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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 05-17-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
And JFK, for that matter (more left-ish, I think).

Not so sure about the political stance of USF any more; when I was an undergrad there, lots of the SFPD were USF grads, and the law school served many of those for career advancement. Expensive, though.

Apologies for dragging this off topic. I know I know better.
I am a solo practitioner and where I went really did not impact my career. I went to University of San Diego SOL which is a decent law school. However every month when I make my student loan payment I think about the full ride Thomas Jefferson offered me. I wish I had taken it. If you want to go to law school just to do CA firearms law then you are going to need to be working for yourself.

Remember Don went to San Jose State for college then unaccredited Lincoln at night while working full time as a machinist after leaving the Navy. There is no need to bog yourself down in debt if you want to get open your own shop.
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2016, 12:08 PM
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Congratulations on a win & a job well done, Don.
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  #43  
Old 05-17-2016, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
Well Drakes Barrel house might be a good option.
I definitely vote for Drakes, I'm a regular there. And since this is a San Leandro based case I think we should keep it local.
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  #44  
Old 05-17-2016, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
And JFK, for that matter (more left-ish, I think).

Not so sure about the political stance of USF any more; when I was an undergrad there, lots of the SFPD were USF grads, and the law school served many of those for career advancement. Expensive, though.

Apologies for dragging this off topic. I know I know better.
When were you there? I spent a few years wandering about the hilltop myself. The undergrad student body was (and, near as I can tell, continues to be) 99% pure granola, but the law school always tended to be more of a mixed bag.

Threadjack done.


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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I am a solo practitioner and where I went really did not impact my career. I went to University of San Diego SOL which is a decent law school. However every month when I make my student loan payment I think about the full ride Thomas Jefferson offered me. I wish I had taken it. If you want to go to law school just to do CA firearms law then you are going to need to be working for yourself.

Remember Don went to San Jose State for college then unaccredited Lincoln at night while working full time as a machinist after leaving the Navy. There is no need to bog yourself down in debt if you want to get open your own shop.
This entire post gives me so much hope. Or it would if I had read it 20 years ago.
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  #45  
Old 05-17-2016, 2:50 PM
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Does this ruling undermine the handgun roster.
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  #46  
Old 05-17-2016, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Proch View Post
Does this ruling undermine the handgun roster.
Not really. But every positive 2A ruling helps to build stronger support for cases that come later.
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  #47  
Old 05-17-2016, 3:13 PM
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I tried to resist it, but I have to.

"Look at CGF losing another case!

Wait... uh whut... oh. uh nevermind..."


On a more serious note I'm optimistic this will not go en-banc as it really does need to go back to the district court for trial or definitive motions first.

I look forward to Alameda County showing us which parcel one can open a gun store at...

-Gene
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  #48  
Old 05-17-2016, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I love how the county wants to make claims that gun stores attract crime. Which is absurd.

If we're going to effectively ban businesses that attract crime shouldn't places like bars and liquor stores be first on the list?
IANAL...but isn't it about time that we call the lies lies? Under the rules of procedure, if one side can show the other side lied, aren't our arguments deemed to be more persuasive (and give us the 50% + one grain of sand we need to prevail in a civil case??)
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  #49  
Old 05-17-2016, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Proch View Post
Does this ruling undermine the handgun roster.
This ruling is not even remotely related to the handgun roster.
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  #50  
Old 05-17-2016, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by thedrickel View Post
I definitely vote for Drakes, I'm a regular there. And since this is a San Leandro based case I think we should keep it local.
Tuesday? The 24th?
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  #51  
Old 05-17-2016, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by strongpoint View Post
This ruling is not even remotely related to the handgun roster.
I'm 12 and what is this?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-twe...d-what-is-this
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  #52  
Old 05-17-2016, 11:16 PM
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Tuesday? The 24th?
Time?
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  #53  
Old 05-18-2016, 6:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I love how the county wants to make claims that gun stores attract crime. Which is absurd.

If we're going to effectively ban businesses that attract crime shouldn't places like bars and liquor stores be first on the list?
Banks.
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  #54  
Old 05-18-2016, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I tried to resist it, but I have to.

"Look at CGF losing another case!

Wait... uh whut... oh. uh nevermind..."


On a more serious note I'm optimistic this will not go en-banc as it really does need to go back to the district court for trial or definitive motions first.

I look forward to Alameda County showing us which parcel one can open a gun store at...

-Gene
They'll have to allow:

Detached Residential - 100 Sq. Ft. - Preserving space for one car in a two car garage.
Commercial
Light Industrial
Industrial
Heavy Industrial


Watch 'em attempt to block:

Attached Residential - Condos/Townhomes/Apartments
Detached Residential with one car garage.
Structures in Recreational/Park zones.

...using some twisted logic.

^ and that's a hell of a lot of real state for those areas that have undergone redevelopment where the bias has been for high density attached homes oftentimes built on top of commercial units.

They'll try Gene, they'll try.

=8-)
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  #55  
Old 05-18-2016, 9:32 AM
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Time?
5ish? Maybe? After work would be good. There's a space by the bathrooms in the back that's pretty private - as long as a Warriors game isn't on...(I'll have to check the schedule).

This is tentative.
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  #56  
Old 05-18-2016, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by strongpoint View Post
This ruling is not even remotely related to the handgun roster.
Disagree. It's an arrow for the quiver.
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  #57  
Old 05-18-2016, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Whiskey_Sauer View Post
Disagree. It's an arrow for the quiver.
One that has zero direct relevance to the handgun roster.
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  #58  
Old 05-18-2016, 1:29 PM
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Maybe Friday the 27th at Drakes?

5ish?
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  #59  
Old 05-18-2016, 2:05 PM
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While this is a WONDERFUL result, the sad fact is that by next year if all of the anti-gun bills pass, there won't be anything TO SELL! The roster is shrinking daily, ALL rifles with a removable mag will be AW's, ammo purchases will need to be filmed and dros paper work done on them etc. etc. etc.
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  #60  
Old 05-18-2016, 2:13 PM
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I found it interesting that this ruling made the 2nd page of the WSJ but not a word from the LA Times. Almost like the Times doesn't want to report pro-2A news.
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  #61  
Old 05-18-2016, 2:18 PM
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Maybe Friday the 27th at Drakes?

5ish?
I can make that work.
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  #62  
Old 05-18-2016, 2:27 PM
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One that has zero direct relevance to the handgun roster.
Agreed BUT it gets admission on paper from the 9th that sales/purchase is an indivisible part of the 2A right... since Nordyke "settled" i don't know that we got that from them previously. If not, then that buttresses some arguments being made in Pena on that one issue. If the AG has already conceded that aspect in Pena then it is there waiting to be of use against a future challenger. Not a game changer for sure but one more brick gets laid in the wall we are building.
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  #63  
Old 05-18-2016, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I tried to resist it, but I have to.

"Look at CGF losing another case!

Wait... uh whut... oh. uh nevermind..."


On a more serious note I'm optimistic this will not go en-banc as it really does need to go back to the district court for trial or definitive motions first.

I look forward to Alameda County showing us which parcel one can open a gun store at...

-Gene
I agree with Hofmang/Gene, and I'm not a lawyer. I think that since it was remanded, it won't go en banc since it thereby asks the lower court to sober up and reconsider the case according to what we say the law requires.

I like that they rejected the "equal protection" argument. I fail to understand what the proximity of a gun dealer to a residence (or other property types, for that matter) has to do with anything.

At any rate, it's a small bit of good news.
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  #64  
Old 05-18-2016, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I am a solo practitioner and where I went really did not impact my career. I went to University of San Diego SOL which is a decent law school. However every month when I make my student loan payment I think about the full ride Thomas Jefferson offered me. I wish I had taken it. If you want to go to law school just to do CA firearms law then you are going to need to be working for yourself.

Remember Don went to San Jose State for college then unaccredited Lincoln at night while working full time as a machinist after leaving the Navy. There is no need to bog yourself down in debt if you want to get open your own shop.
I'm at TJSL and it's not a bad deal. They are giving excellent scholarships right now by the way. If you have a 3.0 and a good lsat you are basically getting a free ride. Even lower qualifications will still get you 1/2 off. Wish I was going in now. My loans are astronomical.
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  #65  
Old 05-18-2016, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I tried to resist it, but I have to.

"Look at CGF losing another case!

Wait... uh whut... oh. uh nevermind..."


On a more serious note I'm optimistic this will not go en-banc as it really does need to go back to the district court for trial or definitive motions first.

I look forward to Alameda County showing us which parcel one can open a gun store at...

-Gene
Whether this is in reference to CGF activity or Gene posting, I'll let the reader guess....



Congrats & thanks, CGF/Gene/etc.

But more seriously: what sickens me is how we celebrate this so-called "win." After 5 years of litigation, CA9 says we get to go to trial....

In case people forgot, we went from initial filing of a lawsuit to winning at SCOTUS in McDonald in 2 years!

Sorry to have to remind others how much the federal judges can make things suck for people who are trying to exercise their fundamental, enumerated RKBA that "shall not be infringed" that are protected (not established), by the 2nd A.

We need a new smilie (perhaps a mad one w/thumb down) that says "TWO YEARS!!!" (or maybe "FIVE YEARS!!!") rather than
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  #66  
Old 05-18-2016, 5:43 PM
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But more seriously: what sickens me is how we celebrate this so-called "win." After 5 years of litigation, CA9 says we get to go to trial....

In case people forgot, we went from initial filing of a lawsuit to winning at SCOTUS in McDonald in 2 years!

Sorry to have to remind others how much the federal judges can make things suck for people who are trying to exercise their fundamental, enumerated RKBA that "shall not be infringed" that are protected (not established), by the 2nd A.

We need a new smilie (perhaps a mad one w/thumb down) that says "TWO YEARS!!!" (or maybe "FIVE YEARS!!!") rather than
So do you celebrate the win of Caetano, or the "win" of caetano?
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  #67  
Old 05-18-2016, 5:56 PM
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So do you celebrate the win of Caetano, or the "win" of caetano?
Caetano was (1) a per curiam decision and (2) by SCOTUS. Big difference. (FWIW I think Caetano went from trial in 2012 to decision at SCOTUS in early 2016.)

I'm beginning to think that Caetano was a real "shot across the bow" for the federal CAs. I think after all the cert. denials, and the dissents in Friedman and Jackson, the federal CAs thought (like many here), Heller had become dead letter in less than 10 years....

Then, surprisingly, contra the antis, the Court said the law established by Heller is beyond the holding of Heller. I think the anti federal judges in the CAs with 2nd A cases reacted to Caetano like ants after a kid kicks their ant mound.

And now, with Trump being the presumptive Repub nominee and saying he will nominate SCOTUS justices like Scalia and Thomas, the anti judges are totally

Viva la Trump!
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  #68  
Old 05-18-2016, 6:22 PM
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I have been invited to discuss Teixeira v Alameda on Fox Business tomorrow. The show is Varney & Co. The segment will air the last 1/2 hour 11:30 - Noon ET. The show already did a favorable piece on this case yesterday. http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/48977...#sp=show-clips
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Old 05-18-2016, 7:09 PM
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And now, with Trump being the presumptive Repub nominee and saying he will nominate SCOTUS justices like Scalia and Thomas, the anti judges are totally

Viva la Trump!
KC says you're the modeling guru, but won't model for him.

Would you create a model for a trump victory or defeat and share it?
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Old 05-18-2016, 8:42 PM
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But more seriously: what sickens me is how we celebrate this so-called "win." After 5 years of litigation, CA9 says we get to go to trial....
This is a bigger win than that. We're going to trial or dispositive motions with the burden either heavy or very heavy on Alameda County to prove that there is evidence that the 500' rule does something other than limit new gun stores. We're pretty comfortable that the only thing we'll have to do is establish that there are no commercially zoned parcels that are not within 500' of one of the prohibited places. And Alameda County will be forced to help us do that by the discovery process.

Once we do that, then we're in the "almost strict scrutiny" land that the appellate decision requires of the lower court. The level of evidence in that level of scrutiny is really hard and also has the added benefit of not existing.

Our district court judge could still do it wrong, but we're now also likely to have the same panel review the next district court decision. But having an "in this case" binding precedent really does limit our district court judge to a very favorable set of analysis for us.

Trials are scary when the facts don't support you. As such, we're coming to like trials...

-Gene
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Last edited by hoffmang; 05-18-2016 at 8:44 PM.. Reason: Can't spell discovery
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  #71  
Old 05-18-2016, 9:24 PM
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KC says you're the modeling guru, but won't model for him.

Would you create a model for a trump victory or defeat and share it?
Not in this thread or forum. That would go to http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=385
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Old 05-18-2016, 9:33 PM
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We need a new smilie (perhaps a mad one w/thumb down) that says "TWO YEARS!!!" (or maybe "FIVE YEARS!!!") rather than


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Old 05-18-2016, 9:41 PM
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What.....
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:16 PM
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OK, Boys and Girls.

It's Drakes Barrel House in San Leandro. Friday, May 27. @5ish.

1933 Davis Street, Building 177
San Leandro, CA 94577

For those not familiar with the area, it's in the corner between The Walmart and Sports Authority. You can try to park back there, but it fills up fast.

for parking, your next best bet is in front of Sports Authority. Lock up your valuables before you even get into the parking lot... it's San Leandro... in front of a Walmart....

I'll have a tab at the bar....

.



.


.

.

(no....no I won't. Buy your own beer.)
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  #75  
Old 05-19-2016, 4:15 AM
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I have been invited to discuss Teixeira v Alameda on Fox Business tomorrow. The show is Varney & Co. The segment will air the last 1/2 hour 11:30 - Noon ET. The show already did a favorable piece on this case yesterday. http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/48977...#sp=show-clips
The spot on Varney & Co has been preempted by breaking news. Working to reschedule.
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  #76  
Old 05-19-2016, 8:01 AM
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OK, Boys and Girls.

It's Drakes Barrel House in San Leandro. Friday, May 27. @5ish.

1933 Davis Street, Building 177
San Leandro, CA 94577

For those not familiar with the area, it's in the corner between The Walmart and Sports Authority. You can try to park back there, but it fills up fast.

for parking, your next best bet is in front of Sports Authority. Lock up your valuables before you even get into the parking lot... it's San Leandro... in front of a Walmart....
If you guys are looking for alternatives, I grabbed a Reuben sandwich to go the other day at Harry's Hofbrau in San Leandro the other day and they had a security guard in their parking lot:
http://harryshofbrau.com/index.html

http://harryshofbrau.com/pages/locations.html
14900 East 14th Street
San Leandro, CA 94578
510 357 1707
11am-11pm Monday - Sunday

Plus, there's Ricky's Sports Theater & Grill in San Leandro . They host the Alameda Co NRA Member's Council meetings:
http://www.rickys.com/
15028 Hesperian Blvd.
San Leandro, CA 94578
(510) 317-0200

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Originally Posted by Lex Arma View Post
The spot on Varney & Co has been preempted by breaking news. Working to reschedule.
Thx for the update.
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  #77  
Old 05-19-2016, 8:16 AM
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This is a bigger win than that. We're going to trial or dispositive motions with the burden either heavy or very heavy on Alameda County to prove that there is evidence that the 500' rule does something other than limit new gun stores. We're pretty comfortable that the only thing we'll have to do is establish that there are no commercially zoned parcels that are not within 500' of one of the prohibited places. And Alameda County will be forced to help us do that by the discovery process.

Once we do that, then we're in the "almost strict scrutiny" land that the appellate decision requires of the lower court. The level of evidence in that level of scrutiny is really hard and also has the added benefit of not existing.

Our district court judge could still do it wrong, but we're now also likely to have the same panel review the next district court decision. But having an "in this case" binding precedent really does limit our district court judge to a very favorable set of analysis for us.

Trials are scary when the facts don't support you. As such, we're coming to like trials...

-Gene

The concern I have is that there currently are gun stores within ALCO, and clearly the county will point to them to show the court that there are areas that satisfy their zoning requirements. It could be enough to sway the judge hearing the case. (this is not sensitive info).

Where the county could be in trouble is if those existing gun shops are in violation of the 500 foot zoning ordinance, or if they received some sort of variance/exception.

If that is the case, and truly no brick and mortar firearms dealer is located 500 feet from disqualifying buildings then, there's a VERY strong likelihood of wining on the merits.

-Cee
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  #78  
Old 05-19-2016, 8:26 AM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
This is a bigger win than that. We're going to trial or dispositive motions with the burden either heavy or very heavy on Alameda County to prove that there is evidence that the 500' rule does something other than limit new gun stores. We're pretty comfortable that the only thing we'll have to do is establish that there are no commercially zoned parcels that are not within 500' of one of the prohibited places. And Alameda County will be forced to help us do that by the discovery process.

Once we do that, then we're in the "almost strict scrutiny" land that the appellate decision requires of the lower court. The level of evidence in that level of scrutiny is really hard and also has the added benefit of not existing.

Our district court judge could still do it wrong, but we're now also likely to have the same panel review the next district court decision. But having an "in this case" binding precedent really does limit our district court judge to a very favorable set of analysis for us.

Trials are scary when the facts don't support you. As such, we're coming to like trials...

-Gene
Given all of that, do you think there is any chance Alameda might just decide to settle? Change the ordinace, or grant the store is variance?
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  #79  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
If you guys are looking for alternatives, I grabbed a Reuben sandwich to go the other day at Harry's Hofbrau in San Leandro the other day and they had a security guard in their parking lot:
http://harryshofbrau.com/index.html

http://harryshofbrau.com/pages/locations.html
14900 East 14th Street
San Leandro, CA 94578
510 357 1707
11am-11pm Monday - Sunday

Plus, there's Ricky's Sports Theater & Grill in San Leandro . They host the Alameda Co NRA Member's Council meetings:
http://www.rickys.com/
15028 Hesperian Blvd.
San Leandro, CA 94578
(510) 317-0200



Thx for the update.
Let's stick with Drakes. They have about 15 beers on tap - that should work for most folks, and the seating is pretty communal.
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  #80  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:51 AM
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Let's stick with Drakes. They have about 15 beers on tap - that should work for most folks, and the seating is pretty communal.
Plus there's Costco across the street if we need to get lots of pizza.
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