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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-27-2008, 12:00 PM
223andme 223andme is offline
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Default Bolt Carriers

I've read many people say that they would only use a M-16 bolt carrier in their rifles because they are milspec and mpi'd instead of the standard semi-auto bolt carriers.This was standard practice back in the 80's when I purchased my first CAR-15, but now I'm confused. I thought the ATF said that you can't use even one M-16 part or else the rifle would be considered f.a. This would include triggers, hammers, selectors, bolt carriers, etc. Any input on this subject would be appreciated. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2008, 12:13 PM
AJAX22 AJAX22 is offline
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The bolt carrier is not considered to be one of the restricted parts.

the Fire control group is however, so don't have a hammer, disconnector, trigger or sear from an M16 in your rifle.

I run M16 bolt carriers in all of my rifles.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2008, 3:08 PM
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not all "M16" carriers are HPT/MPI'd. Make sure the one you're buying is.

They are not illegal:

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/...6%20Letter.pdf
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Old 10-27-2008, 4:15 PM
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Thanks to everyone for your replys.
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Old 10-27-2008, 5:00 PM
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wow that is the most straightfoward letter ive ever seen from the atf

i remember another letter saying that as long as the part doesn't cause the gun to fire automatically it is ok but it was worded very wishy washy
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Old 10-27-2008, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
not all "M16" carriers are HPT/MPI'd
It's the bolts, not that carriers, that undergo HPT and MPI testing.
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Old 10-27-2008, 7:07 PM
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I run 16 carriers in my 11.5" W/5.5" FS, and my 18" middy....
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Old 10-27-2008, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telperion View Post
It's the bolts, not that carriers, that undergo HPT and MPI testing.
of course. But complete carriers are sold with bolts. Be sure they're HPT/MPI'd
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Old 10-27-2008, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
The bolt carrier is not considered to be one of the restricted parts.

the Fire control group is however, so don't have a hammer, disconnector, trigger or sear from an M16 in your rifle.

I run M16 bolt carriers in all of my rifles.
This is FUD, there is nothing illegal about running M16 parts in your lower.

It may not be wise to do so, nor is there any good reason to do so, but in no way will M16 parts make your weapon fire automatically or illegal and you do not have a machinegun unless there is a little pin above your selector that is holding in the autosear.

Quoted from AR15.com

If the parts installed make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger, they are illegal.

A M16 bolt carrier will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger.

A M16 hammer will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger.

A M16 trigger will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger.

A M16 disconnect will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger.

A M16 disconnector will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger.

A M16 selector will not make your gun fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger. But combined with a M16 disconnector, it can cause a slam fire condition and not safe to use.

All ATF letters saying not to use any M16 parts are designed to keep shooters from inadvertanly making a MG but are recommendations only and are not consistent with the law.

The OP did not ask anyone's opinion on whether he should use a M16 bolt carrier and hammer, he asked if they are legal to use. They are legal to use.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2008, 11:45 PM
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Those carriers are too heavy for me. I like low disturbance of my site picture and you won't get it with those.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Interesting! based on that letter, it sounds like one could install basically a FA FCG (hammer, disconnector, trigger, springs, etc.) and a M16 carrier into an AR as even with all those parts, the AR would still NOT be a "machinegun" since the lack of a auto-sear would still render it as just a mere semi-auto.

Now if you have a DIAS or RR sear parts, that could be constructive possession...but so long as you don't have that one part, it sounds like you can have the rest...

Thoughts?


As for BCG's, I consider the BCG as a VERY important part of the rifle so I don't skimp on it (then again, I don't skimp on any of it really). I only use Colt, FNMI (REAL FNMI, not that BS that they sell at gunshows as being "FN"), AO and BCM. Occasionally, I'll use LMT's but with LMT's lackluster quality control of late, rather than just doing a standard check (fit and dry function check in the intended upper and headspacing), I check it in multiple new uppers (which are almost always Colt or FNMI). I've found a few LMT BCG's that I had to get a refund on...

Colt and FNMI are the only two that I know that fully HPT and MPI their bolts. AO might also since they're a USGI supplier (not just a "contractor"). BCM does batch testing generally but some of them are individually tested. All of the Ion Bonded BCM BCG's are individually HPT/MPI tested. LMT claims to HPT/MPI their bolts...I have to say, with the problem bolts I've had from them, I wonder if this is true.

All the others...Stag/CMT, DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA, etc., etc... all batch test (if at all) and none of them stake their carrier keys correctly. I think I've staked about three dozen "commercial" carriers in various classes due to failures (gas key comes loose).
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Last edited by RECCE556; 10-29-2008 at 1:06 AM..
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RECCE556 View Post
Interesting! based on that letter, it sounds like one could install basically a FA FCG (hammer, disconnector, trigger, springs, etc.) and a M16 carrier into an AR as even with all those parts, the AR would still NOT be a "machinegun" since the lack of a auto-sear would still render it as just a mere semi-auto.
A slam fire could result in full auto fire, resulting in big trouble. Ask Olafson of Wisconsin. Currently serving a prison sentence for a malfunction that caused full auto fire (using soft primers).

My advice: semi auto parts in a semi auto gun and full auto parts in a full auto gun.

BCG doesn't matter. Keep the FCG M16 free. Piece of mind is priceless.
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  #13  
Old 10-29-2008, 1:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
A slam fire could result in full auto fire, resulting in big trouble. Ask Olafson of Wisconsin. Currently serving a prison sentence for a malfunction that caused full auto fire (using soft primers).
Yeah, that is such a BS case on part of the ATF. I mean talk about blatant crookedness by a government agency...wait, that's not a surprise, is it?

Hopefully this case will get overturned. The ATF has to be re-organized and reined in. They are really out of control...I love how ATF's "expert" couldn't reassemble the AR...expert, eh?

FWIW, I don't own a single M16 FCG part but I found that ATF letter interesting. I also found it interesting that the malfunction gun was an Olympic Arms...hehehe...my friend recently had is registered Oly go tango uniform on him during a training course..his hammer spring snapped in half and he snapped the hammer pin. Lucky for him, I carry a full LPK (minus the grip) in my range bag...I always seem to be fixing other people's guns...hehehe...I can' recall ever having to use the parts for my own guns...guess I'm not using them hard enough? (or maybe I'm not buying junk guns! )
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