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  #1  
Old 10-22-2008, 5:20 AM
AJAX22 AJAX22 is offline
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Default Eagle Cal. .45 Open bolt semi auto carbine, Coming soon!

I still can't believe that I found it, these were made in very low numbers and are so unbelievably freaking cool.

I've been researching these for some time now... anyone want to guess why they are so rare/sought after/collectible? (Yes it DOES take surplus M3 grease gun mags)

I'll give you a hint: They don't make em like they used to



(photos show the carbine assembled out of state, it will be disassembled before coming into CA where it will get a fixed 10 round mag..)




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Last edited by AJAX22; 10-30-2008 at 3:42 PM..
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2008, 5:56 AM
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so what was the final price on it?
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2008, 6:07 AM
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775 shipped (OUCH!)

I'm officially broke, but I had to do it... gonna live off rammen noodles for a while.

Still its about 1/3 of what it would have gone for if it had been properly listed so it was still a good deal.

you know these things sold for like $119-169 bucks back in the early sixties?
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  #4  
Old 10-22-2008, 6:17 AM
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oooh nice.. i want one congratulations!
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2008, 6:28 AM
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Very nice type writer.
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  #6  
Old 10-22-2008, 6:32 AM
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It does use a real surplus 1928 Thompson stock

although the fore grip and fins are aluminum as is the lower receiver.

It is actually much more closely related to the M3 mechanically.
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Old 10-22-2008, 7:40 AM
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I'm sad to say I remember seeing ads for those back in the late 60's. Sucks being old, other than the cool old toys we have that the new kids can't get.

How do you get around the determination by the batf that the open-bolt Spitfire's are NFA weapons? In reading the ruling I didn't see an exemption for "made prior to x date"?

Is this a variation that isn't "named" in the Spitfire ruling?

Last edited by redcliff; 10-22-2008 at 7:45 AM..
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Old 10-22-2008, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
I still can't believe that I found it, these were made in very low numbers and are so unbelievably freaking cool.

I've been researching these for some time now... anyone want to guess why they are so rare/sought after/collectible? (Yes it DOES take surplus M3 grease gun mags)

I'll give you a hint: They don't make em like they used to



(photos show the carbine assembled out of state, it will be disassembled before coming into CA where it will get a fixed 10 round mag..)





Looks like the Spitfire carbine that fires from an open bolt. The ATF looked askance on them because of that feature and the perceived ease in conversion to FA. Tread very carefully on this one.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2008, 9:28 AM
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Heh....

Well you guys are close (redcliff actually nailed it) It is the predecessor to the Spitfire called the Eagle, made by a different company but also an open bolt design. The only difference between the Eagle and the spitfire (aside from the name and manufacturer) is that the eagle has a machined front sight whereas the spitfire has a cast front site assembly. Because it was pre 68, and the company who manufactured it was out of business it was completely overlooked. And since there were only a few produced it wasn't worth the time or hassle for them.

Y'all are correct that the the Spitfire WAS determined to be a machine gun, all of them were declared machine guns and registered or surrendered. This however is NOT a Spitfire and has never been named by any ATF ruling. They could in theory issue a ruling now, but they would have to allow for registration as a machine gun and for $200 I'd get to own a 5-10K NFA registered MG.


And while these are exceedingly easy to convert to FA, (all open bolt guns really are) this one was one of the few which wasn't. (most were turned into MG's prior to the 86 ban)

Not a banned by name assault weapon, not a machine gun since it was made before 82... Just a badass semi auto open bolt .45 acp carbine.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
Heh....

Well you guys are close (redcliff actually nailed it) It is the predecessor to the Spitfire called the Eagle, made by a different company but also an open bolt design. The only difference between the Eagle and the spitfire (aside from the name and manufacturer) is that the eagle has a machined front sight whereas the spitfire has a cast front site assembly. Because it was pre 68, and the company who manufactured it was out of business it was completely overlooked. And since there were only a few produced it wasn't worth the time or hassle for them.

Y'all are correct that the the Spitfire WAS determined to be a machine gun, all of them were declared machine guns and registered or surrendered. This however is NOT a Spitfire and has never been named by any ATF ruling. They could in theory issue a ruling now, but they would have to allow for registration as a machine gun and for $200 I'd get to own a 5-10K NFA registered MG.


And while these are exceedingly easy to convert to FA, (all open bolt guns really are) this one was one of the few which wasn't. (most were turned into MG's prior to the 86 ban)

Not a banned by name assault weapon, not a machine gun since it was made before 82... Just a badass semi auto open bolt .45 acp carbine.
Awesome acquisition Ajax22, and thanks for the info. Will you have to fix the stock so it's not quick detachable? I remember reading that the AO Thompsons have to require a tool to remove to prevent classification as a sbr, and so do the fixed stocks on Uzi's.
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2008, 10:04 AM
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Well, you do have the most unique collection of firearms AJAX22. Nice find.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2008, 10:06 AM
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Nope redcliff, it just needs the mag pinned for CA aw regs.

The Eagle had a 16.5 inch barrel and a nice long receiver so it meets the 26inch minimum even with the stock removed.

Remember its not a thompson its a totally different animal.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Mach1 View Post
Well, you do have the most unique collection of firearms AJAX22. Nice find.
Thanks 69Mach1, I try

I'm really happy about this one. I've always liked old subguns, and I've wanted to get a semi auto copy for a long time. but I dislike the modern semi auto replicas because of the needlessly complicated closed bolt varieties are all we can get anymore.
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2008, 1:00 PM
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Sweet.

I really need to see your full collection next time you're back in the state.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2008, 1:03 PM
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I'm just curious. How did you get this while in another State. Buying them with your new ID's?
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2008, 1:06 PM
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thats what i call a loop-hole gun! i guess if you know the rules really good' you can find the ones that slip through the cracks. nice find.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2008, 1:15 PM
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Heh,

I've never had all of my collection together in one place, but if I ever do, I'll have to throw a calguns BBQ or something so everyone can come and see/play with them.

As far as how I get this stuff while I'm temporarily residing out of state, I never said I physically had it in hand (would be illegal in NYC) I just bought it, I didn't take possession of it. Its going to an FFL in CA.


And yeah, knowledge is power. There are a bunch of neat toys floating around out there that slipped between the cracks, its just a matter of figuring out what they are and then finding one.
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2008, 1:55 PM
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Seeing all of AJAXs collection would require several days worth of digging and driving.

You definitely have a taste for the curiously different, bro.

If I saw that gun elsewhere, I would think it's exactly something you would want.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2008, 4:05 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about

I just love stuff that makes me go ooooooooooooooo

oddball one off custom or rare and obscure.

although I think something like this has a bit of a universal appeal

you know it would follow you home too


Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Seeing all of AJAXs collection would require several days worth of digging and driving.

You definitely have a taste for the curiously different, bro.

If I saw that gun elsewhere, I would think it's exactly something you would want.
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Old 10-22-2008, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
Heh....

Well you guys are close (redcliff actually nailed it) It is the predecessor to the Spitfire called the Eagle, made by a different company but also an open bolt design. The only difference between the Eagle and the spitfire (aside from the name and manufacturer) is that the eagle has a machined front sight whereas the spitfire has a cast front site assembly. Because it was pre 68, and the company who manufactured it was out of business it was completely overlooked. And since there were only a few produced it wasn't worth the time or hassle for them.

Y'all are correct that the the Spitfire WAS determined to be a machine gun, all of them were declared machine guns and registered or surrendered. This however is NOT a Spitfire and has never been named by any ATF ruling. They could in theory issue a ruling now, but they would have to allow for registration as a machine gun and for $200 I'd get to own a 5-10K NFA registered MG.


And while these are exceedingly easy to convert to FA, (all open bolt guns really are) this one was one of the few which wasn't. (most were turned into MG's prior to the 86 ban)

Not a banned by name assault weapon, not a machine gun since it was made before 82... Just a badass semi auto open bolt .45 acp carbine.
I am kind of drooling right now...
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  #21  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:29 PM
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Nice tube-gun SMG in acceptably legal semi configuration.

Ugly, but they run just swell. Don't break anything.
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2008, 6:48 AM
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I will work hard at not breaking anything (parts are impossible to come by and the side effects are not legal)

on a separate note,
I've decided to name it 'Hobbes'
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2008, 7:11 AM
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AJAX- After seeing this, I had to literally register my jealousness as an assault attitude weapon with the dicks at the DOJ!!!!! VERY, VERY NICE!!!! And I dislike you immensely.

(Napoleon Dynamite):LUUUCKY!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2008, 8:00 AM
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Heh... here is some data I found on the Eagle (well some was taken from spitfire info and may not be 100% correct, I've edited out some bits which were not relevent to these but described individual guns)

Quote:
Eagle Gun Company, (NOT EAGLE ARMS) model Semi-Auto
in 45acp, featuring a 16.5" barrel, open bolt configuration with one
high capacity stick magazine, 30rnd. I have checked
ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide and this model is not
listed as a banned weapon. Furthure I have talked to ATF Firearms
Technology Division about this piece and this is what they told me:
"Eagle Gun Co. was located in Stratford, Connecticut, they were in
business from 1964 until 1968, this model had a recall notice." The
ATF agent asked me to test fire this, which I have, to make sure
that it did not go full auto by holding the trigger down. The agent
said: "the gun is not classified as (any other) or a machinegun as
it would not have cleared the NCIC if it were so"...I have had one
hell of a time trying to find this in any of my published gun books
to include the Blue Books various editions, Gun Traders various ed.,
Modern Gun Values, Guns Illustrated various ed., Gun Digest, and the
Shooters Bible various. Knowing what ATF has told me now, I figure
damn few of these were ever made and probably fewer survived the recall,
so I think we have a rare collectible here. The foregrip is cast alluminum
and is hollow, the wood stock is hardwood, not sure if it is walnut
The one thing I noted immediately it's not near as heavy as
the old Tommy Gun copies out there today, postal scale says 10# empty.
Quote:
It's bolt is similar but different to the Greasegun in that the bolt face was protruding about 2 inches from the body and you pulled the bolt back with your finger like the Greasegun.

the Greasegun Bolt M3A1 will drop into the receiver with no modifications at all.

The trigger system consists of the trigger, disconnector and sear. The disconnector has two jobs one it to actuate the sear into pulling it off the bolt second as the bole rides forward it bumps the top of the disconnector and it dislodges it from the sear which results in only getting off on shot. do not cut off the top portion of the disconnector as this would make the firearm run full auto.

This is one reason it was reclassified. In fact if you remove the trigger mechanism it would run full auto this is inherent to all open bolt firearms.
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Old 10-24-2008, 2:51 PM
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I found a pic of some other guys collection of these, Mine is almost identical to the one at the bottom.
Top to bottom:

1) Spitfire Carbine Full auto
2) Spitfire Carbine Semi Auto
3) Volunteer Carbine Semi Auto
4) Eagle Carbine Semi Auto
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:59 PM
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Was just thinking about this (obsessing might be a more appropriate term)

It should be on its way soon
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Old 10-30-2008, 1:23 PM
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...............
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Old 10-30-2008, 3:38 PM
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May 1st 1964 shotgun news add for the Eagle...

They were even cheaper than I'd thought.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:02 PM
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Found a few more pics of spitfire's... Mine is an Eagle so its not exactly the same, but it should have nearly identical internals.




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Old 11-01-2008, 12:27 AM
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I like the M1A1 Thompson replica

I'd love to own an open bolt Cobray semi one day.. of course, if I moved to a free state, I'd probably just opt for the auto

The open bolt guns have a really weird feel to them- the delay before firing. I've fired my uncle's C3 FA Uzi- pull-shhhaa-BANG!

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Old 11-01-2008, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
Found a few more pics of spitfire's... Mine is an Eagle so its not exactly the same, but it should have nearly identical internals.
If you're the fellow with the open bolt Voere .22 rifle, I can see that you like collecting the shadowy and nearly forgotten guns with the questionable virtues, like I do.

When I go to big shows, I'm always first in the door and quickly scanning the tables for the exceedingly rare birds that the seller usually has little information or understanding of. I keep a long list in my head of the kooky one-off guns of the '60s and '70s that existed before ATF 82-2 put an end to the shenanigans.
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Old 11-01-2008, 2:34 PM
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I don't have a voere.... (too rich for my blood right now) but I do have two ranger copies of the marlin 50 open bolt .22LR and a Gevarm export model open bolt.

I do like collecting the weird and obscure.... It comes from an immature tenancy to respond to the statement "you can't do that" with "Oh really?"

There are always interesting overlooked loopholes if you look hard enough
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Old 11-11-2008, 6:50 PM
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Its on its Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!
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Old 11-12-2008, 8:31 AM
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Very, very cool find my friend. The Thompson modernized for mass production
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Old 12-11-2008, 4:36 PM
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shushhhhhhh, a little birdie told me this is somewhere in the state of CA now.... be vewy vewy quiet..... maby we can chase down some photos of it
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Old 12-11-2008, 4:47 PM
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Are you selling these? I am confused?
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Old 12-11-2008, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxx View Post
Are you selling these? I am confused?
Lol,

No....

Its not for sale...


I paid for it, but I'm currently in NYC so I can't exactly grab an open bolt .45 carbine and bring it out here with me...

So.... It is staying in CA... I sold my interest in it to a friend for $1 who DROS'd it to himself.

when I return, if he is bored with it he might just sell it back to me at which point we would fill out the proper PPT paperwork to put it in my name.

untill then I can only admire it from afar.... knowing in my heart how freakishly cool it is.
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Old 12-11-2008, 6:40 PM
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So when are you expecting to come back to the Cali?
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Old 12-11-2008, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
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So when are you expecting to come back to the Cali?
about 3 years (well... possibly 2 and a bit)
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Old 12-11-2008, 9:43 PM
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My Grandpa had an Eagle Carbine. Looks just like yours and in as good a shape or better. That da**ed thing looked brand new. Grandma has it now that he's passed away and asked if I wanted to buy it (my family...only people I know who pass down family heirlooms by selling them). I think the price was going to be around $1K or so, but I turned it down. She still has it and I doubt it's going anywhere outside the family.

Supposedly they were made in very low numbers because the Eagle factory burned down shortly after they started making them. All of their records were lost and that might be why ATF never listed (this is speculation on my part). Don't know if that's true or not, but apparently that's what Grandpa had always told my dad. I don't remember him telling me that info, but I remember as a kid not being too much interested in the gun because "it's not really a machine gun". Makes me chuckle.

Nice find, Ajax.

-Jason
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