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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-13-2008, 10:29 PM
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Question M1A SOCOM II vs SCOUT

Which one is more versatile for CQB and precision shooting?
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2008, 10:42 PM
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An M1A for CQB is not as cool as it sounds. I had the SOCOM and sold it. I am an iron sights fan and the front blade on the socom is so damn thick it coveres a human sized target at about 250 yards. I wish I went with a scout originally.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:00 PM
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I own a SOCOM, get the Scout.

You also might want to search, since this has been done more times than I can count.
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:09 PM
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I understand that the scout mostly, (if not entirely), uses the same parts, (except the barrel), as a full size M1A whereas the Socom has proprietary parts due to its size. In .308 I wouldn't go smaller than a scout. Try to find someone who has a scout and a Socom. Try them out and decide for yourself. Personally I prefer the full size.
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Last edited by Cardinal Sin; 10-13-2008 at 11:54 PM..
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:46 PM
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I own a scout. The NM front sight is quite nice. Get a scout. Scout Scout Scout. Just drill it in your head like I did, and you will get one.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:25 AM
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Points to go with the Socom 16 or II:
.about 3 inches shorter overall makes it a good tactical rifle for clearing obstacles and doorways
.II has the rails which you could mount an optic, tac light, laser, and even a night vision camera to prove the guy actually had a gun
.rail on the scout and 16 are the same

Points not to go with the 16 or II:
.I personally hate the rails on the Socom II unless you ARE going to mount a bunch of stuff; they just tear up your hand after a few mags
.Tiny muzzle brake on 16 or II does NOTHING. It's really just for looks.
.16 and II Sights are terrible for precision shooting. They are just WIDE open. Suited best for shots at or below 150 yards
.The flip up butt plate is just silly. No way that could be comfortable

Reasons to go with the Scout:
.Muzzle brake actually works
.The extra 2 inches of barrel gives you a little better accuracy at distances out to 500 yards or so
.The rear sight ring is TINY! you really have to focus to line up the sights right which makes you WAY more accurate
.Also comes in camo

Reason not to go with either:
.I don't like the position of the optic rail. You need to find an optics with a LOT of eye relief or go with a red dot or similar which isn't going to give you the distance/magnification for longer shots.
.Expensive as hell! Where do they get off? It's a great gun but not for that price tag. More of a $1100 that a $1600 rifle.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2008, 6:39 AM
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Scout.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2008, 3:12 PM
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I'm in complete disagreement that the SOCOM brake doesn't work. It's pretty damned efficient.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2008, 4:33 PM
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More versatile = Scout, better CQB = SOCOM (but not by much), better precision = Scout. So...get the scout.

Just a few things to add...
-The scout no longer comes with a NM front sight.
-Agree, I think the muzzle break on the SOCOM works very well.
-If you don't like the break on the SOCOM, you can get the new Smith Vortex/CA muzzlebreak/cyl. lock, but you need to buy a new sight and can't use the Vortex.
-You can get the Smith CA muzzle break and it shortens the scout by about an inch. Their coast guard muzzle break shortens it by about .5" and really reduces felt recoil. I have both, but use the CA break.
-Ditch the forward rail mount - it sucks.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2008, 4:43 PM
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I would strongly suggest the Loaded model.
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  #11  
Old 10-14-2008, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlh95811 View Post
Points to go with the Socom 16 or II:
.about 3 inches shorter overall makes it a good tactical rifle for clearing obstacles and doorways
.II has the rails which you could mount an optic, tac light, laser, and even a night vision camera to prove the guy actually had a gun
.rail on the scout and 16 are the same

Points not to go with the 16 or II:
.I personally hate the rails on the Socom II unless you ARE going to mount a bunch of stuff; they just tear up your hand after a few mags
.Tiny muzzle brake on 16 or II does NOTHING. It's really just for looks.
.16 and II Sights are terrible for precision shooting. They are just WIDE open. Suited best for shots at or below 150 yards
.The flip up butt plate is just silly. No way that could be comfortable

Reasons to go with the Scout:
.Muzzle brake actually works
.The extra 2 inches of barrel gives you a little better accuracy at distances out to 500 yards or so
.The rear sight ring is TINY! you really have to focus to line up the sights right which makes you WAY more accurate
.Also comes in camo

Reason not to go with either:
.I don't like the position of the optic rail. You need to find an optics with a LOT of eye relief or go with a red dot or similar which isn't going to give you the distance/magnification for longer shots.
.Expensive as hell! Where do they get off? It's a great gun but not for that price tag. More of a $1100 that a $1600 rifle.
The rail is designed specifically for EER scopes or, so long as the eye relief is appropriate, a handgun scope which of course has similar relief. As mentioned the magnification on these is not particularly high, generally in the 2 to 8X for adjustable and 2, 4 or 6X for fixed. You can get higher but then you have this darned huge tube hanging off the front of the rifle. And of course ensuring the scope sits low is a challenge. Personally I like the set up but understand it is a bit of an aquired taste.

I'm picking up a Scout this weekend, am going with an ARMS rear sight and moderate (1.5 to 5X) scope. And yes, the thing should cost $1,100.00 - way too much $$$ @ $1,600.00

Last edited by dfletcher; 10-15-2008 at 9:41 PM..
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2008, 7:28 PM
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But seriously, when and why are you going to room clear with an M1A. Perminent hearing loss comes to mind and over penetration like a mofo also. The scout is cool because its a little shorter and is better for a brush gun but for the love of pez and all that is holy, someone tell me why an M1A for room clearing?
In my humble opinion that pretty much means squat,
M1A for CQB no no no
SCOUT for fun, yeah yeah yeah (done to the honeycomb song)
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  #13  
Old 10-14-2008, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenor View Post
I would strongly suggest the Loaded model.
A loaded with a SS barrel is an excellent choice.

You can always cut it down and make it a Scout - and you'd end up with a better barrel, too.
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:06 PM
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Checked the price of the ammo and became quite hesitant if I want to go this route: ammo -$$$, rifle - $$$$
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:10 PM
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Another plus for the scout is that you can have the ability to use USGI parts for the gas system, or get quality new production units from LRB or Smith Enterprise. The Socom's use a proprietary gas system that will not accept USGI parts.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:16 AM
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Sumo pretty much has it pegged. Heed his warning about the muzzle brakes. The stock muzzle brake on the Scout and M1A are really bad if you have to go prone on some loose dirt.

I don't care for the scout rail setup. If I were going to scope the rifle I'd get a ARMS mount and loose the rear site.

How could anybody own a gun that's called Socomm, operator, tactical, blah blah blah. It's just ghay.

A friend of mine won SMM3G a couple of times using a M1A and they had plenty of hoser stuff as well as long range.
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  #17  
Old 10-15-2008, 9:27 PM
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Is it easy and cheap to scope the Scout?
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:00 PM
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it's neither cheap nor easy to scope any of them.

They all require a dedicated scope mount, unless
1.) you use an extended relief scope or red-dot on a scout or socom
2.) you buy the VLTOR extended rail version

M1A scope mounts are about $150-250 for the ones that actually work (SEI, Sadlak, ARMS)
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
it's neither cheap nor easy to scope any of them.

They all require a dedicated scope mount, unless
1.) you use an extended relief scope or red-dot on a scout or socom
2.) you buy the VLTOR extended rail version

M1A scope mounts are about $150-250 for the ones that actually work (SEI, Sadlak, ARMS)
+ One.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
it's neither cheap nor easy to scope any of them.

They all require a dedicated scope mount, unless
1.) you use an extended relief scope or red-dot on a scout or socom
2.) you buy the VLTOR extended rail version

M1A scope mounts are about $150-250 for the ones that actually work (SEI, Sadlak, ARMS)
Money comes to money, I wonder why this rifle is sooo expensive?
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2008, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Roy View Post
Money comes to money, I wonder why this rifle is sooo expensive?
What rifle isn't expensive?

There are a lot of parts, a lot of forgings, a lot of work involved in making one.

Almost all guns are expensive. Better guns cost more.
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  #22  
Old 10-16-2008, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Roy View Post
Is it easy and cheap to scope the Scout?
It can be, but it's usally not. You can get a Springfield scope mount and a cheap scope. It will work, but don't expect it to hold zero. To make it a bit more confussing, not all Springfield receivers are the same either. What scope mount works on one receiver, may not work on another. Sadlak sells a kit ($5) to see if your receiver is within "spec". If not, they will custom fit a scope mount to your rifle (I think it's about $45 for the fitting).

Like uclaplinker said, go with Sadlak, Smith Enterprises or ARMS. A couple others to check out are GDI (works well with ACOGs) or the Bassett. The Bassett is cheap (about $100) and doesn't seem like it would work, but a lot of guys over at TFL really seem to like them and I have not heard of any problems holding zero.
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  #23  
Old 10-16-2008, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
What rifle isn't expensive?

There are a lot of parts, a lot of forgings, a lot of work involved in making one.

Almost all guns are expensive. Better guns cost more.
AR is cheaper though and I don't think it's significantly simpler.
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  #24  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:16 PM
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I'd go with the Scout. 18" is about the minimum you want to go for .308. I have two ARS FAL carbines with 16" barrels and that little DSA SA58 Lightweight Muzzle Brake, and they are brutal in terms of muzzle flash and noise. I think everyone on FAL Files and other places agrees 18" is the sweet spot for .308 carbines, and anything less is suboptimal. Thinking back, I wish I had opted to have those two STG58 kits vut down to 18" instead of 16". Live and learn.
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