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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-03-2017, 12:21 PM
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Default Attention to multiburst trigger activators, SlideFire stocks, etc.

OK, y'all have seen the news.

Gov't people wanna "do something" to please the whinging soccer moms.

Expect added attention in California to accessories like the SlideFire and other similar stocks.
("HellFire" and other trigger mods have long been banned.)

The definition of 'multiburst trigger activator' ("MBTA") under CA law really has nothing to do
with nor require modifications to the trigger itself, but instead broadly includes anything facilitating
elevated rates of fire - even a "wiggle stock".

If you & your gun(s) get into an LE-involved situation and it's found to have an MBTA device, expect
high risk of conviction (felony) and lack of lower plea opportunities.

Remember also:
  • MBTA possession alone, even without a matching gun, is a no-no.

  • MBTA status is not changed by any fixed magazine issue, etc/ on the gun as
    "mitigation". MBTA status & the relevant crime are completely separate from
    California AW & other CA gun laws.


Getting rid/destroying such a device does not erase the prior crime, but prevents ongoing crime continuation
and can help make prosecution more difficult. Don't be silly and save it and think you'll get $50 for it in an
adjoining state. Don't throw your guns and gun rights away for a toy piece of plastic. Spend the money on
ammo and learn to shoot better.

Your ***, your money, your rights. Don't expect SlideFire or anyone to pay your legal fees.

[Oh, expect added attention to Tannerite-like stuff too. Yes Tannerite, etc is illegal in CA if you haven't heard,
and there have been multiple successful prosecutions.]
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Last edited by bwiese; 10-03-2017 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:36 PM
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Tannerite prosecution?

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  #3  
Old 10-03-2017, 12:52 PM
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Thanks, Bill
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:59 PM
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What about the Binary triggers like the Franklin Arms?

https://www.franklinarmory.com/produ...i-trigger-pack

EDIT*** NOT Legal in CA.
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Old 10-03-2017, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
What about the Binary triggers like the Franklin Arms?

https://www.franklinarmory.com/produ...i-trigger-pack

Legal in CA as far as I know....
Not Legal.

This is not new, none of these items have been legal in CA for a long time. Tannerite prosecutions have happened, including several well documented ones here on Calguns with members.
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Old 10-03-2017, 1:17 PM
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Not Legal.

This is not new, none of these items have been legal in CA for a long time. Tannerite prosecutions have happened, including several well documented ones here on Calguns with members.
Cool thanks for the clarification!
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Old 10-03-2017, 1:33 PM
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Is the possesion of tannerite illegal? if so how do the stores get away with selling it? I have bought it in he past but not recently.
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Old 10-03-2017, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Glock21sfsd View Post
Is the possesion of tannerite illegal? if so how do the stores get away with selling it? I have bought it in he past but not recently.
Stores really shouldn't - and may well have civil liability issues with buyers who bought
it under their assurances.

There is murky constructive possession of separated "A+B" compounds for explosives
even if A nor B itself is explosive.

Mixed together it is CLEARLY an 'explosive' and prohibited from possession/use.

The store may be able to get away with it because their intent is a sellable product and
not to have it as an explosive.

Remember nobody goes around to stores to check for illegal products in general; gunshop
inspectors look at relevant gun/ammo stuff only. At best, they'll phone in a dead hooker
behind the counter if it's inconvenient to step over her.
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Old 10-03-2017, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
What about the Binary triggers like the Franklin Arms?

https://www.franklinarmory.com/produ...i-trigger-pack

EDIT*** NOT Legal in CA.
Never heard of a Binary trigger, but a 10 second look at your link convinced me they are not CA level.
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Old 10-03-2017, 4:13 PM
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Yep, I sometimes see Tannerite advertised at California stores. Usually in the conservative counties, though....
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Old 10-03-2017, 4:14 PM
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Never heard of a Binary trigger, but a 10 second look at your link convinced me they are not CA level.
It's safest just to assume that anything firearms related that looks fun is not CA legal.
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  #12  
Old 10-03-2017, 5:23 PM
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I only was slightly interested in one of the binary triggers but after what happened in Vegas and what I expect to be the fallout from bumpfire/slidefire stocks I want to get one before they ate completely banned.
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Old 10-03-2017, 5:40 PM
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TAC-CON 3mr trigger legal? I like it's break better then my geissele, Wilson combat, or rock river NM. It's gimmick is it shoots faster because of a more positive reset. Testing shows it doesn't.
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Old 10-03-2017, 5:51 PM
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I don't have any experience with the Tac Con trigger but my high power service rifle started off with a Rock River NM trigger which was a good trigger. But after my RR trigger failed to make weight at a big match and the armory had to change the spring it never felt the same. So I upgraded to a Geissele Service Rifle National Match trigger. Man that is the best trigger on a rifle I had ever felt and broke like a glass rod. If you Geissele does not break the same then you must have it adjusted wrong.
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Old 10-03-2017, 5:56 PM
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Thanks for that Bill.

While I can see the occasional fun of dumping $20 downrange every now and then using "traditional" bump firing methods, when the BF stock came out I did a major
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Old 10-03-2017, 6:40 PM
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Just bought a slide fire stock this morning and had it shipped to my house out of state. I will say one thing, they are definitely hard to find these last few days since the shooting. LOL!!!

Bought a bunch of tannerite too. Geez, I can't wait till my youngest is out of high school and we leave this crap state.

Both items will remain out of state, so spare me the lecturing on how we can't have these things. Yes, Virginia, we can have nice things, just not here.
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Old 10-03-2017, 6:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
At best, they'll phone in a dead hooker
behind the counter if it's inconvenient to step over her.
Hahahaha.



Thanks for the PSA though. I'm sure there's plenty of those floating around in garages just waiting to become a legal liability.
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Old 10-03-2017, 6:59 PM
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Old 10-03-2017, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PSLguy View Post
Just bought a slide fire stock this morning and had it shipped to my house out of state. I will say one thing, they are definitely hard to find these last few days since the shooting. LOL!!!

Bought a bunch of tannerite too. Geez, I can't wait till my youngest is out of high school and we leave this crap state.

Both items will remain out of state, so spare me the lecturing on how we can't have these things. Yes, Virginia, we can have nice things, just not here.
"...since the shooting. LOL!!!!"

Come on, think before you post.
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Old 10-03-2017, 7:03 PM
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Thanks for posting Bill.
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Old 10-03-2017, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PSLguy View Post
Just bought a slide fire stock this morning and had it shipped to my house out of state. I will say one thing, they are definitely hard to find these last few days since the shooting. LOL!!!

Bought a bunch of tannerite too. Geez, I can't wait till my youngest is out of high school and we leave this crap state.

Both items will remain out of state, so spare me the lecturing on how we can't have these things. Yes, Virginia, we can have nice things, just not here.
Curious, what exactly are you LOLing about? The shooting, or all the imbeciles running out and buying these stupid contraptions because of it? Oh, wait...
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Old 10-03-2017, 7:58 PM
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What am I laughing about? Heck, that's easy. I'm laughing about the typical, knee jerk, Liberal response to any gun violence. As Obama's Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel once said, "Never let a crisis go to waste".

Have you ever used the newest slide fire, ambi stocks? I have, and they are a hoot. Very robust and similar to a UBR, just more fun!!

No one is laughing about innocent people being shot, so spare me the baiting remarks. That dog won't hunt.

EDIT: Having said all that, I don't want to thread jack. Bweise's warning here is accurate and worth repeating to everyone we know. Have fun guys, but stay educated, and legal in everything you do. Slide fire stocks, tannerite, etc., are fun, but need to be enjoyed out of state where you don't risk a felony and a lifetime ban on firearms possession. Five minutes of giggle time at the range is not worth your future. Get old like I did and just buy a house out of state.

Last edited by PSLguy; 10-03-2017 at 8:14 PM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 9:07 PM
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Default Attention to multiburst trigger activators, SlideFire stocks, etc.

Bump fire stocks are an issue made for the anti’s. A very very small minority of Americans support unfettered access to full auto firearms or full auto replicating devices. (Most Americans believe full autos are already illegal).
NRA, Trump, and the GOP in Congress will be faced with some hard choices.
Best bet. Let some Obama hold outs at BATF put forth emergency regulations under NFA and kick it up to SCOTUS to rule.
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Old 10-03-2017, 9:37 PM
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NRA, Trump, and the GOP in Congress will be faced with some hard choices.
Not really. Bills that don't come up for a vote die quietly. That's what Harry Reid did during Obama years. No votes on any "inconvenient" subject.

Democrats know this, that's why you are seeing all the blabbing and outrage in the first few days. Next week it will be "dude, that's so last week's news."
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Old 10-03-2017, 9:40 PM
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Not really. Bills that don't come up for a vote die quietly. That's what Harry Reid did during Obama years. No votes on any "inconvenient" subject.

Democrats know this, that's why you are seeing all the blabbing and outrage in the first few days. Next week it will be "dude, that's so last week's news."
Bing!!!! We have a winner. This is a snoozer. if it get's legs, Trump will tweet something awful about an entrenched D politician and the network news will be all over it.. LOL!!!
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:10 PM
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Bill no disrespect meant by this post. I do have a few questions for clarification.

As defined by the mbta statute, the device must increase the rate of fire. I thought the rate of fire is defined by the guns capability. If Jerry Miciluk (sic) can fire as fast as a bumpfire allows someone else to shoot, is the rate of fire actually increased by the stock? Or is the user’s rate of fire increased and the guns capabilities haven’t changed? What about the argument that one round is still fired per trigger pull and only the method of each trigger pull has changed?

Is a persons belt loop considered a mbta?

Also, have their been any prosecutions, opinion letters, or caselaw at all defining a bumpfire stock as an mbta?

What weight does the ATF determination letter defining the bumpfire stock as not an automatic firearm conversion subject to the NFA have against prosecution?

I’m only asking to clarify if your advice is merely cautionary (and sound) speculation or based on precedent. Thanks


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  #27  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:26 PM
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Slide Fire will be so under water from lawsuits in this shooting they have zero chance of surviving. I bet their insurance company for product liability is crapping blood about now.

We have been told by the OP for years the bump fire stock was illegal, and the attorney generals office once made comments to that affect, but as of yet, not prosecutions. That said, it would be financial suicide to test the waters in California although in the right court you might prevail...but your case won't be assigned to the right court and the legal system is rigged contrary to what you were told in civics class. You'll be lynched in some court in San Fransisco and made out to be another Vegas wanna be killer....all because you like mag dumps.


While I am not a trump fan I am grateful he is the president because if it was Hillary we'd be getting ready for ATF raids to take away all but our 22's right about now.

As it stands we face a major onslaught to confiscate any and all semi auto firearms in California from here to eternity, unless ISIS starts a war in our midst.
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Old 10-04-2017, 8:28 AM
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Default Attention to multiburst trigger activators, SlideFire stocks, etc.

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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Slide Fire will be so under water from lawsuits in this shooting they have zero chance of surviving. I bet their insurance company for product liability is crapping blood about now.

We have been told by the OP for years the bump fire stock was illegal, and the attorney generals office once made comments to that affect, but as of yet, not prosecutions. That said, it would be financial suicide to test the waters in California although in the right court you might prevail...but your case won't be assigned to the right court and the legal system is rigged contrary to what you were told in civics class. You'll be lynched in some court in San Fransisco and made out to be another Vegas wanna be killer....all because you like mag dumps.


While I am not a trump fan I am grateful he is the president because if it was Hillary we'd be getting ready for ATF raids to take away all but our 22's right about now.

As it stands we face a major onslaught to confiscate any and all semi auto firearms in California from here to eternity, unless ISIS starts a war in our midst.


The NRA fights any gun control measure based on the slippery slope doctrine. Look no further than the long term results of the Milford act in CA which the NRA supported. Now comes along on the most deadly mass murder using a device intentionally designed to circumvent the 1934 NFA. A strict reading of the act defines machine gun as one that can fire more than one cartridge for each pull of the trigger. (The majority of American incorrectly think that civilian possession of a machine gun is outright illegal). Obama’s BATF surprisingly used this strict interpretation of the law to reach the conclusion bump fire stocks do not constitute a full auto firearm. In face of this too cute by half work around and the resulting massive carnage, the NRA might consider giving this one a pass in return something more important such as passage of the Second Amendment Defense act which would forbid states to pass gun control laws more stringent than federal legislation. Include a provision that devices that mimic full auto are under NFA rules and let the anti’s figure out how to explain why they oppose “common sense gun control.”


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Old 10-04-2017, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Bump fire stocks are an issue made for the anti’s. A very very small minority of Americans oppose unfettered access to full auto firearms or full auto replicating devices. (Most Americans believe full autos are already illegal).
NRA, Trump, and the GOP in Congress will be faced with some hard choices.
Best bet. Let some Obama hold outs at BATF put forth emergency regulations under NFA and kick it up to SCOTUS to rule.
I disagree regarding such a small minority of Americans opposing unfettered access.

While most believe that they're already illegal, most think it should stay that way - hence opposing unfettered access.
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Old 10-04-2017, 9:58 AM
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Bill, Tac-Con claims DOJ says their triggers are CA legal:

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Old 10-04-2017, 9:58 AM
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I disagree regarding such a small minority of Americans opposing unfettered access.



While most believe that they're already illegal, most think it should stay that way - hence opposing unfettered access.


My bad. I meant oppose unfettered access.



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Old 10-04-2017, 10:01 AM
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Default Attention to multiburst trigger activators, SlideFire stocks, etc.

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Bill, Tac-Con claims DOJ says their triggers are CA legal:



As soon as TapCon wants to pay any legal fees and fines for use if their product, I might consider one.


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Old 10-04-2017, 10:12 AM
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As soon as TapCon wants to pay any legal fees and fines for use if their product, I might consider one.


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Is a 1lb trigger with a short reset illegal now?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
In face of this too cute by half work around and the resulting massive carnage, the NRA might consider giving this one a pass in return something more important such as passage of the Second Amendment Defense act which would forbid states to pass gun control laws more stringent than federal legislation. Include a provision that devices that mimic full auto are under NFA rules and let the anti’s figure out how to explain why they oppose “common sense gun control.”
There is no need to give up anything since we will never get anything in return from the antis. It's a bare knuckles battle at this point and neither side will give anything they don't have to.

This story will go away soon and it will be business as usual. Very little can get passed in Congress these days and anything controversial is a non-starter.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:32 AM
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I almost rushed to buy a couple stocks, knowing they'll make some silly laws. But remembered being taught that usually auto fire is just good for dumping money. Semi-auto will work for me.

Idiot lawmakers and stupid people who feel safer with stupid laws

Red
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:34 AM
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Bill no disrespect meant by this post. I understand you are a knowledgeable attorney and looking out for us. I do have a few questions for clarification.
Didn't know Bill passed the BAR. He probably would if he took it though.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:38 AM
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Didn't know Bill passed the BAR. He probably would if he took it though.
Oh maybe I was wrong.. in that case, he’s just another guy on the internet
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:43 AM
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Who can afford something like that? Can't see much use for owning one unless you like to burn through ammo.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:49 AM
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Who can afford something like that? Can't see much use for owning one unless you like to burn through ammo.
It’s not about affording it. It’s about self regulating and allowing more than what is defined by law to be clustered into being illegal. If it isn’t by definitchance j an mbta, we should not concede with the legislators and DOj to consider it illegal anyway.

If it is illegal than t is illegal, if it’s not illegal, we shouldn’t allow them to think we are ok with it being illegal anyways.

Ya gun owners have been self regulating far over what the law requires for a while now. We shouldn’t give them an inch. Unfortunatly, there is no way to do so without being a test case which nobody wants to volunteer for, with good reason.

But until there is a prosecution, we shouldn’t let off an inch
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:52 AM
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Do Rubberbands fall under the same category?
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