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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2009, 8:22 AM
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Default Kel Tec Sub 2000

Does anyone know if the Kel Tec Sub 2000 is California legal? Does anyone on this forum own one/shot one? I just think it would be so cool to own a rifle that would accept my Glock magazines in case of SHTF. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2009, 2:43 PM
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Would require some sort of bullet button style device. Detachable mag/pistol grip = evil.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2009, 3:04 PM
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yeah that's a tough one since it doesn't come with any magazines...it uses the same mags as a glock.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2009, 10:02 PM
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They are on the proposed ban list. A bullet button is easy to make. Checkout this Keltec forum:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
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Old 01-11-2009, 2:26 AM
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does that mean I can have it shipped to my FFL and have them install the bullet button? I don't think they can accept a rifle not compliant for cali...thanks though great link!
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2009, 10:55 AM
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Folks, I just got off the phone with Cold War Shooters, asking them about this. They said they are able to make a bullet button/tool, and are willing to take orders.

Cheers,
R
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpsb1 View Post
Folks, I just got off the phone with Cold War Shooters, asking them about this. They said they are able to make a bullet button/tool, and are willing to take orders.

Cheers,
R
I'd love to hear more about this. Did they quote you a price?
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:51 AM
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They quoted me $65.00 for the mod; the FFL/shipping charges depend on whether your dealer is willing to ship to their CA or TX location. Actually I don't know if shipping to the CA office is even an option in terms of legality.

Anyway, they were very friendly and open, a pleasure to talk to.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2009, 12:10 PM
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Not to get off topic but I wonder what kind of BB Cold War is making. I make one for the SU-16 and I'd like to see what they come up with.

Is the Sub 2000 considered a pistol, carbine, or centerfire rifle in this state?
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2009, 12:12 PM
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By the way, is anyone certain of the legality here? What about the SUB-2000's presence on the proposed ban list?
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2009, 1:29 PM
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Ban list? Whatever you have heard about a ban list is nonsense right now.
First, welcome to calguns!
Ok, you bumped multiple threads about the sub2000, and you called coldwar shooters to find that they make a BB for it. Do you know what else to look for to see if a gun is legal? There are great resources for this info at the top of every page.

Last edited by bigcalidave; 12-28-2009 at 1:32 PM..
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2009, 8:08 PM
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Default Kel Tec SUB-2000 cont'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
Ban list? Whatever you have heard about a ban list is nonsense right now.
First, welcome to calguns!
Ok, you bumped multiple threads about the sub2000, and you called coldwar shooters to find that they make a BB for it. Do you know what else to look for to see if a gun is legal? There are great resources for this info at the top of every page.
Thanks bigcalidave!

Regarding multiple threads - I was so happy about how friendly Cold War Shooters were, I guess I got a little giddy. I really expected the cold shoulder from them. Sorry to break board protocol (if I did). I wanted people to see that this was a possibility, perhaps for other rifles as well. About CWS, they told me today that they don't make a BB for the SUB-2000 currently but they're confident enough about it to quote me a price.

Resources... I've studied at the flowchart, read the current and expired federal and state regulations backwards and forwards until I'm blue in the face, and read posts/threads here, on ktog.org, perfectunion.com, calgunlaws.com, wikipedia, and a few others. I called some local gun shops (where I really did get the cold shoulder, but I get the feeling the dealers are REALLY careful so I don't blame them) as well.

So... I'm very interested in your statement about the ban list; what I'm referring to is HR 1022 - the last action with the bill was pushing it into some subcommittee back in March.

Thanks again, and cheers!

- Robert
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2009, 10:29 PM
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I would love to purchase a sub-2000 and have also wondered what it would take to make it CA legal. I appreciate your efforts to find out about the BB, now who can we turn to to sell them?

-B
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
I would love to purchase a sub-2000 and have also wondered what it would take to make it CA legal. I appreciate your efforts to find out about the BB, now who can we turn to to sell them?

-B
Thanks Octane. I talked to CWS again today, and they said they have had a few calls about these in the last couple days and they're trying to order a batch of them. If I can I'll order directly from them.

Cheers,
R
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2010, 5:29 PM
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I'm interested too, but I think there's one more problem: overall length is 29.5 inches, which makes it illegal. Can CWS or someone else put on a longer barrel or some kind of permanent extension? I can't tell if the stock collapses. If so, the flowchart says this would make the problem even worse.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2010, 5:51 PM
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Kel-tec has a stock extension.
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchy View Post
Kel-tec has a stock extension.
So if they do (presumably for us CA folks), do they do a bullet button? Links please?
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2010, 5:00 PM
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http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/cart2/pro...roducts_id=167
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2010, 5:59 PM
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I'm not really sure that qualifies. Looks like a "snap-on" type thing -- i.e., you could become a felon if you drop it and the thing falls off.

Just sayin' . . . .
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2010, 9:29 PM
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It appears to attach with a screw of some sort. A little adhesive could make it more permanent. A mag locking device is the big issue.
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:06 AM
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Agreed. Traded emails with PRK Arms. They don't do it . . .
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2010, 8:58 AM
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New Featureless grip wrap. For me I want to use my preban glock mags. With the stock extension in place its 30.5 inches.
http://www.solartactical.com/product...&categoryId=19
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2010, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
Not to get off topic but I wonder what kind of BB Cold War is making. I make one for the SU-16 and I'd like to see what they come up with.

Is the Sub 2000 considered a pistol, carbine, or centerfire rifle in this state?
It would be considered a rifle. 16" minimum barrel length and 30" overall length required, in addition to the BB. AFAIK, the law makes no distinction between carbines and rifles. Caliber is irrelevant to the rifle/pistol distinction.
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Last edited by reidnez; 01-14-2010 at 9:38 AM..
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2010, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpsb1 View Post

So... I'm very interested in your statement about the ban list; what I'm referring to is HR 1022 - the last action with the bill was pushing it into some subcommittee back in March.

Thanks again, and cheers!

- Robert
HR1022 is dead http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022. There are no state bans on the horizon either.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:51 AM
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29.5" is SO close to the required length you could easily permanently attach a buttpad to it that was .5" or longer.

I didn't realize these were so inexpensive, I might look into getting one in 9mm...

Anyone know what Glock mags it takes? Earlier in the thread someone mentioned it takes Glock mags but Kel-Tec's website doesn't say that... Could be fun in 9mm if it'd take my g19 mags...
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:05 AM
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I believe it takes G17 mags, of which I have lots of pre-bans in the back of the safe...

I could have one sent to my brother who lives in a free state, have him modify it with the grip from Solar Tactical (big thank you to Solar Tactical for supporting this and making it happen), have it transferred to me and then be fat, dumb, and happy.
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Old 01-14-2010, 4:03 PM
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17 mags is what it takes.very nice combo
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2010, 4:45 PM
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Anyone found a FFL willing to have one of these shipped to them?
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2010, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
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Anyone found a FFL willing to have one of these shipped to them?
What area are you in?
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  #30  
Old 02-12-2010, 10:26 PM
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Sacramento Area, but willing to travel a little for something like this
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  #31  
Old 02-13-2010, 8:03 AM
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I know an FFL in West Sac who would likely accept one that has already been correctly modified (He received an OLL and a Draco pistol for me from Henderson Defense).
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Old 02-13-2010, 2:19 PM
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See and that's the problem. Most places don't have them modified yet. TDS in Loomis said they would but it would have to be premodified with either a BB/stock extension or the MMG/Stock extension. Grrr.
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2010, 7:05 PM
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Default Kel Tec SUB-2000, finally

After a long wait including having to do another DROS because the first one I did ran out, I picked up my SUB2K today and took it to the range.

The bullet button that Cold War Shooters did is nice work. Hats off to their gun smith. A small hex wrench or punch works just fine (I kind of wish a tool had been included, but I have a small hex wrench that's perfect). Pictures below (yep, crappy camera phone).

The first is the closed case (fuzzy, sorry):

The bag is a SAT-COM Bag from County Comm.

The next is in the case, open:


Next is with the bullet button on the gun:


And finally, with the bullet button off, adjacent to where it is mounted on the gun:


As a right hander I have no issue with the button, but a lefty might have problems.

No problem with firing a bit less than 100 rounds. No FTE/FTF.

I'd recommend Cold War Shooters for others that would like a bullet button for this gun. But, I would suggest that you get them to commit to frequent communication/updates. It took a few weeks longer than I'd hoped for, and there were a couple of misunderstandings (more like not getting a call back than misunderstandings really).

That said, the folks I talked to in the Texas office were AWESOME. Thanks CWS.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2010, 7:19 PM
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Could you detail your costs please?
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Old 03-31-2010, 7:30 PM
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^YES^............please do detail your costs so we know exactly what it cost to get one here.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2010, 7:33 PM
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Sure. I bought it from Clint at http://gunforall.com/ - he was the only one that could scrounge one up for me going the online route. He was really cool about getting it shipped/etc. It was $399 which is higher than what I see mostly for the street price, but I was happy just to find one.

It was $75 for CWS to receive it and prep for shipping to CA, then $15 to ship. It was $65 for the bullet button work (I think it's a great deal), then another $15 for shipping to my FFL. Then of course the FFL's charges for transfer.
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Old 03-31-2010, 8:12 PM
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Dang, we're almost into AR territory at that point ... certainly into Mini-14 / SU-16CA territory.
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  #38  
Old 04-01-2010, 12:52 AM
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Nice job!!! Very cool gun.

I've been planning on doing this for a while. As I've priced it with a seller and an FFL I've contacted:

350 Rifle
35 shipping
25 for dealing with CA(ship gun inoperable)
80 for FFL Dros and CA legal assembly
50 grip wrap (including shipping from solar tactical)
20 stock extention plus shipping from Kel Tec
$560

But I have hi-cap mags, and want to use them. So featurless build is for me.

Last edited by Mike5150; 04-01-2010 at 9:26 AM..
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  #39  
Old 04-17-2010, 10:21 AM
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I just got a Solar Tactical Kydex slip on grip for a featureless Sub 2000...looks good, but the Kydex wing obstructs function of the charging handle. In the Solar Tactical photo, a charging handle is not shown. I guess I'll just trim the plastic, but what an oddly obvious design flaw.

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Old 04-17-2010, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
Not to get off topic but I wonder what kind of BB Cold War is making. I make one for the SU-16 and I'd like to see what they come up with.

Is the Sub 2000 considered a pistol, carbine, or centerfire rifle in this state?
The Sub2000 mag release looks much different than ours. It would have to be totally redone and first you would have to get it into cali!
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