[REDHORSE]

I created a CFLC flowchart.

This will help out of state FFLs that may be hesitant to ship firearms into our State. Hopefully the flowchart will help the FFLs understand how simple the CFLC process is.

I've never used the CFLC online application (I'm not an FFL). So, I'll need help from those that have used the CFLC web application to help verify that the flowchart is correct.

I got the info from the CFLC User manual, so if the manual is out of date or wrong, the flowchart may be incorrect.

I'd like to keep the flowchart as simple as possible. To avoid confusing the out of State FFLs or dissuading them from ever shipping firearms to California FFLs.

Draft #5
Screen shots of the color & FAX friendly version 0.5:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2...dfver05tr8.png
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/610...axver05jf0.png


Draft #4 (out dated)
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6...dfver04gi3.png
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/172...axver04mj4.png

Draft #3 (out dated)
Screen shots of the color & FAX friendly version 0.3:
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6...dfver03ij6.png
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2...axver03tf9.png

Draft #2 (out dated)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4080/cflcv2en9.jpg

Draft #1: (Out dated)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5083/cflcgi8.jpg

When we get this finalized, I'll create a PDF file of the flowchart.

I'd appreciate any feedback (including spelling & grammer Nazis)

[ptoguy2002]

Maybe something about if your not an FFL or sending from an FFL, you don't need one.
Don't need one to receive back a gun from the mfg or gunsmith.
etc, etc

[GunSlut]

A type 01 CA`Dealers do not have a shipment recipient CL number. They have a CFD#

That California Firearms Dealer number is also what you input to ship to them.

You also did not include exemption for type 03 dealers.

[REDHORSE]

Originally Posted by ptoguy2002

Maybe something about if your not an FFL or sending from an FFL, you don't need one.
Don't need one to receive back a gun from the mfg or gunsmith.
etc, etc

Yellow box states that the CFLC is for FFLs. Only FFLs can only enroll on the CFLC web site. CFLC ID is made up from the first 3 digits and last 5 digits of their FFL license #.

I'll think about adding something about non-FFLs.

The flowchart is something a CA member can send to an out of state FFL, if they need help to explain the CFLC process to an out of state FFL that has not gone through the CFLC process.

CA FFLs should already know & be familiar with the CFLC process.

Originally Posted by GunSlut

A type 01 CA`Dealers do not have a shipment recipient CL number. They have a CFD#

That California Firearms Dealer number is also what you input to ship to them.

Ok, I'll have to look into this further. Is the CFD # used in the CFLC web application? Can you elaborate more? Remember, I've never used the CFLC application or worked in a gun store.

So are you saying that CA FFL 01 are using their CFD # instead of the Recipient CL #.

Is the CFD # the same as Recipient CL #?

OR they can use their CFD # in place of a Recipient CL #?

Originally Posted by GunSlut

You also did not include exemption for type 03 dealers.

FFL Type 03 & Type 06 has been explained twice on the flowchart. The green box by the START bubble and in the yellow box.

I wanted to add that as one of the first bubbles, but space is at a premium. I'll see if I can work it in a future revision, if I can make space for it.

Thanks for the help guys... keep them coming.

[OCArmory]

I use my CFD number. It is the same number that I do my DROS transactions under. i am not sure what a reciepient CL# is

[freakshow10mm]

The website states "CFD number".

[Blackwater OPS]

Nice!

[REDHORSE]

I got all my info from the User Manual.

CFLC User Manual (Word Doc.)

Can you guys check out the manual and compare it to the actual CFLC web site and tell me if the manual is even close to what the CFLC looks like.

It wouldn't surprise me if the manual is out of date.

Do I need to change the "recipient CL #" to CFD #?
Can both be used?
Are they the same thing?




Thx

Draft #2



CFLC flowchart draft ver #2 HTML

[freakshow10mm]

The CFD (California Firearms Dealer) number is the number you put into the system and is on the CL (Centralized List). The Centralized List number they refer to is the CFD number.

The DOJ letter that is given to a FFL dealer in California to show them they are in the system states "California Firearms Dealer xxxxx", which is their CFD number in the Centralized List.

[ke6guj]

even though you have mentioned that 03 and 06 FFLs are exempt, it may still be confusing to those 01's that think "I'm not an 03 or 06, so I'm not exempt". Not realizing that if the recipient is an 03 or 06, then the entire transaction is exempt.

Maybe having two blue boxes right at the beginning, right after the start box. The first asking "are you an 03, 06, or private party?" If so, exempt. The second asking, "are you shipping to an 03 or 06?" If so, exempt.

[zirconjohn]

Nice job RH!

I am new here, my 1'st post.

Your flow chart Draft #2 looking really good... I have one suggestion in addition to what these other people are helpin' you with.

The color flow chart is great on-line, prints good on my color printer as well.

Would it be possible for you to include a 'non-color' chart saved in .pdf? I.E. no fill color etc. Fax machines tend to grossly over exposure the color background and wash out the text, also a waste of ink.

Again, great job... how many times I gotta spend on the phone with some guy lives in [say] Texas, I'm explainin' and ol' Tex hollerin' at me "I gotta do WHAT! etc. "Eesh!" - I could fax an easy to read "black & white plain text" flow chart and BAM! - Done, ship the darn thing already!

Thanks,

[383green]

Good job! Your flowcharts are attractive and helpful.

I have one small grammar correction: "Create an CFLC account" should be "Create a CFLC account".

[Anthonysmanifesto]

the ffl 03 exemption thing is difficult to document.

it would help those who are concerned to have it documented.

another fantastic tool created here on calguns... thanks!

[REDHORSE]

Yea this is still a BETA. Thanks for the input.

I'll be updating it to Draft #3 soon. I plan on visiting a local FFL and if they let me, look over their shoulders as they go through the process. So, I get a better and accurate understanding of it.

I still need to confirm the CFD# vs. CFLC # issue firsthand.

Originally Posted by zirconjohn

Would it be possible for you to include a 'non-color' chart saved in .pdf? I.E. no fill color etc. Fax machines tend to grossly over exposure the color background and wash out the text, also a waste of ink.

" - I could fax an easy to read "black & white plain text" flow chart and BAM! - Done, ship the darn thing already!

Will do, great idea. Draft #3 will have a B&W version (FAX friendly).

Originally Posted by 383green

Good job! Your flowcharts are attractive and helpful.

I have one small grammar correction: "Create an CFLC account" should be "Create a CFLC account".

I'm no English major, but I recall...

For acronyms that are pronounced as the letters, I believe 'an' is the correct grammar. It may sound weird, but I believe it is correct.

For acronyms commonly pronounced as words like NATO & NASA, an 'a' is appropriate.

[383green]

Originally Posted by REDHORSE

I'm no English major, but I recall...

For acronyms that are pronounced as the letters, I believe 'an' is the correct grammar. It may sound weird, but I believe it is correct.

For acronyms commonly pronounced as words like NATO & NASA, an 'a' is appropriate.

I could be wrong, but my recollection is that "a" is used when the following word starts with a consonant sound, and "an" is used with it starts with a vowel sound. Since CFLC would be pronounced "see eff ell see", "a" sounds right to me. But, maybe that only applies for real words, and not abbreviations or acronyms?

BTW, what would "a NASA" be? I thought we just had one of those.

[Dr Rockso]

Originally Posted by REDHORSE

I'm no English major, but I recall...

For acronyms that are pronounced as the letters, I believe 'an' is the correct grammar. It may sound weird, but I believe it is correct.

For acronyms commonly pronounced as words like NATO & NASA, an 'a' is appropriate.

I found this in an online style guide:

Use the appropriate article (a, an, or the) with abbreviations and acronyms when you would use that article in speech. In general, if an acronym (like NASA or NATO) is pronounced as a word rather than as a series of letters (the AFL-CIO), you do not need an article when the acronym is used as a noun. The choice between using a or an with an acronym or abbreviation is governed by how the acronym or abbreviation is typically spoken. Following these guidelines, we get the following:

A NASA scientist was honored at last night's dinner.
What we need is an HTML writer.

"what we need is an HTML writer" uses "an" because it is pronounced starting with a vowel sound (aitch tee em ell), not because the individual letters are pronounced.

[REDHORSE]

Posted DRAFT #3 in the OP.

• Now with FAX friendly version (good idea zirconjohn!)
• Changed bubbles to 'CFD' #, instead of CL #
• Removed the extra 'or' in the 2nd bubble
• Changed coloring of the bottom bubble
• Info box now has CFLC HTML links listed (for printed copies) & added a few acronyms. The hot HTML links are of no help when printed.

I think we're pretty close to a final draft Version 1.0

Just looking for more feedback and I'll finally pay a visit to a local FFL to verify accuracy.

Thanks for the HELP guys!

I'll post the links to the PDF files, when we have a final draft.

[Nodda Duma]

Insert a bubble after 1st:

"Is receiving party an FFL 03?" (Not sure what other exemptions there are on receiving end).

If answer is "YES" then direct to "You are exempt from having to use CFLC process"

-Jason

C&R License holders in California are exempted from CFLC, and in fact cannot sign up to be registered in CFLC database.


edit: If you were trying to say this in the first bubble, you may want to reword it. It sounds like the exemptions are for the sending party side, and that's not entirely correct. Otherwise looks great!

[dirtyJ]

Super nit picky I know, but first blue box, most commonly accepted and used spelling is "license", not licence. Doesn't necessarily apply to me, but good stuff anyways .

[REDHORSE]

I could rephrase the first bubble or add a note to say C&R long guns are exempt from the CFLC process, if the receiving party has an FFL 03 C&R license.

[REDHORSE]

Originally Posted by dirtyJ

Super nit picky I know, but first blue box, most commonly accepted and used spelling is "license", not licence. Doesn't necessarily apply to me, but good stuff anyways .

Your right. BOF uses that spelling, so I should use it on the flow chart.

Spell checker isn't high lighting the alternative spelling. thx

[Nodda Duma]

Originally Posted by REDHORSE

I could rephrase the first bubble or add a note to say C&R long guns are exempt from the CFLC process, if the receiving party has an FFL 03 C&R license.

That'd be great...I think the FFL03 exemption has been seriously under-empahsized, and CA collectors have felt it more than others. Sometimes you simply can't "go to another dealer" when collecting C&R's. Hard enough to find collectible items without getting swept up in the CFLC business.

-Jason

[REDHORSE]

Posted Draft #4 in the OP.

• Added C&R bubble.
• Resized and moved most of the bubbles around to fit C&R bubble.
• Changed the wording in several of the bubbles.
• Change color of exempt bubble.
• Added punctuation to several bubbles missing them.
• "an" & "a" changed, just sounds better the other way.
• Licence => License

I changed the wording to quite a few, please check all the bubbles to see if the text looks, sounds better, and makes sense.

Thanks!

[Nodda Duma]

looks good

-Jason

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by dirtyJ

Super nit picky I know, but first blue box, most commonly accepted and used spelling is "license", not licence. Doesn't necessarily apply to me, but good stuff anyways .

Good pull...not nitpicky at all

All good suggestions...looks good.

[artherd]

FANTASTIC work, as always!

[Lee F. Smith]

Awesome, another great education tool from CalGuns members

[REDHORSE]

Made some more small edits. Just getting your opinions to the change, before posting yet another update.

• Top middle bubble in the pic. I changed the wording a little. Became kind of repetitive with 3 bubbles nearby sounding the same. Changed the "Call..." to "Contact the recipient FFL..."
• Green bottom middle bubble. Added "the"...

nothing else changed yet... Let me know if something can be worded better...

Thanks.

[sb_pete]

AWESOME!
These flowcharts are a great resource that help all CA gun owners. Thank you for the time and effort.

Originally Posted by ke6guj

even though you have mentioned that 03 and 06 FFLs are exempt, it may still be confusing to those 01's that think "I'm not an 03 or 06, so I'm not exempt". Not realizing that if the recipient is an 03 or 06, then the entire transaction is exempt.

Maybe having two blue boxes right at the beginning, right after the start box. The first asking "are you an 03, 06, or private party?" If so, exempt. The second asking, "are you shipping to an 03 or 06?" If so, exempt.

+1. I like the two boxes added at the beginning, but I think for extra clarity the second bubble that currently says:

Are you shipping a C&R long gun(s) to a CA FFL 03?

Should be changed to:

Are you an FFL 01 shipping a C&R long gun(s) to a CA FFL 03?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by sb_pete

+1. I like the two boxes added at the beginning, but I think for extra clarity the second bubble that currently says:

Are you shipping a C&R long gun(s) to a CA FFL 03?

Should be changed to:

Are you an FFL 01 shipping a C&R long gun(s) to a CA FFL 03?

why? Anybody shipping a C&R long gun to a CA 03 FFL would be exempt from the CFLC. If you are saying that 03,06, and non-licensees are excluded from that buble by the first bubble, you still have 02 FFL, 07 FFL, etc in addition to the 01 FFL that would not need to do the CFLC process if shipping to an 03. Maybe the first and second bubbles should be swapped in order?

[REDHORSE]

Posted Draft #5

• Swapped bub#3 & #2, I wanted to do this earlier.
• Some text changed in the middle bubbles, as posted earlier.
• Fixed some of the lines (shadows, line thickness to make uniform..I missed a few)

Looking close to the final draft IMHO.

I think the next flowchart will be for the pistols...