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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:50 PM
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Default Domestic Violence; Fisher v Kealoha Deals With "Slight Touching"

This case is out of Hawaii and is now in the 9th circuit. Hawaii has a harassment statute where Fisher was convicted and it includes slight touching.

California has the misdemeanor jury instructions which state that ANY touching is battery so this could be a helpful case.

If you would like to donate funds, the attorney in this case suggested https://hellerfoundation.org/product/donation-2-2/ when I asked but he did not push for donations. Please donate anyway as these cases are extremely expensive and important.


http://michellawyers.com/fisher-v-kealoha/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 05-01-2016, 7:16 AM
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thanks for posting
I've been litigating this for several years alongside Don Wilkerson website here
http://www.allislandslaw.com/
In Hawaii any crime of violence permanently disarms for life unless you receive a governor's pardon. I'll update this thread when there is movement in this appeal.
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Old 05-05-2016, 7:40 PM
anthonyca anthonyca is offline
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I believe most people would be shocked at just how low the standard of crime of violence has fallen.
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Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:40 AM
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The only time you can touch her is if you're both naked and she's shouting: "Yes. Yes. Oh God. Yes."
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Old 05-06-2016, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Rossi357 View Post
The only time you can touch her is if you're both naked and she's shouting: "Yes. Yes. Oh God. Yes."
I'm thinking written signed contract and record everything, just to make sure.
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Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 05-06-2016, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
I'm thinking written signed contract and record everything, just to make sure.


Safety for all women ballot initiative for 2017. Consent to touch must be video recorded by a disinterested third party.
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:20 AM
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And you are guilty until proven otherwise.

I had a buddy go through a divorce. When his wife couldn't get him to sign a ridiculous property and alimony settlement which she had drawn up, and which was very much one sided and against public policy, she fabricated an assault charge and murder threat to leverage his butt towards the agreement. He had the immediate Restraining order filed, and has since lost all of his gun rights.....and nothing actually happened.

This kind of state sponsored disarmament and trampling of mens rights needs to stop, but with Hillary on the horizon, its only going to get worse.

I recommend to any young man who has a gun to install a full video system in the house and record every second of interaction with anyone who might fabricate a story to cause you to lose your freedom and rights...yes, it has come to that in the America of today....and we wonder why the taliban and Islam fights so hard to resist our justice system and culture!!!!

We must disenegage and reject this kind of culture or we will be more chained into slavery than any man has every been in our history.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
And you are guilty until proven otherwise.

I had a buddy go through a divorce. When his wife couldn't get him to sign a ridiculous property and alimony settlement which she had drawn up, and which was very much one sided and against public policy, she fabricated an assault charge and murder threat to leverage his butt towards the agreement. He had the immediate Restraining order filed, and has since lost all of his gun rights.....and nothing actually happened.

This kind of state sponsored disarmament and trampling of mens rights needs to stop, but with Hillary on the horizon, its only going to get worse.

I recommend to any young man who has a gun to install a full video system in the house and record every second of interaction with anyone who might fabricate a story to cause you to lose your freedom and rights...yes, it has come to that in the America of today....and we wonder why the taliban and Islam fights so hard to resist our justice system and culture!!!!

We must disenegage and reject this kind of culture or we will be more chained into slavery than any man has every been in our history.

True true....DV is commonly used as a weapon in divorce now. Unfortunately, this sort of crap is what the hang wringer, elitist Progressive DemocRATS remaking of the culture has brought us to. Anyone who can vote for that party is not right in the head. Liberalism is a mental illness.
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Old 05-06-2016, 2:14 PM
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Not a lawyer so maybe someone can help clarify...

So, he is convicted of harassment.

Harassment can include strikes, punches, kicks per the complaint.

Can anyone elaborate on what exactly he did to catch the harassment charge as I assume it can be any number of actions that are non-violent as well as violent?

Strikes, punches, and kicks most definitely can involve injury or threat of injury which seems like it would trigger the crime of violence portion that is causing the surrender of his firearms.

Are these items mutually exclusive in that if you get charged with harassment a crime of violence is not triggered? Or, do the harassing actions have elements that can trigger additional penalties under the crime of violence statute?

Not really making any judgement, just trying to understand what the original charge was about and why they may have reached the decision to have him surrender his firearms.
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Old 05-22-2016, 12:29 AM
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DV statute differs from the civil harassment statute, where one may get their guns back relatively quickly if you win the TRO or after a few years thereafter, whereas DV I believe is lifetime ban from firearm ownership. I turns me off to entering into a intimate relationship if it goes sour eventually.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2016, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
I believe most people would be shocked at just how low the standard of crime of violence has fallen.
Unless your name is Ross Mirkarimi.
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Old 06-28-2016, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
And you are guilty until proven otherwise.

I had a buddy go through a divorce. When his wife couldn't get him to sign a ridiculous property and alimony settlement which she had drawn up, and which was very much one sided and against public policy, she fabricated an assault charge and murder threat to leverage his butt towards the agreement. He had the immediate Restraining order filed, and has since lost all of his gun rights.....and nothing actually happened.

This kind of state sponsored disarmament and trampling of mens rights needs to stop, but with Hillary on the horizon, its only going to get worse.

I recommend to any young man who has a gun to install a full video system in the house and record every second of interaction with anyone who might fabricate a story to cause you to lose your freedom and rights...yes, it has come to that in the America of today....and we wonder why the taliban and Islam fights so hard to resist our justice system and culture!!!!

We must disenegage and reject this kind of culture or we will be more chained into slavery than any man has every been in our history.
My buddy that is going through his 2nd divorce was smart enough to have his phone constantly recording ( android device) when anywhere near his soon to be ex.

One night she goes crazy on him ... scratching face, punching, etc.. He's recording and keeps cool. He walks to end of driveway and calls 911. Cops show and do their thing. They come over and say "we've got to take you in". WTF. Cops is pissed at my buddy. Apparently, she beat the crap out of her self while cops where on way, bruises, scratches, etc.

Buddy produces phone recording. Saves to cloud and hands to cop. Cop listens. Cuffs his ex, and they charge her. Without proof, he was f'ed wrt to alimony, child support, seeing his kids, etc.

Be careful out there. Stay cool and cover yourself.
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Old 06-28-2016, 8:23 AM
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^ I'm glad that work for your buddy but in some states recording people without their permission may put you in trouble with the law.
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Old 06-28-2016, 9:03 AM
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Better not own a gun 'cause the FBI now records it thanks to the State of Hawaii. National gun registration has begun.
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sealocan View Post
^ I'm glad that work for your buddy but in some states recording people without their permission may put you in trouble with the law.
Agreed and he, technically, was being illegal in his recording. However, the realpolitik of it saved his ***. The risk/reward of his move makes it good play IMO.

What I didn't mention is that the cop heard it on scene and knew he'd been lied to by her. My buddy is now not going to jail. Cop is now pissed about being lied to but knows the recording is inadmissible at best. So, he goes to neighbor who saw a tiny piece of conflict. Coaches that guy on a statement consistent with the recording. Now public prosecutor goes after her for DV.

Twisted and I'm conflicted on the means/end of the story but realize that illegal recording can be rationalized in the same way that some rationalize illegal carry "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". Of course, the risk of illegal carry is dramatically higher than illegal recording.
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Old 07-02-2016, 6:09 PM
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Marriage is a sham. Temporary companionship is far safer financially and for litigation purposes.
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Old 08-12-2016, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
thanks for posting
I've been litigating this for several years alongside Don Wilkerson website here
http://www.allislandslaw.com/
In Hawaii any crime of violence permanently disarms for life unless you receive a governor's pardon. I'll update this thread when there is movement in this appeal.
How is this going?

Isn't there some kind of maxim about justice delayed is justice denied or something along those lines.

I can only imagine if I lagged on my customers such as the courts and government lag on us.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 08-12-2016, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
How is this going?

Isn't there some kind of maxim about justice delayed is justice denied or something along those lines.

I can only imagine if I lagged on my customers such as the courts and government lag on us.
absolutely no movement from the court since the last time you checked. I will post something when something happens.
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Old 08-16-2016, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nums View Post
Agreed and he, technically, was being illegal in his recording. However, the realpolitik of it saved his ***. The risk/reward of his move makes it good play IMO.

What I didn't mention is that the cop heard it on scene and knew he'd been lied to by her. My buddy is now not going to jail. Cop is now pissed about being lied to but knows the recording is inadmissible at best. So, he goes to neighbor who saw a tiny piece of conflict. Coaches that guy on a statement consistent with the recording. Now public prosecutor goes after her for DV.

Twisted and I'm conflicted on the means/end of the story but realize that illegal recording can be rationalized in the same way that some rationalize illegal carry "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". Of course, the risk of illegal carry is dramatically higher than illegal recording.
The other option is to walk up and say "I'm recording" and never stop.
Fortunately I've never been in this type of situation.
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Old 09-03-2016, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
absolutely no movement from the court since the last time you checked. I will post something when something happens.
Justice delayed is justice denied. Can anyone image if they were as slow and inefficient in anything inew life as the government?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 09-03-2016, 9:46 AM
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As my sister said, "When women don't get what they want, they become nuts." She should know.

A friend had an argument with his wife. They were married, both educated, two kids, etc. A few hours after the argument, she called police & said her husband hit her. When police arrived, she showed them a bruise on her arm that she received the day before when she slipped & fell in the kitchen. He spent five days in jail & $$$$ in legal fees before she admitted she fabricated the story. NO charges for her....they NEVER charge the wife or G/F for a false police report. He divorced her as soon as he got out of jail, but it's costing him a bundle - attorney fees, alimony, etc. & she's trying to get the house.

I've wisely broken it off with two women the past few years. One suddenly said "I frighten her" during a disagreement. I'm sure she regrets saying that after I told her "we're done" but I'm not going to risk jail for any lying broad with out-of-wack hormones...not worth my gun rights or my finances. I told her she can call or e-mail me any time but don't come within 5 miles of me.

Ten years ago, I was seeing a really nice woman whom I really respected. After a few weeks, we had sex, which she initiated. Later, she said "We had sex because you forced me." Yeah....a rape charge is just what I need....I said: "Goodbye." After a couple of years of calling, crying, begging, she gave up.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:29 AM
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Docket Text:
This case is being considered for the February 2017 Honolulu oral argument calendar. The exact date of your oral argument has not been determined at this time.
The following is a link to the upcoming court sessions: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...dates_2017.pdf.
Please review these upcoming dates immediately to determine if you have any conflicts with them. If you do have conflicts, please inform the Court within 3 days of this notice by sending a letter to the Court using CM/ECF (Type of Document: File Correspondence to Court; Subject: regarding availability for oral argument).
The Court discourages motions to continue after this 3-day period.
The clerk's office takes conflict dates into consideration in scheduling oral arguments but cannot guarantee that every request will be honored. Your case will be assigned to a calendar approximately 10 weeks before the scheduled oral argument date.
Note that your case will be set for hearing in due course if it is not assigned to this calendar.
In addition, if parties would like to discuss settlement before argument is scheduled, they should jointly request a referral to the mediation unit. Such a referral will postpone the calendaring of oral argument. All such requests must be made within 3 days of this notice by sending a letter to the Court using CM/ECF (Type of Document: File Correspondence to Court; Subject: request for mediation). Once the case is calendared, it is unlikely that the court will postpone argument for settlement discussions.[10181100] (AW)
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Old 11-03-2016, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
Marriage is a sham. Temporary companionship is far safer financially and for litigation purposes.
Really? I've been married 31 years and it doesn't seem like a sham to me. My folks were married 56 years. Anyone I think ever had a clue were married for many decades. What exactly do you base your opinion on? Would you advise you Daughter to "temporarily" spread her legs for someone? Seems like an odd perspective.
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Old 11-17-2016, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
I believe most people would be shocked at just how low the standard of crime of violence has fallen.
Soon it will sink to "hurt feelings" being included.
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Old 11-18-2016, 6:03 PM
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Soon it will sink to "hurt feelings" being included.
Domestic emotional violence
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Old 11-18-2016, 6:07 PM
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Eventually it will come down to:

He looked like he was thinking about hitting me.

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Old 11-19-2016, 1:55 AM
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DV will eventually be a hate crime.

But not until the next Democrat regime.
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Old 11-19-2016, 1:57 AM
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Nationally we have 4 more years.

In CA we're all just waiting for Newsome to drop the hammer.
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Old 11-19-2016, 6:00 AM
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DV will eventually be a hate crime.

But not until the next Democrat regime.
It is already prosecuted as a hate crime.
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Old 11-19-2016, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
Eventually it will come down to:

He looked like he was thinking about hitting me.

Actually it's already more along the lines of, "I thought he was going to cheat on me therefore I should be able to put him in jail."
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Old 12-05-2016, 1:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lhecker51 View Post
Soon it will sink to "hurt feelings" being included.

You all laugh but here in Cali all a judge needs to hear in order to grant a temporary restraining order is "Fear" as in "something happened" (looked at me funny, raised his voice) and now I fear him. That's it, judge signs off, you get served and lose your guns until after the trial - if your lucky. Problem is there is no way to prove you didn't scare them so guilty as charged and the TRO becomes perm.
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Old 12-05-2016, 8:08 AM
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You all laugh but here in Cali all a judge needs to hear in order to grant a temporary restraining order is "Fear" as in "something happened" (looked at me funny, raised his voice) and now I fear him. That's it, judge signs off, you get served and lose your guns until after the trial - if your lucky. Problem is there is no way to prove you didn't scare them so guilty as charged and the TRO becomes perm.
QFT. This happened to me twice with my ex (before I had any firearms, thank goodness). The second time the police report even stated (paraphrasing) "there's zero evidence that what was said is true and this whole 'story' sounds waaaay far fetched and deserves additional scrutiny by our detectives." Fortunately, in both instances the county DA came to their senses and dropped all charges (a miracle in itself), but in the interim I was stripped of my rights without anything approaching due process.

That's why Lautenberg is an utter crock of crap - it sounds good on the face like oh so many liberal propositions, it turns into a complete and total mess when placed into practice. Since then, the ex has multiple felony convictions and isn't so much of a problem anymore. But being stripped of your rights over merely being accused of something that no longer even requires a physical act? Bogus. Flies in the face of due process and presumption of innocence.
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Old 12-12-2016, 1:14 PM
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Notice of Oral Argument on Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 09:30 A.M. - Hawaii Bkcy Courtroom 250L - Honolulu HI.

View the Oral Argument Calendar for your case here.


14-16514 Kirk Fisher v. Louis Kealoha - Kirk Fisher appeals from the district court's summary judgment in his 42 U.S.C. § 1983 action arising from the City of Honolulu's denial of his application for a firearm permit based on his 1997 misdemeanor conviction for harassment. [1:11-cv-00589-ACK-BMK]
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/calendar...aseno=14-16514

Last edited by wolfwood; 12-12-2016 at 1:32 PM..
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:14 AM
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When will a lying ex spouse ever get prosecuted for doing this? This would be a great idea, then the lawyers and advocates that help in divorce cases will have to tell the client how bad that idea is if it backfires.
Taking away a person's tools of self defense is almost as bad as taking their freedom.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nums View Post
My buddy that is going through his 2nd divorce was smart enough to have his phone constantly recording ( android device) when anywhere near his soon to be ex.

One night she goes crazy on him ... scratching face, punching, etc.. He's recording and keeps cool. He walks to end of driveway and calls 911. Cops show and do their thing. They come over and say "we've got to take you in". WTF. Cops is pissed at my buddy. Apparently, she beat the crap out of her self while cops where on way, bruises, scratches, etc.

Buddy produces phone recording. Saves to cloud and hands to cop. Cop listens. Cuffs his ex, and they charge her. Without proof, he was f'ed wrt to alimony, child support, seeing his kids, etc.

Be careful out there. Stay cool and cover yourself.
Only problem is that your buddy could've been charged with eavesdropping in CA. Not only that but it could be thrown out as evidence in court. Based on the way the statute is written, if ALL parties in a conversation do not consent to an intentional recording that they expect other people to not hear then it's eavesdropping. It doesn't matter if it's just you and someone else in that conversation and it doesn't matter if it's in your own house.

Last edited by fhs8; 01-12-2017 at 10:35 AM..
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:24 AM
vairox vairox is offline
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"Fear" alone can trigger a gun violence restraining order and remove your property from your possession, but rape an unconscious victim, possess weapons of mass destruction, do a drive-by and it's completely deemed non-violent in California.
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Old 01-18-2017, 1:21 PM
surfgeorge surfgeorge is offline
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As an aside, the "Kealoha" in this case, Honolulu police chief Kealoha has been "forced" to early retirement due to ongoing federal investigations and possible indictment.

Retirement: HPD Chief Kealoha Finally Forced Out

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...orced-Out.aspx

Kealoha’s term…was also marked by a long string of news stories about illegal activity, abuse of power, spousal abuse and other indiscretions by HPD officers from among different ranks….

* * * * *
And this is the guy who has determined that you and I and every other applicant for CCW are unfit to exercise our right. And he's likely gonna get a $500,000 buyout of his remaining contract.
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Old 01-18-2017, 2:12 PM
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Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
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Too be absolutely safe, you need to wear restraints in the presence of all women.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:46 AM
surfgeorge surfgeorge is offline
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The terms of the "settlement" with federal-investigation-target chief Kealoha have been made public. I was wrong in my estimate of his cash "buyout", it is "only" $250,000. Plus he is "expected to receive about $150,000 a year from his pension in addition to other retirement benefits".

Only one police commissioner voted against the settlement, a former federal prosecutor, who said she believed the commission ought to have begun termination proceedings.

The next guy in line, acting interim chief, has his own problems as he was head of the division which investigated the case for which Kealoha is under federal investigation, and one cop from that division has already plead guilty to corruption charges in the case, and others are under investigation.

Lucky we live Hawaii! I should say, that if it were not for a federal investigation, and only dealt with on the local/state level, none of this would ever have seen the light of day.
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Old 01-29-2017, 1:59 PM
anthonyca anthonyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Notice of Oral Argument on Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 09:30 A.M. - Hawaii Bkcy Courtroom 250L - Honolulu HI.

View the Oral Argument Calendar for your case here.


14-16514 Kirk Fisher v. Louis Kealoha - Kirk Fisher appeals from the district court's summary judgment in his 42 U.S.C. § 1983 action arising from the City of Honolulu's denial of his application for a firearm permit based on his 1997 misdemeanor conviction for harassment. [1:11-cv-00589-ACK-BMK]
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/calendar...aseno=14-16514
Thanks for the update.
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Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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