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  #1  
Old 08-10-2008, 1:23 AM
Sal Sal is offline
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Default underwood M1 carbine with odd markings.

So i've come across a underwood M1 carbine with the main oddity being instead of a serial number it just has G.H.D.

The barrel says underwood 11-42 and has the bomb right behind the front sight. barrel band is marked SI.

Anyone go any info on what the serial not being present, with only a inspector mark?

If any more info is needed i can get any other markings etc.
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Old 08-10-2008, 5:33 AM
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How about a picture?
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Old 08-10-2008, 10:34 AM
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Post your question on the CMP site forum

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/default.asp
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:58 AM
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Are you sure the serial number isn't under the rear sight?
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:56 PM
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I'm sure, i've got a few other carbines, and the serial isnt in the normal spot if it even has one.

Under the rear sight it says underwood just like normal, but right below it where the number normally is it just says G.H.D.

Its pretty odd because i've never seen inspector marks like that on a carbine, none the less replacing the serial numbers spot...
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal View Post
I'm sure, i've got a few other carbines, and the serial isnt in the normal spot if it even has one.

Under the rear sight it says underwood just like normal, but right below it where the number normally is it just says G.H.D.

Its pretty odd because i've never seen inspector marks like that on a carbine, none the less replacing the serial numbers spot...
That is odd!

I know GHD has been an inspectors mark or rebuild mark on other USGI weapons, but one replacing the serial # is weird.

Maybe check this site and look around if you haven't yet? It seems as though some of those countries re-marked some of their Carbines.
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/

No sign a serial # was ever there?
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Last edited by icormba; 08-11-2008 at 12:18 AM..
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:39 AM
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yeah, its doesnt have any sign of any stamping there at all other than just the G.H.D.

very odd. I'll take some pictures of it soon.

It was setup as an M1a1 paratrooper when the person i got it from got it, but he replaced the stock with a standard stock to be able to bring it with him from arizona when he moved here. He kept both stocks, so i have the original m1a1 stock for it as well.

One other remarkable thing i've noticed is that the finish on the barrel is very rough, the tooling marks are quite deep and it looks alot rougher than any other barrel i've seen, without being marred up from transport etc. the finish is still pretty much fully intact on the barrel.
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Old 08-29-2008, 4:02 PM
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Old 08-29-2008, 4:33 PM
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thats really cool! It may be a one of a kind.
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Old 08-29-2008, 4:41 PM
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The "GHD" markings have been applied later. You can see in the photos that the serial number has been ground off and replaced by the 'GHD". Those are not original military markings. The font is not correct and the spacing clearly indicates a hand stamped "bubba" job.

It could be a problem as possessing a firearm with the serial numbers removed is a felony.

Since you obtained it from another person It could have been stolen. Or the previous foolish owner just didn't like them. Either way I would cut up the receiver and keep the rest as a parts kit. ASAP.


The "G.H.D." marking which appears on some U.S. weapons are the initials of Lt. Col. Guy H. Drewry. he worked as an military inspector for Colt, Smith & Wesson, Winchester and National Postal Meter between 1930 and 1957. Clearly not the case here.

Here is a photo of my S&W Victory model showing the correct G.H.D. proof markings.


Last edited by SVT-40; 08-29-2008 at 5:11 PM..
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Old 08-29-2008, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
The "GHD" markings have been applied later. You can see in the photos that the serial number has been ground off and replaced by the 'GHD". Those are not original military markings.
Sure does look that way, there's a slight ridge right there. Weird. Where'd you get it from?
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Old 08-29-2008, 7:44 PM
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Sal, I forwarded your question and a pic to a Garand expert friend of mine to see if he could shed some light on this. This is all I got from him:

In addition to their in house production, Underwood used receivers from four subcontractors as well as buying receivers from Inland and Winchester. There are observed Underwoods with three letter serial numbers which were produced as presentation carbines such as E.L.M.. If you look at the heel of the receiver you can see a faint latter "C" stamping. That is not a known Underwood sub contractor production code, but I am not a carbine expert by any stretch of the imagination so it could be a code I am not aware of.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:17 PM
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The guy i got it from had no clue, It was given to him by his aunt when his great uncle passed away along with quite a few different WW2 items. I'm pretty sure its not stolen, i'm fairly sure that its not done by someone to get rid of a serial, but it had some reason at the time it was done.
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Old 08-30-2008, 5:39 AM
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I can't tell from the picture, is there a mark on the bevel below the GHD?
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Old 08-30-2008, 7:42 AM
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Send a picture to Bruce Canfield. Author and carbine expert

E-mail: collect@brucecanfield.com

Web Site: http://www.brucecanfield.com/
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2008, 10:33 AM
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The mark on the bevel below where the serial number should be is a "flaming bomb" proof mark or what is left of one. Most Underwood carbines had this proof mark.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
The mark on the bevel below where the serial number should be is a "flaming bomb" proof mark or what is left of one. Most Underwood carbines had this proof mark.
True but it can also be:

blank
T - made by Intertype Corp.
W - made by Universal Winding Co.
S - made by United Shoe Co.
B - made by Singer Manufacturing Co.

Variations of these can have the letter inside the ordance bomb.

Carbine manufacturers used many sub-contractors and recieved parts from other government contracted carbine makers.

Also, even though the Ordnance Departments policy was no obliteration of markings, many recievers already marked by Underwood had both name and s/n ground off before the Winchester logo was applied. Traces of the Underwood name and s/n can sometimes be seen on these recievers. Still other Underwood recievers were not altered in any visible manner before being used by Winchester...

Source of this is the book War Baby by Larry L. Ruth...

Here is a link with some additional info

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/carbi....pl?read=80119

Last edited by 24thMED; 08-30-2008 at 1:01 PM..
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2008, 12:55 PM
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Here is a similar marked carbine. This ones spacing is uneven, just like the GHD one. You can see that it was re-shaped on the rear to remove the serial, but it was done alot cleaner. This one is a presentation carbine.

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Last edited by Sal; 08-31-2008 at 5:07 PM..
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Old 09-02-2008, 5:21 PM
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Just my two cents:

VERY rarely does Bubba do anything half that decent, and even when they do they do the ENTIRE thing half assed. Ground with an angle grinder and spray painted sort of thing. You have a relatively clean grinding with good prep and parkerizing afterward. At first thought I was thinking it may have been a professional full auto conversion after the ban with serial removed to hide original owner and possibly a GHD for the new owner or the gunsmith as a mark of his work, but the time frame you are talking about the person having it doesn't seem right though it could be. It may have been a factory altered carbine for any number of reasons - perhaps even a presentation piece to someone with those initials when they retired, experimental parts testing gun, etc.

I'd say keep it and the info of the guy you got it from. If it comes back a problem you can point them towards where it came from. From what I've heard, in the C&R world specifically they want to know where and from firearms and coming and going and who is doing shaddy work rather than nicking every person who might have had bad firearms pass through them.
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Old 09-19-2008, 7:59 PM
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Maybe someone was trying to make an imitation Presentation Carbine by
doing some sloppy grinding and stamping. You say it was originally in an
M1A1 stock? Underwood never made any M1A1's, just Inland.
In all honesty,does that stamping job look like what a factory would
put on a special presentation gun? J.M.H.O.
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