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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 05-27-2016, 3:31 PM
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8 minute bike ride ftw. Also they are kid and dog friendly.
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  #122  
Old 05-27-2016, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Party?

Presuming no en banc ... The plaintiffs now get to schedule a lower Federal court trial - a couple months.

Then they hold the trial - a week or two, maybe.

Then the court issues a ruling. Months.

Then the loser appeals to 9th Circuit. More months, to accept/deny. Then new briefs - months. Then Oral arguments. Then a ruling - months.

Last cycle took 4 years. 3-4 years again looks probable.

I hope Don is grooming a replacement for himself, for when he retires. Lots of his cases will still be active.
and you guys wonder why you're not making any ground on your 2A rights

in the 3-4 years it takes to "maybe" get a resolution

wonder how many new laws will go into effect against gun owners while you're still fighting this one. Like you said, its a cycle, a cycle that continues to throw new laws at gun owners, making it a non-stop fight just to own a firearm

they're a lot better at playing the system than you think. You're outraged, IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL you say, yet, there it is
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  #123  
Old 05-28-2016, 1:10 PM
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Well....that was fun.

For the folks who came out, thanks!

For the folks who followed me home, thanks for leaving me a little bourbon and not molesting my pups!
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  #124  
Old 05-28-2016, 3:17 PM
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Well....that was fun.

For the folks who came out, thanks!

For the folks who followed me home, thanks for leaving me a little bourbon and not molesting my pups!
Yes. Thank you for hosting. A good time was had by all!
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  #125  
Old 07-10-2016, 9:03 PM
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Robert M. Loeb just made an appearance. That guy is a stone cold killer.
https://www.orrick.com/People/4/A/4/Robert-Loeb

He is one of the top appellate attorneys in the country. The county is planning on taking this to the Supreme Court.
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  #126  
Old 07-10-2016, 10:43 PM
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And who is funding the county on this?

I doubt Bob is either cheap or working pro bono.
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  #127  
Old 07-11-2016, 1:19 PM
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Honestly this is a pretty good Supreme Court case. The real problem with the AR 15 cases is there is a great chance we will lose them at the Supreme Court.
Especially now with Scalia gone. This is the type of case that the Supreme Court would have to say well sure if there is a right to own them then you can't ban all gun stores.
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  #128  
Old 07-11-2016, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Honestly this is a pretty good Supreme Court case. The real problem with the AR 15 cases is there is a great chance we will lose them at the Supreme Court.
Especially now with Scalia gone. This is the type of case that the Supreme Court would have to say well sure if there is a right to own them then you can't ban all gun stores.
Are you forgetting all those other cases where logic, the rule of law and every thing common sense was just thrown out the window? Obamacare legal because it is a tax has completely slipped your mind? The liberals on SCOTUS will do or say anything to rule the way they want. There is no shame, conscience, or regrets with these people.
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  #129  
Old 07-17-2016, 12:02 PM
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Are you forgetting all those other cases where logic, the rule of law and every thing common sense was just thrown out the window? Obamacare legal because it is a tax has completely slipped your mind?
Can there be any doubt, for example, that the minority in Heller wouldn't give the slightest consideration to following Heller vs DC?

The Heller minority would would throw the baby of stare decisis out with the bath water faster than Sotomayor could say 'settled law' in her confirmation hearing.
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  #130  
Old 07-17-2016, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero View Post
Can there be any doubt, for example, that the minority in Heller wouldn't give the slightest consideration to following Heller vs DC?

The Heller minority would would throw the baby of stare decisis out with the bath water faster than Sotomayor could say 'settled law' in her confirmation hearing.
The Ninth Circuit is the most overturned circuit for a reason but it does not like getting overturned all the time. If I was a betting and I am I would wager that this case gets overturned. But if the Ninth does it in a way that ignores Heller or logic and reason then it knows it will get overturned by the Supreme Court just like the Mass Supreme Court did in Caetono. There is one thing that the liberals on the Supreme Court hate more than the Second Amendment and that is having a lower court act like they do not have to obey the Supreme Court
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  #131  
Old 07-17-2016, 2:39 PM
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The Ninth Circuit is the most overturned circuit for a reason but it does not like getting overturned all the time. If I was a betting and I am I would wager that this case gets overturned. But if the Ninth does it in a way that ignores Heller or logic and reason then it knows it will get overturned by the Supreme Court just like the Mass Supreme Court did in Caetono. There is one thing that the liberals on the Supreme Court hate more than the Second Amendment and that is having a lower court act like they do not have to obey the Supreme Court
Yet they have repeatedly failed to act on many very good, ripe, well-argued and well-briefed cases with many lower courts begging and daring them to provide guidance.

A case comes to mind (what was that case?) where a CCA found that people have a 'right' to a perception of safety therefore common semi-auto rifles could be banned? Cert denied, as I recall.
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  #132  
Old 07-17-2016, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero View Post
Yet they have repeatedly failed to act on many very good, ripe, well-argued and well-briefed cases with many lower courts begging and daring them to provide guidance.

A case comes to mind (what was that case?) where a CCA found that people have a 'right' to a perception of safety therefore common semi-auto rifles could be banned? Cert denied, as I recall.
Freidman? Out of the Chicago suburb of Oak Parks (or something like that)? Yeah, SCOTUS not granting cert on that one (and overturning it) one was a travesty. But at least it didn't become the law of the land by SCOTUS affirming it.
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  #133  
Old 07-21-2016, 8:16 PM
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https://www.scribd.com/document/3189...xiera-Petition

the en banc petition go filed today
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  #134  
Old 07-21-2016, 9:51 PM
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War is peace, black is white ...
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JB now has until mid-October to act (or not) on bills sent to him. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #135  
Old 07-29-2016, 5:05 AM
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Filed order (DIARMUID F. O’SCANNLAIN, BARRY G. SILVERMAN and CARLOS T. BEA): Appellants are directed to file a response to the Petition for Rehearing or Rehearing En Banc, filed with this court on July 21, 2016. The response shall be filed within 21 days of the date of this order. Parties who are registered for Appellate ECF must file the response electronically without submission of paper copies. Parties who are not registered Appellate ECF filers must file the original response plus 50 paper copies. [10064766] (AF) [Entered: 07/27/2016 09:21 AM]
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  #136  
Old 08-08-2016, 5:15 PM
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*Subscribed.
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  #137  
Old 12-27-2016, 10:01 AM
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http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...7/13-17132.pdf
en banc it goes
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  #138  
Old 12-27-2016, 3:14 PM
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Again?!?

What fricking joke.
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  #139  
Old 12-27-2016, 6:17 PM
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Inauguration day can't come soon enough.
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  #140  
Old 12-27-2016, 8:10 PM
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Inauguration day can't come soon enough.
Agreed. I'm hoping that the new Supreme Court can send the 9th Circuit a message. There will be plenty of opportunities on this issue at this rate.
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  #141  
Old 12-27-2016, 8:23 PM
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Send a message, my *****. Send a firing squad. And by firing squad, I mean Trey Gowdy and some other Constitutionalists to set those bums straight on the law of the land.
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  #142  
Old 12-28-2016, 1:14 AM
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Again, the relevant law doesn't matter. The 9th Circus is devoted to killing liberty.

You go to the 9th and one way or another you lose.

So far as SCOTUS? Remember that Scalia appeared to be solid on the RKBA and with him aboard the SCOTUS was not slapping the 9th around - which means that replacing him isn't going to fix the issue. You need at least 2 Trump SCOTUS appointments in order to have great hope of SCOTUS fixing things.
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  #143  
Old 12-28-2016, 4:00 AM
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They just can't let a pro 2A decision stand. This now marks the 4th en banc by CA9 in 2A cases?
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  #144  
Old 12-28-2016, 8:50 AM
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That's it. Time for the Trump DoJ to crawl over every inch of these judges' lives and find something to remove them over. If they are going to allow their personal preferences to guide their choices over the rule of law and their oath to the Constitution it's time to pull them off the bench and replace them with those who will honor that oath. Additionally, these en-banc votes need to be public so that it can be identified if certain judges are engaging in a pattern or practice of partiality.

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  #145  
Old 12-28-2016, 8:55 AM
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They just can't let a pro 2A decision stand. This now marks the 4th en banc by CA9 in 2A cases?
En banc is exceptionally rare, unless it is a pro gun ruining in the 9th circuit; then it is garunteed.
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  #146  
Old 12-30-2016, 9:12 AM
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...and just like that, en banc is granted by the 9th. I guess we didn't see that coming
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  #147  
Old 12-30-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals will reconsider the legal merits of Alameda County ordinance that restricts where and how many gun stores can reside in unincorporated areas.

The court announced Tuesday that a case challenging Alameda County’s 1998 gun store location ordinance will be up for rehearing by a full panel the week of March 20 in San Francisco, and that a three-justice panel opinion issued in May should not be considered precedent.

The Ninth Circuit selects a only small fraction of the cases submitted to it for reconsideration before a full 11-judge panel. Cases are selected on what’s perceived to be of constitutional importance.
More at:
http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/2...gun-store-law/
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  #148  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:14 AM
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Perceived to be of Constitutional importance... Riiiiiiight. Because there's need to take it en banc if you think they got it right in the original ruling. Was this even submitted for en banc as the Merc implies? I was under the impression that this was another sua sponte instance - which should be "an even smaller fraction" - but when it comes to a right enshrined in the BoR, I guess we can expect it to be brought up every time if it rules in favor of the right instead of restriction...
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  #149  
Old 01-01-2017, 7:50 PM
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Inauguration day can't come soon enough.
Luckily a lot of justices on the 9th are getting old. If we get 8yrs of Trump there is a real chance of less bs from the 9th.
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  #150  
Old 01-01-2017, 9:10 PM
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About to get en banc'ed again. What a surprise. I'm sure that d-bag Thomas called for it.

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  #151  
Old 01-25-2017, 9:37 PM
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En banc oral argument scheduled for March 20

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/calendar...2022&year=2017
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  #152  
Old 03-07-2017, 5:05 PM
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En banc oral argument scheduled for March 20

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/calendar...2022&year=2017
Less than 2 weeks to go!
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  #153  
Old 03-07-2017, 6:43 PM
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Calguns meetup at the court?

Wear NRA or other pro-2A gear?
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  #154  
Old 03-07-2017, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
Calguns meetup at the court?

Wear NRA or other pro-2A gear?
I have a molon labe t shirt that I always wear when attending court. Think that or something else that let's people know what case you are there for.
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  #155  
Old 03-09-2017, 12:23 PM
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Business casual is preferred I think. We can generally tell which sides people are on based on with whom they congregate.
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  #156  
Old 03-09-2017, 12:51 PM
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Business casual is preferred I think. We can generally tell which sides people are on based on with whom they congregate.
Preferred by whom? Is a molon labe t shirt really going to away the decision either way?

At Peruta en banc there was a heavy LEO presence- yes it's a courthouse, but they brought in extra people and I think might have had more long guns present too.

Come for the discussion/to support our side. Don't expect any impact except the other side murmuring about the fervent gun nuts that come out for these things.
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  #157  
Old 03-09-2017, 3:07 PM
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Well, there are extremes of dress.

When I go to those things, I wear a suit. People think I'm a lawyer.

If someone come in all camo, that's the clip that will make the news - but the TV people won't bother to talk to him/her.

If folks come Dressed Like Everybody Else, there's nothing the TV drones can focus on. They completely miss the message "Dressed Like Everybody Else? They are like everybody else; nothing extreme here."
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JB now has until mid-October to act (or not) on bills sent to him. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #158  
Old 03-09-2017, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
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Preferred by whom? Is a molon labe t shirt really going to away the decision either way?
Court's are one of the ancient institutions of our society. They are VERY CONSERVATIVE in procedure. They met out justice. They expect and often DEMAND respect. Just search "judge lawyer inappropriate dressed" and you'll see PLENTY of examples.

IMO, "business casual" of a longsleeved white Oxford with tie is the WORST I'd wear in court, as an observer (vs as a party or witness).

Inside courtrooms are NOT the place to make political statements by your dress, esp if you are on the opposite side of the judges already. Why leave them with "a bad taste in their mouths" about 2nd A advocates when we'll probably be in front of them again in the future?
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  #159  
Old 03-09-2017, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Court's are one of the ancient institutions of our society. They are VERY CONSERVATIVE in procedure. They met out justice. They expect and often DEMAND respect. Just search "judge lawyer inappropriate dressed" and you'll see PLENTY of examples.

IMO, "business casual" of a longsleeved white Oxford with tie is the WORST I'd wear in court, as an observer (vs as a party or witness).

Inside courtrooms are NOT the place to make political statements by your dress, esp if you are on the opposite side of the judges already. Why leave them with "a bad taste in their mouths" about 2nd A advocates when we'll probably be in front of them again in the future?
Say you don't wear a provocative t shirt but don't dress up as an observer but stay silent/non provocative.

What's going to happen? The judge who was pro gun will decide if you're too slovenly to wear a tie he'll decide differently just to spite us? If a judge was on the fence, the sight of an untied collar will decide the case? And given the animus of the 9th, and our proven history of en banc courts in guns, you really think there's enough of a margin an unadorned collar will make the difference?

Or the court will grind to a halt, and a judge will order you ejected? Fined? Imprisoned? Lashed? For having the audacity to wear a striped collared shirt with a collar button undone while remaining silent as an observer, in the 3rd row?

Look, I respect you paladin, and if you have superstition or whatever- just tell me and ask me to respect that and you'll get a lot further. As is, it seems like you're asking me to take FUD as verifiable proven facts, which I reflexively reject. The evidence you cite is from a LAWYER. Darn right anytime I'm BEFORE a judge I'll dress to the nines. But there is no evidence I'm aware of, or has been presented to me, about doing anything as an observer short of Manson family behavior that will create a problem.
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Last edited by lowimpactuser; 03-10-2017 at 8:04 AM..
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Old 03-09-2017, 9:54 PM
CCWFacts CCWFacts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Inside courtrooms are NOT the place to make political statements by your dress, esp if you are on the opposite side of the judges already. Why leave them with "a bad taste in their mouths" about 2nd A advocates when we'll probably be in front of them again in the future?
Absolutely.

Come on, the only statement you want to make in a court is how much you respect the court's status. You need to dress like you're taking it seriously because it is serious.
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