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  #1  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:37 AM
xsefan xsefan is offline
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Default Sig 229e out of spec. Sig won't warranty it.

I have a sig with the trigger return spring hole hawked out. With this picture sig says it's not a warranty issue. They will not fix it! The hole is clearly out of spec. How on earth is this not a warranty issue? This is the only gun I have ever seen eat it's self.
The bigger problem is that sig will not stand behind its product. That is a big turn off for me. For the price sig should stand behind its products.
My brother inlaw has a hi point. It's been fixed 3 times by hi point! How can the $200 gun have better service?
I will be shooting my glock more it won't fail me. Plus glock has never had a lifetime warranty. They don't pretend the gun will last forever.
So quick facts. Glock won't eat it's self, hi point has better customer service than Sig Sauer. I'm I missing anything?
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:44 AM
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Old 08-19-2017, 1:12 AM
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How long have you had the gun? Does it affect function?
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Old 08-19-2017, 1:22 AM
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call them again and get a different service rep. if they give you the same story go up the ladder. that looks like a defect of manufacture which is covered under warranty. how many rounds you have through it?
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Old 08-19-2017, 5:54 AM
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Look like someone beat on it with a punch.
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Old 08-19-2017, 7:38 AM
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To sum up some other guys:

1. Does the gun still work?
2. Does the warranty cover normal wear & tear?
3. Have you had it for years and put a million rounds through it?

If the gun still works, I wouldn't worry about it, cuz then it's a cosmetic issue.

My guess on the Hi Point service: They can afford to, since the gun probably costs $10 to make.
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Old 08-19-2017, 8:41 AM
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I would be mad also, but I can see why SIG would not repair or replace that frame. It looks like it would still function. You say it is out-of-spec, but do you have the specs for that gun?

It is similar to GM's specification that their engines can burn a quart of oil in 1000 miles. That is excessive in my opinion, but that is their spec. Their engines usually burn less than 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. My 5.3L engine went from burning no oil to burning 1 qt in 1500 miles. I felt GM should replace or repair it under warranty, but it was within their specs.

I have seen a S&W 5906 pistol eat itself, and it was definitely a warranty issue. There was a heavy burr on the slide where the notch is cut for the slide lock. The burr shaved off the rail. After firing 1 mag my thumb was covered with little 6 and 9 aluminum chips.


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Old 08-19-2017, 8:44 AM
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Are you the original owner? It looks like someone tried to pound in the mag catch backplate while the trigger return spring was in place. It looks like damage caused by owner/operator to me.
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Old 08-19-2017, 8:45 AM
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Did you send them the pic? Maybe they didn't want to warranty it because they saw it stripped down to bare bones and thought you were monkeying around with it. If this issue affects functionality then put it back together, call again and speak to another CSR. If it shoots fine, then shoot it. Good Luck.
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Old 08-19-2017, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saudadeii View Post

Look like someone beat on it with a punch.
This
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Are you the original owner? It looks like someone tried to pound in the mag catch backplate while the trigger return spring was in place. It looks like damage caused by owner/operator to me.
Exactly. This pistol has been abused, Sig did the right thing by denying the warranty claim.
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:47 AM
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Two things come to mind;

1. Looks like shade tree gunsmithing.
2. How does the gun work? Knowing how Sigs work, that won't do jack poop to the function of the gun. Having a Sig with 20,000+ rounds through it and the trigger return spring hole looks nothing like that. It's a P226R.
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saudadeii View Post
Look like someone beat on it with a punch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Are you the original owner? It looks like someone tried to pound in the mag catch backplate while the trigger return spring was in place. It looks like damage caused by owner/operator to me.
Looks that way to me.

DId you buy it used?
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:01 AM
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Serial number is circa 2012.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:40 AM
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:51 AM
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I am nor the original owner! It's my third and last sig. The trigger return is notably less responsive than my 228!
I am a little bit upset that a $1100 hand gun has such poor service. The way it's being handled by sig is disheartening.
It's embarrassing when the $200 High Point has better service. Most people believe you get what you pay for. In my opinion that is not true with the Sig Sauer.
It has about 5000 rounds through it. I have a few more pictures. You can see the spring has eaten into the frame. This was not done by a tool
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:10 AM
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Ever consider that the previous owner messed it up, hence why it was for sale? Sig may have already become aware of this gun. How much did you pay for it? How does a spring eat through a frame?
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:46 AM
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Steel vs aluminum. Aluminum won't win you can see the spring pushing into the frame
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
I would be mad also, but I can see why SIG would not repair or replace that frame. It looks like it would still function. You say it is out-of-spec, but do you have the specs for that gun?

It is similar to GM's specification that their engines can burn a quart of oil in 1000 miles. That is excessive in my opinion, but that is their spec. Their engines usually burn less than 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. My 5.3L engine went from burning no oil to burning 1 qt in 1500 miles. I felt GM should replace or repair it under warranty, but it was within their specs.

I have seen a S&W 5906 pistol eat itself, and it was definitely a warranty issue. There was a heavy burr on the slide where the notch is cut for the slide lock. The burr shaved off the rail. After firing 1 mag my thumb was covered with little 6 and 9 aluminum chips.


.
That hole still is not round. My 228 is.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:58 AM
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Pretty crappy that the previous owner didn't disclosed this to you and as far as sig goes, I can see why they wouldn't warranty it. For all they know it could of been done by the end user. Anywho, it is what it is as of right now..you can keep trying with sig or leave it in your safe and complain how crappy sig's CS is which will still leave you with an "out of spec" gun. OR, (this is what I'll do)..fill that little gap with JB weld, let it sit and harden up, then use a round file to re-open the hole or redrill the hole. Sand paper to finish and clean up and BAM all good again. Problem solved.
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
I am nor the original owner! It's my third and last sig. The trigger return is notably less responsive than my 228!
I am a little bit upset that a $1100 hand gun has such poor service. The way it's being handled by sig is disheartening.
It's embarrassing when the $200 High Point has better service. Most people believe you get what you pay for. In my opinion that is not true with the Sig Sauer.
It has about 5000 rounds through it. I have a few more pictures. You can see the spring has eaten into the frame. This was not done by a tool
If you buy a used car and find out that the previous owner stripped out the oil drain plug do you expect the manufacture to warrantee the oil pan??

If you do you have unrealistic expectations and are going to be disappointed often through out your life. Good luck in the future.

That little wallowed out hole will not affect the trigger reset any. Most trigger reset springs are way stronger then they need to be. That's why competition shooters constantly put in lighter trigger return springs.
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Old 08-19-2017, 2:14 PM
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So you're not the original owner. Have you read their warranty details under the firearms tab?


https://www.sigsauer.com/support/warranty/


Limited Lifetime Warranty

SIG SAUER warrants that the enclosed firearm was originally manufactured free of defects in material, workmanship and mechanical function. For the lifetime of the original purchaser, SIG SAUER agrees to correct any defect in the firearm for the original purchaser by repair, adjustment or replacement, at SIG SAUER’ option, with the same or comparable quality components (or by replacing the firearms at SIG SAUER’ option); provided, however, that the firearm is returned unloaded and freight prepaid to SIG SAUER at 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, NH 03833.

This limited warranty is null and void if the firearm has been misused, damaged (by accident or otherwise), fired with handloaded, reloaded or improper ammunition, fired with an obstruction in the barrel, damaged through failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance as described in the manual accompanying the firearm, or if unauthorized repair or any alteration, including of a cosmetic nature, has been performed on the firearm. This limited warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear of any parts.

Subject to the foregoing, this limited warranty confers the right to have the covered firearm or its parts repaired, adjusted or replaced exclusively upon the original purchaser, which right is not transferable to any other person. No implied warranties of any kind are made herein and this warranty does not apply to any accessory items attached or appurtenant to the firearm.

In no event shall SIG SAUER be liable for any incidental or consequential damages arising from or in connection with this limited warranty.
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Old 08-19-2017, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
I would be mad also, but I can see why SIG would not repair or replace that frame. It looks like it would still function. You say it is out-of-spec, but do you have the specs for that gun?

It is similar to GM's specification that their engines can burn a quart of oil in 1000 miles. That is excessive in my opinion, but that is their spec. Their engines usually burn less than 1/2 quart in 3000 miles. My 5.3L engine went from burning no oil to burning 1 qt in 1500 miles. I felt GM should replace or repair it under warranty, but it was within their specs.

I have seen a S&W 5906 pistol eat itself, and it was definitely a warranty issue. There was a heavy burr on the slide where the notch is cut for the slide lock. The burr shaved off the rail. After firing 1 mag my thumb was covered with little 6 and 9 aluminum chips.


.
Too bad on your Chevy. I bought my wife an 2012 Equinox and started having oil issues with. I found out that they used crappy rings in the 2010-2012's.

I got her engine rebuilt in January and it's running better than it did when it was new.

Here's a link to a thread I started on it http://www.equinoxforum.net/showthread.php?t=10876

If you're still under warranty I would recommend doing it the way I did it and giving it a try again.

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Old 08-19-2017, 2:31 PM
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yeah I thought you were the original owner. you're sol bro.
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Old 08-19-2017, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
I am nor the original owner! It's my third and last sig. The trigger return is notably less responsive than my 228!
I am a little bit upset that a $1100 hand gun has such poor service. The way it's being handled by sig is disheartening.
It's embarrassing when the $200 High Point has better service. Most people believe you get what you pay for. In my opinion that is not true with the Sig Sauer.
It has about 5000 rounds through it. I have a few more pictures. You can see the spring has eaten into the frame. This was not done by a tool
Many people consider themselves gunsmiths & tinker with their gun & screw up something. Then they sell it as "Customized." That's probably how your gun got that way & Sig wouldn't be responsible for it.

Several years ago I also bought a used Sig that misfired. The previous owner tried to lighten the trigger. Lesson learned - NEW guns only.
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Old 08-19-2017, 4:06 PM
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That is a very common damage when people decided to try swapping the mag release around or when someone decided to us pliers to take off that spring. I recent took apart my MK25 to install the P-SAIT from Grayguns, that spring has a very unique way of coming out, trying to force it out can result in damage because that area is very fragile. Not saying that the gun is fragile, just how it was designed the parts all come together to reinforce the frame from breakage. I've seen a P226 get run over on the Sig testing video.

Last edited by _TomT_; 08-19-2017 at 7:51 PM..
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Old 08-19-2017, 4:31 PM
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You should direct your anger to the guy who sold the gun to you, not Sig.

I have a 1989 Sig P226 with a steel trigger return spring in the aluminum hole in the frame, thousands of rounds and the spring has been changed several times. Shows no signs of wear. Sorry man, you were taken by the seller.
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
Many people consider themselves gunsmiths & tinker with their gun & screw up something. Then they sell it as "Customized." That's probably how your gun got that way & Sig wouldn't be responsible for it.

Several years ago I also bought a used Sig that misfired. The previous owner tried to lighten the trigger. Lesson learned - NEW guns only.
Clearly you don't know much about fire arms or gun smithing.you can Cleary see the aluminum is pushed up and out of the rut the spring is cutting. . That was why I left that plate in place for the pictures. None of my guns look this nasty. This 229 no longer looks this bad.
That hole should be round. It is not.
Sig has had this problem before. They have tried to fix it first by making spings harder. Next by re designing the spings and changing the design of the grips.
This has not fixed the problem.
Do a little research.
This post was started to let others know this is a problem and that a company as big as sig only wants your money. They do not want your loyalty. I am not out burning my legion hat. I do have 2 other sig products. Now I know sig won't back up its products and I will think twice about letting sig stand between my family and danger.
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piedrarc View Post
You should direct your anger to the guy who sold the gun to you, not Sig.

I have a 1989 Sig P226 with a steel trigger return spring in the aluminum hole in the frame, thousands of rounds and the spring has been changed several times. Shows no signs of wear. Sorry man, you were taken by the seller.
No anger.
I was asked to cerakote this gun found the problem. After the email to sig and there poor service response I bought this gun .previous owner is now a happy glock owner. I own enough guns. About a year ago I bought the TTT. I have loved that 1911. Then I got a 228. Now this one. After reading about sigs long history with this spring eating into frames I am shocked that they will not stand behind its product and it's know flaws. Now with the 320 issue. It seems sig is more into advertising and suckling up peoples money. Not showing customer that they value customer safety or perception. This problem is rare. For sig not to fix this stops me from buying a 220 stainless or a higher end sig.
It seems a custom glock or less bear will be in my future before new sig. After my mp3008 build.
I will not be taking a sig to pistol classes. It will no longer be in my night stand. Sig is just not a good value.
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Old 08-19-2017, 9:58 PM
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We can all see the hole is not round, and we all know the hole is supposed to be round.

What we are saying is that is not normal, and would not happen on a gun with stock parts that was properly maintained. No way, no how does that happen by itself from normal use with original parts and proper gunsmithing.

Something either jammed up the spring (like a grip panel) so it could not operate and move normally and with normal clearances, or it happened some other way caused by amateur gunsmithing.

For instance, you do know that older Sig grips will interfere with the new style return spring? Most people do not know that, and they will upgrade to the new style trigger return spring like yours, without ever giving any thought to the grips having the correct relief for the new spring. And you have to be careful with aftermarket grips to be sure they have clearance for the spring. Most people think grips are drop-in but that is not always the case.

I have about 20 Sigs including my oldest P226 from 1989 and one from 1990, and they do not have the problem you are showing us. But when I modernized my 1989 P226, I had to mill clearances into the grips for the new style return spring and the new style hammer strut base.

And I keep my Sig frames greased in all of those areas, to avoid any galling or wear damage where steel interfaces with the aluminum frame. The same way the gun ships from the factory. I see you run yours pretty dry. I see no grease at all on that spring.

If you are so worried about the steel to aluminum interface, you should liberally apply grease to those interfaces after every cleaning.

And it is very evident from the witness marks on the mag catch backplate, that at some point in this gun's life - a person who had no idea what they are doing was working on it.

Sig will fix a lot of things, but the frame *is* the gun. It is the one thing they cannot fix if it is damaged, it has to be replaced. That is a lot to ask of them when it is clear that a hack has worked on this gun at some point. The marks on the backplate literally say 'Bubba was here' - and you sent them that pic and asked for a new frame?

The good news is, that out of round hole should have ZERO impact on the reliability or operation of the gun. So I seriously don't see what all the fuss is about.

If you are very worried about it, you could have it tig welded and redrill the hole (probably what I would do) before cerakote, or install a press fit steel bushing with red loctite, or other remedies. I would at minimum clean it up, get rid of the displaced aluminum, and round the end of the slot that is growing to prevent it from spreading.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:32 PM
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It's a p229 e . It's all stock from the factory. They only part changed was the recoil sping. It left the factory with the srt kit and the e2 grips. What improper modification do you see?
It's a problem sig has been trying to fix since the 80s.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:46 PM
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One thing to note with E2 grips is you need to be careful when installing them. Do not jam it in, remember Aluminum is softer than normal metal.

Also from what I gathered Sig seems to have remedied the issue by moving the notch so that it now rests on the steel mag release.

Here's a pic of an early Sig.

IMG_0179.jpg

Now here's a more modern Sig probably made within the last 4-5 years.

10944921995_9fae570225_c.jpg

That being said SIG like all companies are not perfect, they did have a rough patch for a few years I think it was 2007-2010 when they lowered their quality greatly and it later bit them in the arse. OP might have one of those Sigs.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
No anger.

I was asked to cerakote this gun found the problem. After the email to sig and there poor service response I bought this gun .previous owner is now a happy glock owner. I own enough guns. About a year ago I bought the TTT. I have loved that 1911. Then I got a 228. Now this one. After reading about sigs long history with this spring eating into frames I am shocked that they will not stand behind its product and it's know flaws. Now with the 320 issue. It seems sig is more into advertising and suckling up peoples money. Not showing customer that they value customer safety or perception. This problem is rare. For sig not to fix this stops me from buying a 220 stainless or a higher end sig.

It seems a custom glock or less bear will be in my future before new sig. After my mp3008 build.

I will not be taking a sig to pistol classes. It will no longer be in my night stand. Sig is just not a good value.


I can see your frustration, sucks.

I'd like to know where I can review this long history with the spring eating into the frames. Where can I find that? Also to be fair - classic Sig's and Beretta's 92 types all have steel slides reciprocating on aluminum frames with more friction. They just don't wear out. Which is why you hear us telling you the gun was hacked on improperly.



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Old 08-19-2017, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by _TomT_ View Post
One thing to note with E2 grips is you need to be careful when installing them. Do not jam it in, remember Aluminum is softer than normal metal.

Also from what I gathered Sig seems to have remedied the issue by moving the notch so that it now rests on the steel mag release.

Here's a pic of an early Sig.

Attachment 632661

Now here's a more modern Sig probably made within the last 4-5 years.

Attachment 632662

That being said SIG like all companies are not perfect, they did have a rough patch for a few years I think it was 2007-2010 when they lowered their quality greatly and it later bit them in the arse. OP might have one of those Sigs.
Interesting. It seems like if the mag release plate giving support to the spring would help (and I can see that it would), then a very slightly longer plate would be a great and easy update for the older guns.

I see the plates are slightly different, the new style is symmetrical on both sides - I wonder if it is longer and if so, could be used in an older gun?

I will drag out my old Sigs in a couple of days and take the grips off and have a good look, and also compare dimensions of the plates to a newer sig.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:52 PM
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It would if the plate was long enough. Cheap fix I'll look for some links. You can google the spring and see the design change. Plus you will see you can not put old style grips on the new guns. When I get to work tomorrow I can email a,few pictures of the old springs and the inside of a,west german 226 grip .
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:55 PM
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Up you can see the old sping^^^^ they have been that way since 2001 at least
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
It would if the plate was long enough. Cheap fix I'll look for some links. You can google the spring and see the design change. Plus you will see you can not put old style grips on the new guns. When I get to work tomorrow I can email a,few pictures of the old springs and the inside of a,west german 226 grip .
You can use old grips with new springs if you modify the grips.

You could also possibly peen the end of that plate with a hammer, to stretch it out and make it longer so it covers up the slot that has been worn into the frame, and also keeps the spring from doing any more damage. Take the plate out of the gun before you go hammering on it though! It may also be possible to put a bead of weld on the end of the plate then regrind it to the length you want.

This is my 1989 P226, with modified old school grips and running new trigger return spring and new hammer strut base. The grips were modified internally using an endmill to provide clearance for the new style parts. From the outside you cannot tell.

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Old 08-20-2017, 12:30 AM
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It has about 5000 rounds through it.
5,000 by you? If you aren't the original owner it's hard to actually know the round count. It sucks, but it can be fixed...

As far as a $200 High Point, it's a piece of crap. They could probably afford to send you a new gun each time it breaks for what it costs to make those turds.
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Old 08-20-2017, 9:20 AM
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5,000 by you? If you aren't the original owner it's hard to actually know the round count. It sucks, but it can be fixed...

As far as a $200 High Point, it's a piece of crap. They could probably afford to send you a new gun each time it breaks for what it costs to make those turds.
That was kinda my point. Hi point will repair or replace on the $200 pos yet sig is un willing to repair the $1100 gun.

Sig chooses not to keep customers happy
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Old 08-20-2017, 9:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Are you the original owner? It looks like someone tried to pound in the mag catch backplate while the trigger return spring was in place. It looks like damage caused by owner/operator to me.
This.
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