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  #1  
Old 07-17-2008, 10:08 AM
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Default 300 Win Mag VS .308

Looking into a rifle for hunting and wanted to get some feedback on which caliber I should go with???
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:12 AM
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Depend on what your hunting - for deer, pig, etc even elk and black bear a 308 is quite sufficient, cheaper and easier on your shoulder.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Depend on what your hunting - for deer, pig, etc even elk and black bear a 308 is quite sufficient, cheaper and easier on your shoulder.
Agreed, Also long action versus short action. Unless you plan on taking very long range shots (long for hunting) or are planing on hunting very large animals I would go with the .308.
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Old 07-17-2008, 3:52 PM
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Thumbs up .308 is my Favorite...

.300 win mag hurts the soul when it's fired It also tears up the ground in front of you Small trees will be severed by the blast Liberals will be able to track you down from the rapport. Way to many negatives here
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Old 07-17-2008, 4:09 PM
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308 is good enough for most anything in California unless long range elk is your thing get the 300 recoil is huge between the two
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Old 07-17-2008, 5:06 PM
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For anything you'll hunt in the continental United States, the 308 will handle with ease.
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Old 07-17-2008, 5:49 PM
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I agree with everyone else, BUT. With the 308 what you see is what you get. With the 300, if you are a handloader, you can load it down to 308 velocities to save on recoile and powder or up to rael beastwacker levels if you want. It's more (a lot) expensive to feed than the 308 as brass is scarce and expensive. But if cost is not a problem it's more virsital.
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Old 07-17-2008, 5:50 PM
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I own 3 rifles in .308 Win (Savage 10, Savage 10FP, and M1A) and everyone I know has at least one. With 150-165gr loads .308 is great in deer and pigs. By steping up to a premium bonded bullet or Barnes X you can easily take elk or black bear. I like .308 because I can shoot it all day without fatigue and ammo is reasonably priced. I handload and it is fairly economical when it comes to powder. Above all I can place the bullet where I need to for clean kills on game.

I have played around with my buddy's .300 Wby mag and find recoil to about at the limit of my tolerance even after I installed a Triple Magnum recoil pad on there. .300 Win Mag is a bit softer to shoot, but not much. Too often I see people with "too much" gun rather than not enough gun. I go to the range and see people shooting XX magnum rifles fire a few shots and put the rifle away. Ii have even seen people holding their shoulder after a couple shots.

If you are an experienced shooter .300 Win Mag will be more versatile for longer shots. It can also fire heavier bullets 180-220gr much more efficiently than .308.
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Old 07-17-2008, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
I agree with everyone else, BUT. With the 308 what you see is what you get. With the 300, if you are a handloader, you can load it down to 308 velocities to save on recoile and powder or up to rael beastwacker levels if you want. It's more (a lot) expensive to feed than the 308 as brass is scarce and expensive. But if cost is not a problem it's more virsital.
True, but I have never loaded 300 win mag. Don't you end up with a lot of excess case capacity? I would be interested to know how this affects accuracy. Also what is the standard twist rate for a 300 win mag? With this theory would'nt you be better off with a 30-06? Enlighten me, please.
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Old 07-17-2008, 6:47 PM
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I've shot deer, elk and black bear with a 308, you don't need anything more in the US unless you're planning on chasing grizzlies in the alders.
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Old 07-17-2008, 7:27 PM
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I have 50 DTC for terminators.

Anything short of that, I figure 308 is good enough for.
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Old 07-17-2008, 8:16 PM
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or you could get a 7mm rem mag people in my area swear by them i dont though i dont like the bandwagon i would get a 257 roberts
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Old 07-17-2008, 8:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerm14 View Post
I have never loaded 300 win mag. Don't you end up with a lot of excess case capacity?
You run a slower burning powder and put more of it into the case.
Net result is a full case of powder and more velocity.
That's the whole reason for magnum cartridges having so much more case capacity.
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Old 07-17-2008, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You run a slower burning powder and put more of it into the case.
Net result is a full case of powder and more velocity.
That's the whole reason for magnum cartridges having so much more case capacity.
That part I understand, but now you have magnum velocity which equals magnum kick. If you are down loading a 300 win mag to .308 velocity don't you have some issues?
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Old 07-17-2008, 8:44 PM
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If you are shooting at game that has "Up-Armored" with 1/2" steel plate, then definitely go for the 300WM as it will punch perfect 5/8" holes through the steel and still retain enough velocity to do significant damage on the other side. For the standard light armor deer and elk, 308 will do fine.
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Old 07-17-2008, 9:30 PM
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I was bored, most of this brass came from the single stage I borrowed from a friends dad. I dont have these guns, nor have have I shot most of these rounds.

Just a pic for this thread

From Left to Right
-300 Win Mag
-30-06
-257 Roberts
-30-30
-.223
-500 S&W
-.45ACP
-10mm
-9mm
-.22
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2008, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerm14 View Post
True, but I have never loaded 300 win mag. Don't you end up with a lot of excess case capacity? I would be interested to know how this affects accuracy. Also what is the standard twist rate for a 300 win mag? With this theory would'nt you be better off with a 30-06? Enlighten me, please.
Yes, You have a lot of excess capacity when you download anything. Accurate loads can be worked up if the rifle is capable of sound accuracy to start with. I think it is 1 in 10 but probably varies between manufacturers. Your allways better off with a 30-06, but that was not one of the options you asked about. I'm not the one to ask about the -06, I am to the thirty ought six as Jeff Cooper was to the .45ACP; 30-06 is the answer. What was the question? If you are not concerned about action length or economy I would go with the -06 every time. So much more can be done with it than the 308. The -06 is not overbore like the 300. In 300 winchester you are looking at 80+ grains of powder to get only moderatly more performance than the 30-06. Powder is 7000 grains to the pound. You get less than 100 loads from a pound with the 300 Win. That's one of the reasons I no longer own one. 308 takes 40-50 odd grains and -06 uses 50-60 some, depending on the powder. Cheep military ammo and brass has just about dried up for the -06, so the 308 is a more economical proposition.

Now if you want a really versital hunting rifle, with good availability of ammo and brass, that will knock the dog snot out of anything in the western hemespher, look into the 7mm Remington Magnum. It will shoot flatter over longer ranges than any of the above cartridges. Will give clean one shot kills on anything including Brown Bear with the right bullet and load. And can also be loaded to be an excellant varment and small game round. Ammo and brass are more plentifull than the .300 Win., but still a pricy proposition.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerm14 View Post
If you are down loading a 300 win mag to .308 velocity don't you have some issues?
Yes.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:40 PM
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30-06 or .308

is more then enough


Last edited by 1lostinspace; 07-17-2008 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 07-18-2008, 1:08 AM
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If you still can't decide and you reload get a 300 WSM. Best of both worlds, you get a short action gun and can almost match 300WM velocity with the lighter bullets, 165 to 180 grain boolits. It may be easier to download than the 300WM due to it being shorter and a bit less in capacity. I have a 308 and for most of the hunts available in CA it is enough. It's when you get to areas like Nevada, Utah and Colorado you'll start getting magnumitis. It seems that a 270Win's ballistics is just not enough for them high country wide open shot mulies.
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Old 07-18-2008, 6:52 AM
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Get both. 308 is a good hunting round and good target shooting round. Cheap easy to shoot and zillions of loads to choose from. However, the 300wm is an awesome gun to shoot. If your a hunter there is no animal is north america it can't handle. If your a target shooter its flat and very easy to reach out to 1000 yrds. Reloading it is cheap, not as cheap as a 308 but pretty inexpensive for the round. I recomend Hornady 208g with 70g rl22 for a great 1000yd target shooter. Oh and by the way the recoil is not that bad on the rifle. If you're shooting a sporter model then yes its got some oomph, however then its a hunting gun and the hunt is more important then the ouch. If you have a heavy target shooter, its not bad recoil at all if you know how to shoot a rifle. Just remember you will need more eye relief with the scope versus the 308. "Ask me how I know "

Last edited by lazuris; 07-18-2008 at 6:59 AM..
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Old 07-18-2008, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Yes, You have a lot of excess capacity when you download anything. Accurate loads can be worked up if the rifle is capable of sound accuracy to start with. I think it is 1 in 10 but probably varies between manufacturers. Your allways better off with a 30-06, but that was not one of the options you asked about. I'm not the one to ask about the -06, I am to the thirty ought six as Jeff Cooper was to the .45ACP; 30-06 is the answer. What was the question? If you are not concerned about action length or economy I would go with the -06 every time. So much more can be done with it than the 308. The -06 is not overbore like the 300. In 300 winchester you are looking at 80+ grains of powder to get only moderatly more performance than the 30-06. Powder is 7000 grains to the pound. You get less than 100 loads from a pound with the 300 Win. That's one of the reasons I no longer own one. 308 takes 40-50 odd grains and -06 uses 50-60 some, depending on the powder. Cheep military ammo and brass has just about dried up for the -06, so the 308 is a more economical proposition.

Now if you want a really versital hunting rifle, with good availability of ammo and brass, that will knock the dog snot out of anything in the western hemespher, look into the 7mm Remington Magnum. It will shoot flatter over longer ranges than any of the above cartridges. Will give clean one shot kills on anything including Brown Bear with the right bullet and load. And can also be loaded to be an excellant varment and small game round. Ammo and brass are more plentifull than the .300 Win., but still a pricy proposition.

The 7 Mag is more overbored than the 300 Mag since they have similar cases and the 300 will get better velocity with the same weight bullets.

300 Win
175 GR. @ 3047 fps and 61,800 PSI
175 GR. @ 3006 fps and 53,100 CUP

7 Mag
175 GR. @ 2758 fps and 56,200 PSI
175 GR. @ 2800 fps and 51,200 CUP

300WSM
175 @ 3085 fps and 61,700 PSI
175 @ 3009 fps and 63,400 PSI


All data from www.hodgdon.com

I have both the 7 Mag and the 300WSM so I'm not predjudiced against it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 7:58 AM
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Yes, You have a lot of excess capacity when you download anything. Accurate loads can be worked up if the rifle is capable of sound accuracy to start with. I think it is 1 in 10 but probably varies between manufacturers. Your allways better off with a 30-06, but that was not one of the options you asked about. I'm not the one to ask about the -06, I am to the thirty ought six as Jeff Cooper was to the .45ACP; 30-06 is the answer. What was the question? If you are not concerned about action length or economy I would go with the -06 every time. So much more can be done with it than the 308. The -06 is not overbore like the 300. Not true the 30-06 is very overbore, part of the reason the 308 was invented In 300 winchester you are looking at 80+ grains of powder to get only moderatly more performance than the 30-06. Powder is 7000 grains to the pound. You get less than 100 loads from a pound with the 300 Win. That's one of the reasons I no longer own one. 308 takes 40-50 odd grains and -06 uses 50-60 some, depending on the powder. Cheep military ammo and brass has just about dried up for the -06, so the 308 is a more economical proposition. What? Untrue 308 is almost impossible to find where 30-06 is everywhere.Now if you want a really versital hunting rifle, with good availability of ammo and brass, that will knock the dog snot out of anything in the western hemespher, look into the 7mm Remington Magnum.Agreed It will shoot flatter over longer ranges than any of the above cartridges. Will give clean one shot kills on anything including Brown Bear with the right bullet and load. And can also be loaded to be an excellant varment and small game round. Ammo and brass are more plentifull than the .300 Win., but still a pricy proposition. Buy a specific rifle for a specific task, if you are talking about the cost savings in 10 grains of powder above why suggest a 7MM magnum for varmints?[/QUOTE]
My all around hunting rifle is a model 700 in 300 winmag I had mine magnaported with a Kick eeze pad. it is less recoil than a 30-06 I tailored one load for it and thats it. Part of the reason is there is a Shepherd PE-1 hanging on it that requires a minimun and maximum velocity to work best, also I dont want questions when it comes to terminal equiptment in the field. I dont wonder if I grabbed the right box of ammo.

It dosent sound like much but 200 FPS at 400 yards is just the edge I needed to see to go with the 300 winmag. There is a reason all the expensive sniper rifles have a 300 win option. My rifle is very accurate and was right out of the box.

My Jeep rifles are a Model 99C in 308 good for anything in CA. Again one loading for all hunting rifles in 308. Keep it simple.
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Old 07-18-2008, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
300 Win
175 GR. @ 3047 fps and 61,800 PSI
175 GR. @ 3006 fps and 53,100 CUP

7 Mag
175 GR. @ 2758 fps and 56,200 PSI
175 GR. @ 2800 fps and 51,200 CUP

300WSM
175 @ 3085 fps and 61,700 PSI
175 @ 3009 fps and 63,400 PSI
Some people may not realize that 175gr 7mm bullets will fly flatter than 175gr 30 caliber bullets so don't discount the differences shown above so much.
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Old 07-18-2008, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Some people may not realize that 175gr 7mm bullets will fly flatter than 175gr 30 caliber bullets so don't discount the differences shown above so much.
There is a reason it is the most popular of the belted magnums. I like 30 caliber bullets because there are so many more to choose from or I would be writin about the 7MM being my go to gun. Yes I also have a 7MM it is a model 70.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:05 AM
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All true, BUT, sectional density and ballistic coefficient is better in the 7mm. Thus you get flatter trajectory out of the same weight bullet and it holds itís velocity and energy better. I didnít say the 7 Mag. Wasenít overbore, virtually all modern ďmagunumsĒ are. If you think about the ballistics you really have to go to 200 Grn. Or heavier bullets for the .300 to come into itís own. The 7 is optimal at around 170 grains. That is plenty for long range shots on North American game.

All else being equal, it seems to me that the 7mm Rem. Mag. Does not kick as hard with the same weight bullets as the .300 Win. Yes, I know the 300 is starting the bullet a little faster but it always seems to me that slight increase in velocity should not account for the major increase in felt recoil. It must be that my tolerance level lies somewhere between the two. The exception is my BAR, the gas system tames her right down to 308 felt recoil levels.

I think you might agree that the 175 Gr .308 diameter bullet you start at 3009 FPS in WSM will still be Elk medicine at 300 yards? Take a look at your ballistics tables and you will see that the 175 Gr .284 diameter bullet you started at 2800 FPS in the 7 Mag has the same velocity and energy at 300 yards as the .30 Cal. At 400 the seven is faster! And you are doing it with 10,000 PSI less pressure.

I donít have a dog in this fight either, I own both but do most of my hunting with a 6.5 X 55 mm. We can chase this rabbit around the bush forever. Itís just all personal preference but hopefully the discussion will serve to inform some of the newbies that there are a million angles and elements to this pursuit. Thatís what makes it fun.

Donít matter whether I got a 300, a 7 Mag, a 6.5, or a .220 Saturn, I got your six.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
The 7 Mag is more overbored than the 300 Mag since they have similar cases and the 300 will get better velocity with the same weight bullets.

300 Win
175 GR. @ 3047 fps and 61,800 PSI
175 GR. @ 3006 fps and 53,100 CUP

7 Mag
175 GR. @ 2758 fps and 56,200 PSI
175 GR. @ 2800 fps and 51,200 CUP

300WSM
175 @ 3085 fps and 61,700 PSI
175 @ 3009 fps and 63,400 PSI


All data from www.hodgdon.com

I have both the 7 Mag and the 300WSM so I'm not predjudiced against it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:14 PM
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If I were to go belted mag, it'd be a 7. More long range potential. But then again, thats my bag.
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