, its not for me to decide. there are MANY things that could be done to make this safer/legal/cooler/whatever. No matter what you do to a mag to get it to 10 round cap, it can ALWASE be reversed. In one form or another, its just how much effort is put into reversing it. I dont care if anyone does it this way, just provideing a little read for anyone who might want to.

Bobby
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:30 PM
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I was told that you should leave a small amount of extra space so that the stack of rounds can compress down a little as the bolt head comes across to strip out the first round. Certanly not enough to squeeze in an 11th round, but just enough so that you can push down the stack a minute amount. I don't know if this is an accurate statement, more anecdotal but sounds feasible since a "tight" first round may bind.
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:35 PM
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you can see in the pics on step 15 that there is about a 1/16" to an 1/8" of play after the 10th round. But yes, it is tight. I wanted it that way to make sure there was no 11
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:36 PM
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Relevant discussion here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=magazine

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=magazine
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:37 PM
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Guys, there's no reason to weld or fix the floorplate.

If the body is permanently modified by adding a rivet and covering it with epoxy, that is considered permanent by DOJ. There is court testimony on this.

Fixing the floorplate precludes replacing the spring, which is BAD.
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:41 PM
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This may be the mod for my USGI Aluminium Nam era mag for the Retro build !
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Old 01-22-2009, 7:58 PM
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Great stuff Bobby. Thanks.

I'm just at the point where I need to to start loading up on mags and this helps alot. Now just need to find a bunch of them.
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Old 01-22-2009, 8:07 PM
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As i said in my OP, not looking for a legal if/and/but's, if you dont like it, dont build it. If you think you can in improve it, feel free to do so. Just trying to be helpful .
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Old 01-22-2009, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
If the body is permanently modified by adding a rivet and covering it with epoxy, that is considered permanent by DOJ.
This is how i understand the law as well. Its good enough for MY standards. But i have no issue welding the plate. Would just make me feel better in the long run, despite the inablity to replace the spring later. Im in no hurry to do it though . one of these days... Plus a few tacks by my mig welder would be easy to remove with a dremel in about 2 minutes..

Last edited by bobbyblank; 01-22-2009 at 8:23 PM..
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:30 PM
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Thanks for the post. I was considering the same approach. From my reading of the regs I am comfortable with the permanence, but when you look at my legal background that is not really a safe bet when you consider I am in sales, not law.

Can anyone shed some light on the need to epoxy or weld the floorplates when one can buy commercially sold 10/20's with nothing more than a pair of punches on the magazine sides (nontechnical term, metal is cut and pushed inwards)to keep the follower from accepting more than 10 rounds)?

I have tried to search but it always runs in the same circle of misinformation.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:44 PM
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Excellent tutorial. Mods. should consider making this a sticky.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:28 AM
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Great tutorial. Looks like I'll be picking up a rivet gun and following your instructions. Thanks for the work.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:50 AM
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I vote to make this a sticky... we have the Pmags as a sticky.. why not this one?
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:51 AM
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Nice tutorial - thanks for posting! ...and I see that you too, enjoy a glass of wine while working on your EBR stuff - cheers!

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Old 01-23-2009, 10:52 AM
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Great tutorial!

For those who like the rivet idea but would like some additional permanence, you can always pick up a couple of extra followers (I recommend Magpul) and epoxy/pin on a limiter like this one (my thanks to aloharoller for coming up with the idea):


This is a very cheap mod and once the limiter length is identified you can create a bunch of these quickly.

Once the modified follower is installed in the mag and a rivet placed, I don't see how anyone can argue that the mag has not been permanently modified.

Not only would tools be required to remove the rivet, one of the magazine parts must also be replaced to restore the mag to a 20 rounder. Using both limiting methods also creates some insurance against that 11th round somehow being forced into the mag if an inspection ever occurred.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:52 AM
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I've done this to all my mags well the 10/30 ones anyways.. I even used the same rivet gun and everything haha. TO me the rivet is permanent enough. Even if i could remove the baseplate, what good would it do? the rivet is still in its place. The only way to make it illegal would be to use a drill and drill it out. I believe using the rivets are a lot better then the mags with the "stamped tab" on the side. On one of my "tabbed" mags I was able to fit a 11th round in, I ended up putting a rivet into it instead.
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Old 01-23-2009, 1:45 PM
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Stuck the thread as per popular demand.

Turby
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Old 01-23-2009, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djleisure View Post
Nice tutorial - thanks for posting! ...and I see that you too, enjoy a glass of wine while working on your EBR stuff - cheers!



Haha, i figured someone would notice. Most of my postings involve the all american beer somewhere in background lol, i just happend to be running low . Had to make due with the tools at hand... Its a 2005 cabernet sauvignon by coastal estates, $6.99 for anyone intrested . My favorite..
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Old 01-23-2009, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
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Stuck the thread as per popular demand.

Turby
Thank you for the sticky! Hope some people find this helpful. Maybe some others will post some info on the legality of useing rivets with epoxy. I know its around somewhere.
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Old 01-23-2009, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Stuck the thread as per popular demand.

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Old 01-23-2009, 7:00 PM
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Nice post! I did my AK mags by taking brake line and bending it with a tubing bender to follow the contour of curved mags. I then brazed the tubing to the underside of the follower, loaded 10 rounds to the mag and cut off the extra tubing sticking out from the mag body. It is true that you need some extra space for the rounds to be able to be stripped off by the bolt. I did my pretty tight. I could load 10 rounds but the bolt would get stuck on the first round. So I need to shorten the tubing a little.I will do my AR mags the same but i need to get the stainless steel followers.



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Old 01-23-2009, 7:01 PM
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Old 01-25-2009, 4:13 PM
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Great post.

I actually used this method recently also, and I feel the rivet method is safe for me. If the rivet breaks I'd dissasemble immediately and I won't be using that magazine until it's fixed. You're also permanently modifying the magazine body by drilling into it.

I did USGI 10/30's and used a 1/8" rivet. After I sealed around the rivet with a small amount of metal patch filler. I also wrapped the mags in newspaper leaving the rivet exposed and sprayed with a couple coats of grey primer. Not sure if that adds another level of permanence but it looks very nice. Color matches the mag exactly.

Tested the 3 I made Friday at the range and they all functioned flawless. Definitely saves you money doing it this way as opposed to buying them for $25-$30 bucks!



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Last edited by 1BigPea; 01-26-2009 at 7:28 AM.. Reason: added photos
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Old 01-25-2009, 6:26 PM
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Good thread i am actually doing the same thing to all my 30 round rebuild kits i have 30 more to do later this week ;/
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Old 01-28-2009, 4:10 PM
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Quick question: why epoxy the rivet or the floorplate?

It seems to me that pop rivets are pretty permanent.

Yes I am too lazy to search but I don't think I would get good hits searching for magazine rivet epoxy.
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Old 01-28-2009, 4:33 PM
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A pop rivet by itself is NOT permanent. You can easily remove it in 30 seconds. Cover the rivet with JB Weld or equivalent for a safer solution.
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Old 01-28-2009, 4:50 PM
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Is there a legal requirement?

With the right tools I can remove a just about anything.

If I could remove a rivet with my fingers in 30 seconds I might feel differently about it.
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  #40  
Old 01-28-2009, 5:10 PM
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EBR Works EBR Works is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
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You have to do whatever you feel comfortable with. This is a gray area where more permanent is better from a legal perspective. Do you want to be a test case?
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Check out our e-commerce site here:

www.ebrworks.com

Now serving you from Prescott, AZ

Last edited by EBR Works; 01-28-2009 at 5:35 PM..
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