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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-18-2009, 7:33 PM
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Default I hate AR charging handles.

There should be more side charging AR uppers. I love my Daewoo because it has one. Once you get rid of the charging handle, you can get rid of the forward assist and brass deflector. I guess I can't leave stuff alone.

What do you guys think?



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Old 01-18-2009, 7:36 PM
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Side chargers are nice, but charging handles and forward assit have thier place.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacktail 8541 View Post
Side chargers are nice, but charging handles and forward assit have thier place.
Why?
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:39 PM
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You have obviously have never been in a situation that needed a forward assit.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:40 PM
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I agree with you but I would only want a side-charging plain upper with the gas operating system removed to make it completely manual operating.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frigginchi View Post
There should be more side charging AR uppers. I love my Daewoo because it has one. Once you get rid of the charging handle, you can get rid of the forward assist and brass deflector. I guess I can't leave stuff alone.

What do you guys think?
I think I love my AR just the way it is, I just don't see the problem with the design.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacktail 8541 View Post
You have obviously have never been in a situation that needed a forward assit.
+1

Imagine being in combat with only a single round in your mag and there is only one enemy left as well and hes returning fire. In this situation a push on the forward assist will secure proper feeding and reduce the chance of a misfire, which will save your life.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:48 PM
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You can do that with the cocking handle on a side charger. The cocking handle is bolted to the bolt.

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+1

Imagine being in combat with only a single round in your mag and there is only one enemy left as well and hes returning fire. In this situation a push on the forward assist will secure proper feeding and reduce the chance of a misfire, which will save your life.
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Old 01-18-2009, 7:51 PM
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maybe, it the cocker was not on the ejection side. I like my FA where it is.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2009, 7:54 PM
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There was an article posted on the NM forums about AR15 modifications written by a gunsmith specializing in High Power competition ARs. I'm trying to dig it up, but he had some good info against using side charging handles on the AR BCG.

I do recommend that if you do use a modified BCG to use a side bolt handle (people with AR spaceguns for High Power match rifle category have done this), use red loctite to make sure the bolt handle does not come loose. You do not want that thing coming off during firing, especially at the speeds the BCG moves at.
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2009, 7:59 PM
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the charging handle seems fragile i like the idea of nonreciprotation but would like it to be like the ar-10 b but without that sharp bit that comes out the back

haven't needed to use a foward assist
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Old 01-18-2009, 8:00 PM
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Id rather have the rear CH than one mounted on the right side.At least I can reach it with my non-firing hand easily
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2009, 8:02 PM
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I'm a lefty
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Old 01-18-2009, 8:10 PM
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I could see a good need for the side charging handle when you have a full size optic on like in the OP. It seems rather awkward to pull the handle. Maybe it's the 10/22 user in me that would probably prefer an AR with a side charging handle anyway..it is more comfortable and probably combat friendly to not unsholder the rifle to cycle the bolt.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2009, 9:08 PM
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IMHO, you only need a side charging handle if you have a match rifle w/ no need for a FA. There are also a few competition stocks that have cheek welds so high that the regular charging handle has no room. WOA makes one. If I was to make a Highpower AR I would have a side charging one with that stock.
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2009, 9:20 PM
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Being another lefty, the lack of a case deflector would be an annoyance, and the sight of that bolt handle reciprocating in front of my face would be a matter of concern... but that's me. Go for it!
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2009, 9:30 PM
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Its a freakin battle rifle!!!
EVERYTHING about it was designed/developed for that purpose.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2009, 9:37 PM
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I've never had a problem with the standard rear charging handle on any of my AR15s or M16s.

With a side charging handle, you'd be unable to close the ejection port cover.

2 sayings come to mind whenever I see someone suggest something like this...

If it ain't broke...

and

Keep It Simple, Stupid
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2009, 9:45 PM
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Not having a brass deflector is not a big deal. And a reciprocating cocking handle is no big deal either, every AK has one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
I've never had a problem with the standard rear charging handle on any of my AR15s or M16s.

With a side charging handle, you'd be unable to close the ejection port cover.

2 sayings come to mind whenever I see someone suggest something like this...

If it ain't broke...
you can always make things better

and

Keep It Simple, Stupid
removing parts is as simple as you can get
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Old 01-18-2009, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frigginchi View Post
Not having a brass deflector is not a big deal.
Trust us, it's a big deal for us lefties.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:02 PM
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I'm a lefty also the brass smacks the charging handle on its way out negating the need for a brass deflector

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Trust us, it's a big deal for us lefties.
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2009, 12:07 AM
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I hate reciprocal charging handles.
I wish I could have a non-reciprocal charging handle on my AK or Garand.
With the AR, you can put yourself up against a barricade or shoot through a window/door and not worry about how you rest the rifle.
With an AK/Garand, that handle bumps into stuff and causes problems.
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2009, 10:24 AM
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IMHO:

For repeater AR rifles, the CH is a good thing. You just need to load (charge) once then empty the mag.

For side-charging AR rifles, it's only good for single shot or manual operation. Most of the current side-charging modification methods are just about to open a slot on receiver then attach a handle on the bolt carrier. If you shoot S/A, you will see the side-charging handle fly backward and forward on each shot. Usually such handles are pretty large in size. A flying large handle is not a pleasant thing to see during shooting.

Well, it's just my opinion. More opinions are welcome.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:38 AM
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If it was a charging handle similiar to the FAL or the HK's, it wouldn't be bad. Where the side CH is a separate component from the bolt carrier and remains stationary after use. Either way it would require significant re-engineering of the AR bolt carrier and reciever...oh wait, that's what they did with the Daewoo!

Like everything else issued by the military, the AR10/AR15/M16 family went through several incarnations before any rifles came into it's final form. Some of the early prototypes had charging handles on top,. inside the carry handle. Some had the forward assist incorporated into the charging handle.

In the end, the whole objective was to keep the external moving parts to a minimum.
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:05 AM
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Howabout those ASA and Ameetec side charging uppers. Its non-reciprocating correct? I just wish it had a FA

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Add...rs-t39229.html
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:38 PM
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Doesn't someone make uppers with the retro top charging hook in the carry handle? If memory serves, it was non-reciprocating. I think that looks really cool; I was thinking about doing a build that way, but I couldn't find the manufacturer.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2009, 12:51 PM
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Default Exactly...well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
I've never had a problem with the standard rear charging handle on any of my AR15s or M16s.

With a side charging handle, you'd be unable to close the ejection port cover.

2 sayings come to mind whenever I see someone suggest something like this...

If it ain't broke...

and

Keep It Simple, Stupid
++1...Well said.

the EPC or DUST cover, mosts certainly has it's purpose...an austere environment and the need for the EPC and FA are things Range Shooters may not get.

If we have to explain, they just won't understand.
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Old 01-19-2009, 1:12 PM
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Top mounted charger works for righties and lefties.
Add a Badger extension to it will make it a one handed affair when charging the weapon.
This system saves time.
Charge it once and you are good to go until the ammo gives out.
Good argument against the forward assist. If your gun fails to feed and you keep using the assist you are in a world of hurt in a SHTF situation.
Bolt handle would be nice right there.
Case deflector is also to accommodate lefties and prevent them from getting brass in the Mk 1 eyeball.
The beauty of the AR platform is that it can be all things to everybody depending on your personal configuration and caliber.
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Old 01-19-2009, 1:24 PM
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Better?
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Old 01-19-2009, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpach View Post
Howabout those ASA and Ameetec side charging uppers. Its non-reciprocating correct?
While it's non-reciprocating, if you don't lock it forward before releasing the bolt, you will get one of these...

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Old 01-19-2009, 6:43 PM
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Default good point

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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Good argument against the forward assist. If your gun fails to feed and you keep using the assist you are in a world of hurt in a SHTF situation.
Been there and the true fct is the AR-15, M-16 and M-4 configurations are battle weapons...I have been there in the SHTF situation to which you refer and I had poblems none.

but you do make an excellent point below....

Quote:
The beauty of the AR platform is that it can be all things to everybody depending on your personal configuration and caliber.
We agree....everyone as a preference and goo reason for diggin their own style...me I am good with good old MILSPEC...but I am brainwashed.
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Old 01-19-2009, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
While it's non-reciprocating, if you don't lock it forward before releasing the bolt, you will get one of these...

I figured out the fix for that issue.

I just modify the bolt catch button by removing the top edge so when you activate the button your tumb is not in the say since the modified button sits below the charging handle now and there enough gap to that your thumb will not get pinched between the two.
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Old 01-19-2009, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpach View Post
Howabout those ASA and Ameetec side charging uppers. Its non-reciprocating correct? I just wish it had a FA

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Add...rs-t39229.html
With the Side Charger, you don't really need the FA anymore, since you are altering the operation of the AR bolt where it operates much like the FAL does.
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Old 01-19-2009, 7:52 PM
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So why is it that the catch for the charging handle is on the left side? It doesn't seem convenient to have to cross over but there's gotta be a logical reason for it. Me, personally, I'm wondering if there's a way to make a conversion that would move the lever to the right side.

Having said that, I've never been in combat and could easily be missing the point.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addax View Post
With the Side Charger, you don't really need the FA anymore, since you are altering the operation of the AR bolt where it operates much like the FAL does.
You still need the forward assist because that side charger does not allow you to push the carrier forward like a reciprocating charging handle does.
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Old 01-20-2009, 1:14 PM
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Default non shooting hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjerr View Post
So why is it that the catch for the charging handle is on the left side? It doesn't seem convenient to have to cross over but there's gotta be a logical reason for it. Me, personally, I'm wondering if there's a way to make a conversion that would move the lever to the right side.

Having said that, I've never been in combat and could easily be missing the point.
The M-16 Series , incl AR, and M4 are all set up (originally) for Right handed battle-shooters. The bolt catch release and the charging handle release are all set for operation with the 'non-shooting' hand.

The only operation of the weapon that is set up for the strong hand is the selector lever, which is activiated with the shooting hand on the pistol grip and the magazine release and FA.

A magazine change is done when there is no opportunity to shoot so this is ok AND the fwd assist is used in that same time frame.

Immediate or Remedial action for a double feed or poor chambering problem is all done with either hands or both.
SPORTFIRE or SPORTS

S-slap the magazine
P-pull the charging handle
O-observe for an ejecting round or misfeed
R-release the charging handle (seating the bolt)
T-tao the FA
FIRE or SHOOT...attempt and repeat if necessary.

I hope that makes sense....
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Old 01-20-2009, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You still need the forward assist because that side charger does not allow you to push the carrier forward like a reciprocating charging handle does.

Even though the ASA side charging upper does not have a reciprocating bolt, the bcg is notched so that the charging handle never sits behind the bolt, it will always sit forward of the bolt.

In most cases, if the bolt gets stuck, all you need to do is grab the side charging handle and pull the bolt back.
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Old 01-20-2009, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addax View Post
Even though the ASA side charging upper does not have a reciprocating bolt, the bcg is notched so that the charging handle never sits behind the bolt, it will always sit forward of the bolt.

In most cases, if the bolt gets stuck, all you need to do is grab the side charging handle and pull the bolt back.
That does not give you a way to close the carrier when it's just 1/4" front being all the way closed.
That would require ejecting the current round and stripping a new round from the magazine.
There is no ability to "chamber check" with that receiver.
You still need forward assist.
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  #39  
Old 01-20-2009, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
That does not give you a way to close the carrier when it's just 1/4" front being all the way closed.
That would require ejecting the current round and stripping a new round from the magazine.
There is no ability to "chamber check" with that receiver.
You still need forward assist.
I did say in most cases, so there are going to be some situations like you just mentioned.
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  #40  
Old 01-20-2009, 8:23 PM
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I prefer to have the charging handle. It is not hard at all to use
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Or your ammo stash has replaced your wifes parking spot in the garage.
When my neighbor asked what all those crates were, I told him if he sees smoke coming from my garage, and me running down the street......he better catch up!
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Just go to safeway to shop for food. The young good looking couple buying healthy food...they're a new couple. The fat ones wearing ****ty clothes not caring about how they look, getting frozen food...they're married!

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